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rhino
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Re: Lack of Major planning in Adelaide...

#91 Post by rhino » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:43 pm

metalMONSTER wrote:The public will winge and bitch about everything without understanding what is involved, as they dont have the proffessional qualifications or experience to understand.
This is very true.
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Re: Lack of Major planning in Adelaide...

#92 Post by ozisnowman » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:57 pm

I can recall reading numerous times that the goverment is overburdened
with too many public servants many of which have tax payer funded cars

They mentioned about 7,000 to 9,000 too many public servants. Well
even if one is conservative and calculates that 7,000 public servants
earning $50,000 a year thats a massive $350 million a year being
wasted that could be going to funding, roads, hospitals, public
transport and the like.

$350 million (at least) over 20 years now thats scary... $7 billion +

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Re: Lack of Major planning in Adelaide...

#93 Post by rhino » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:03 pm

ozisnowman wrote:I can recall reading numerous times that the goverment is overburdened
with too many public servants many of which have tax payer funded cars
This is such a load of shite.
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Re: Lack of Major planning in Adelaide...

#94 Post by Brando » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:38 pm

metalMONSTER wrote:Who are any of you to criticise planning.
I don't pretend to be an expert in Urban planning. I am however studying Financial Planning, so I think I have a fair understanding of it's importance. Each client's needs vary and differ ie; risk tolerance, goals, investment time frame etc.
All I personally am saying is there seems to be no clear long term plan or vision for the state. If I can't map out how I intend to meet my client's Financial objectives in their S.O.A ( Statement of Advice) then how do I expect to attain their business and trust?

Goals and plans are thrown around, but just how they intend to achieve these goals remains vague.

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Re: Lack of Major planning in Adelaide...

#95 Post by Will » Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:25 pm

ozisnowman wrote:I can recall reading numerous times that the goverment is overburdened
with too many public servants many of which have tax payer funded cars

They mentioned about 7,000 to 9,000 too many public servants. Well
even if one is conservative and calculates that 7,000 public servants
earning $50,000 a year thats a massive $350 million a year being
wasted that could be going to funding, roads, hospitals, public
transport and the like.

$350 million (at least) over 20 years now thats scary... $7 billion +
If we get rid of the public service sector who will provide the public service?

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Re: Lack of Major planning in Adelaide...

#96 Post by JamesXander » Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:58 pm

Does anyone else feel like SA is getting a handout with all these defense contracts... I feel its bad when our state is relying on Government projects for the military to sustain our economy.

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Re: Lack of Major planning in Adelaide...

#97 Post by Bulldozer » Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:59 pm

ozisnowman wrote:I can recall reading numerous times that the goverment is overburdened
with too many public servants many of which have tax payer funded cars

They mentioned about 7,000 to 9,000 too many public servants. Well
even if one is conservative and calculates that 7,000 public servants
earning $50,000 a year thats a massive $350 million a year being
wasted that could be going to funding, roads, hospitals, public
transport and the like.

$350 million (at least) over 20 years now thats scary... $7 billion +
True, the Rann government has employed around 7,000 extra public servants. The SA public service is bloated and full of deadwood and someone really needs to crack the whip and thin it out. Get rid of tenure and make it so jobs have to be open to outside candidates to stop the organisational inbreeding. Stop the buck passing and no-can-do attitudes.

It's worse than $350 million a year though as it the total cost of employing someone is about 2x their salary. Thus the real cost is $700 million a year, which is a figure that's been reported. Now you know where all the extra GST revenue is going.

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Re: Lack of Major planning in Adelaide...

#98 Post by Cruise » Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:09 pm

Will wrote:
ozisnowman wrote:I can recall reading numerous times that the goverment is overburdened
with too many public servants many of which have tax payer funded cars

They mentioned about 7,000 to 9,000 too many public servants. Well
even if one is conservative and calculates that 7,000 public servants
earning $50,000 a year thats a massive $350 million a year being
wasted that could be going to funding, roads, hospitals, public
transport and the like.

$350 million (at least) over 20 years now thats scary... $7 billion +
If we get rid of the public service sector who will provide the public service?
I thought the same thing

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Re: Lack of Major planning in Adelaide...

#99 Post by Bulldozer » Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:36 pm

frank1 wrote:speaking of planning, why do people think that something as large as a desalinisation plant can be just built in a few weeks. This scale of project would take years of planning, not just location, but the environmental, social, economic imapcts of the entire area. This needs to be planned properly as it can't
just be a rushed 'quicky' as it would create long term effects. This also goes for any major infrastructure project.
I don't think anyone here thinks such a thing could be build in a few weeks, however to say it would take years is bollox - the Perth plant was designed and built quickly.

However, the point I was making is that if government was doing it's bloody job then back when Rann comissioned the Waterproofing Adelaide report they should have started planning for a desal plant. Back then they knew Adelaide didn't have enough water and that the problem was getting worse and that Adelaide has to reduce its dependence on the Murray. Instead they dismissed desalination outright and carped on about greenhouse gas and cost, despite it being the only realistic and feasible solution to ensure an adequate water supply. They didn't plan to make use of water recycling either. Instead they decided to go with bullshit like raising the price of water and making people install rainwater tanks, even though they stated it would have a negligible impact. Hell even this year Rann was laughing at MHS when he called for desal. He even dismissed water recycling.

Just what has the government been doing about securing an adequate water supply since they introduced restrictions? Sweet fuck all other than praying the Murray will flood, until the public let them know just how pissed they are and how dire the situation is.

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Re: Lack of Major planning in Adelaide...

#100 Post by frank1 » Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:12 pm

yeh your right, but i just think people are very short sighted in situations like water supply. They just get pissed off and want solutions e.g. putting in bores, but have no idea of the long term effects of the ground water and environment. I know cause ny dad works in ground water. i know the government should be doing more, but you can't rush these issues.

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Re: Lack of Major planning in Adelaide...

#101 Post by frank1 » Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:37 pm

There is alot of behind the scenes work that the general public don't realise. The current site for desal plant pt. stanvac is contaminated with petroleum chemicals and needs to be cleaned up first, hence 5 years. also the marj on the rail site needs to be cleaned up from contamination, hence 10 years to build hospital. the government is not as stupid as you think and don't want to be sued later.

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Re: Lack of Major planning in Adelaide...

#102 Post by rogue » Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:17 am

metalMONSTER wrote:Who are any of you to criticise planning.

What knowledge do you think that you have which no one else has.

As someone who has been involved with public projects I can tell you that there are many plans which exist that the public wouldnt know exist. What is the point of telling everyone what is going on. The public will winge and bitch about everything without understanding what is involved, as they dont have the proffessional qualifications or experience to understand. Much like majority of yourselves.
I wouldn't generalise people on here as knowing nothing about planning.

I for one was involved in a public transport investment programme worth nearly AU$30 billion. Yes billion.

This was based on a 5 year timetable and although not received positively by everyone, the vast majority supported the plan as being visionary, practical and a necessary piece of infrastructure investment for the future.

The public whinge here because whatever plan is being released, the benefits and positive effects it will have on people’s everyday lives are not sold properly to the public. Yes, there are always going to be the vocal minority in Adelaide, but if the government liaised comprehensively with the public instead of forcing something down our throats, the transparency would be greatly received and we would end up with a plan that is welcomed by most.

So, I think I’m well qualified to criticise certain aspects of planning.

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Re: Lack of Major planning in Adelaide...

#103 Post by Will » Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:18 am

Bulldozer wrote:
ozisnowman wrote:I can recall reading numerous times that the goverment is overburdened
with too many public servants many of which have tax payer funded cars

They mentioned about 7,000 to 9,000 too many public servants. Well
even if one is conservative and calculates that 7,000 public servants
earning $50,000 a year thats a massive $350 million a year being
wasted that could be going to funding, roads, hospitals, public
transport and the like.

$350 million (at least) over 20 years now thats scary... $7 billion +
True, the Rann government has employed around 7,000 extra public servants. The SA public service is bloated and full of deadwood and someone really needs to crack the whip and thin it out. Get rid of tenure and make it so jobs have to be open to outside candidates to stop the organisational inbreeding. Stop the buck passing and no-can-do attitudes.

It's worse than $350 million a year though as it the total cost of employing someone is about 2x their salary. Thus the real cost is $700 million a year, which is a figure that's been reported. Now you know where all the extra GST revenue is going.

If we get rid of the extra 7 000 public servants the Rann government has hired, who will provide the public service? Sure it's great to say things like, the state will save $700 million in salary costs. But who will provide the public service? The private sector?! I look forward to paying $10 000 next time I visit the hospital.

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Re: Lack of Major planning in Adelaide...

#104 Post by rhino » Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:33 pm

I agree with Will. The South ustralian Public Service was slashed in the 1990s, and the deadwood was basically gone when it was over.

A lot of the Public Servants employed since the Rann Govt took over are teachers, nurses and police.

Many of these teachers had been employed by the previous government as "permanent Contractors". They were treated like shit by the Department, sent anywhere teachers were needed without thought for the impact that might have on their families or their own health. The basic rule was that they could be sent anywhere within 45km of their home, then at the end of the term, when their families had just got a routine sorted out, they'd be sent somewhere else - they'd find out where during the holidays, and be given the choice of "take it or leave it, that's all we've got for you". On top of this they had to keep on top of all the changes to regulations that permanently employed staff never bothered with. The Department's (read Liberal Government's) attitude was "We're getting better teachers and it's costing us less". To their credit, one of the first things the Rann Govt did was give permanent employment to long term contract teachers.

One of the current reforms the Public Service is undergoing is Shared Services, which is going to reduce a heck of a lot of Administrative Staff, doing the same job in different areas when it could all be done by one person in a centralised place.

As for the comment "many of these public servants have taxpayer funded cars" - that is just false. On the other hand - quantify many. One or two percent? Departmental CEOs have Govt cars - and I don't have a problemn with that - if you want good people in the top jobs you have to pay them a good wage and give them conditions that they would receive doing a similar job in the provate sector. Remember, Deparmental CEOs are on 5-year performance contracts - they are not permanently employed. If you want to pay peanuts you'll get monkeys, and don't tell me there won't be a shitload of whinging about that! The other people who have taxpayer funded cars use them in their work, and are expected to drive to the worksite or sites straight from home. If they have to go via the office, the car stays in the compound - it doesn't go home. Also, unlike the private sector, Government Cars are only to be used for Government Business, not family business, and as such only by Government Employees can drive them. Sure, you might see one outside a school where Mum or Dad is dropping the kids off on her or his way to a worksite - so what? You won't see one loaded up with camping gear and fishing rods on the roof, and the family going off for the weekend, like the Priave Sector allows.
cheers,
Rhino

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#Article: Just do it, Adelaide

#105 Post by AG » Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:32 am

Just do it, Adelaide
CANDICE KELLER, ROB MALINAUSKAS
November 23, 2007 01:15am
ADELAIDE tolerates anti-progress attitudes that could hold back future generations, incoming SA Great chairman Nigel McBride has warned.

The prominent business leader and the state's next key public advocate said he would "refuse to listen to" further self-deprecation by South Australians about the state.

He urged people to stop "sweating the small stuff" and embrace development by taking a less conservative approach to such issues as infrastructure.

Mr McBride, who is chief executive partner with legal firm Minter-Ellison, predicts Adelaide will need 500,000 more people in five years to cope with the impending economic boom.

The wrong attitude is "holding us back". "We have tolerated a culture in South Australia where we don't challenge people for putting the state down, for feeling sorry for themselves, for accepting we can't be global competitors or for accepting that we will always lose people to Melbourne, Sydney, New York and London without a fight," he said.

"It's an attitude that says we don't want another 500,000 people here because we might have to queue up for something. The missing ingredient for our state is attitude and confidence."

Mr McBride also knocked the brand of South Australia, which he said was 10 to 15 years out of date. With the mining industry about to peak and the benefits of the ASC shipbuilding contract to kick in, Adelaide comfortably would enter a period of economic growth.

Mr McBride argued, however, SA would lose people needed to make this happen to such states as Western Australia and Queensland if our image did not improve dramatically.

"There's an urgency that people don't understand. There's no point nitpicking every decision that the Government does or doesn't make, let's just get on with it," he said.

"We're no longer a country town. We're a globally competitive city . . . but there's an inherent conservative culture which means the Government has to be conservative in its decision making.

"They can't take the radical position that they should be able to take because of the conservative population base."

His solution is to start a worldwide aggressive "guerilla-style" campaign, attracting ex-pat South Australians and potential workers to the state.

The campaign, similar to the "G'day U.S.A." program run by former SA premier John Olsen in the U.S., would feature events in four major target cities, likely Melbourne, Sydney, London and New York.

"We need to talk about why Adelaide isn't what it was 10 or 20 years ago and where we are going," Mr McBride said.

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