#Official Defence Thread

[SRW]

So the government held a cabinet session in Adelaide today. Announcing some ship building projects, mostly for Adelaide, but also in Melbourne and probably other shipyards.

So new frigates, corvettes and OPV(ocean patrol vessels).

However, in the mean time, there will still be lay offs at ASC. The work force will decline from around 2,500 to about the 1,000 mark.
Around 2020 things will bump up again(if those skilled workers decide to stick around twiddling their thumbs waiting for 5 years with no income). This is being sold as a benefit to South Australia for some reason by the federal government.

This is just a "softening us up" approach before they come clean on the submarines deal, with $50 billion worth of work being sent overseas, and not just any work, but work on one of the most strategically important assets this country has and will have for it's national defence/deterence.

Oh let's not forget they came in and threw "2 million dollars" at a few small businesses. Wowsers. 2 million dollars in the midst of a job crisis which could hit 10% unemployment levels.

Ah, and I forgot, they are ramping up NBN rollout, with about 400 jobs being created soon.

Ah yeh, Tony Abbot has saved South Australia, he will turn us into a power house just like he "hopes"..thousands of jobs gone..but a couple hundred are created, while over 1,000 more will be lost..but those 1,500+ shipbuilding workers will for some reason sit idle at home, frozen like Han Solo in Star Wars waiting to be defrosted.

You'd think a government which is facing anihilation in many key seats across the state, with an election coming soon, would actually come with something more substantial. But what this shows is how much contempt and disregard the federal Liberals have for this state and it's people.

Not too mention the ship building jobs are entirely contingent on the Liberals winning the next election

And keeping their promises, which they've had a bit of a problem with so far...

[Will]

We will miss out on the top prize of a new car, but at least we'll get a microwave to take home.

[Pistol]

ASC has WAY too many workers as it is so lay offs are inevitable.
When they won the contract to build the AWDs, they proposed a workforce of 600-800 to do so.
Behind schedule and their answer is to throw more people at the problem. There is approximately 2000 on that project alone.
Now I'm no mathematical genius but even I can work out that there is approximately 1200 people living on borrowed time.

[monotonehell]

Future Frigates program: Only a fraction of $39b shipbuilding budget will come to South Australia, defence industry body says

Only a small portion of the Federal Government's recent $39 billion promise for shipbuilding will actually come to South Australia, a leading defence industry body says.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott announced a new fleet of Navy ships would be built in Adelaide to replace the current ANZAC Class frigates, during a recent visit to the city. Mr Abbott said a frigate build would be brought forward to start in 2020, and result in 2,500 SA surface shipbuilding jobs. Contracts to build offshore combatant vessels (OCV) or "corvettes" would be brought forward to 2018.

Federal Government announced $39 billion Navy ship-build for Adelaide earlier this month Defence Teaming Australia says only $8 billion will be spent in SA Decision on who will win submarine build contract not expected until next year He said a competitive evaluation process for both projects would begin in October on the proviso that any bidders pledge to conduct the "major build in South Australia".

But Defence Teaming Australia predicted only about $8 billion out of the pledged $39 billion build would go towards the local build, after it conducted its own budget breakdown.

Chief executive Chris Burns said the rest of the money would go towards maintenance and sustainment works, which tend to be done interstate.
"Those ships will be home ported in Western Australia and New South Wales," Mr Burns said. I think they could have been more transparent to explain how the figure breaks down."
Mr Burns said the $8 billion would still help to boost job numbers. But he said the focus must now shift to securing submarine building in South Australia.

During his visit, Mr Abbott said there would be a "separate process" with regard to a fleet of 12 submarines that the Government promised to build in SA prior to the election, but subsequently threatened to send offshore once in power.

A decision on the submarines is not expected until next year.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-20/m ... sa/6710438

[serca]

ASC has WAY too many workers as it is so lay offs are inevitable.
When they won the contract to build the AWDs, they proposed a workforce of 600-800 to do so.
Behind schedule and their answer is to throw more people at the problem. There is approximately 2000 on that project alone.
Now I'm no mathematical genius but even I can work out that there is approximately 1200 people living on borrowed time.

Spot on. I know both white and blue collar workers there and they both say it's a flog. They spend literally half their time doing nothing but bugga all. No wonder it isn't feasible

I'm gonna say something that a miss universe would say but 39b WTF!!!??? maybe it's time world leaders realised it's not medieval times and peace is free ffs

[Vee]

Japanese delegation stops short of declaring ASC capable of building its submarines.

This ABC News article reports on the current visit by the Japanese Defence delegation to SA. Sadly, not much to inspire confidence in their bid involving significant local jobs in the build, supply chain.
Quite a contrast to the French and German bids!

The head of a Japanese defence delegation bidding to build Australia's next fleet of submarines has stopped short of saying whether he thought Adelaide's ASC shipyard was a suitable build site.

South Australian Premier Jay Weatherill yesterday met with the delegation.

He said Japan's lack of experience translating defence technology to other countries must be considered as part of its tender.

Mr Weatherill said he asked the delegation to address some criticisms aimed at the Japanese proposal, which included concerns that it had never transferred its defence technology to another country.

"Both France and Germany have done that before in other countries, whereas Japan hasn't done that in relation to defence equipment," he said.
"I think their answer really was that they have done that with other forms of industrial undertaking but not in the defence area."

"Lacked detail ... " is a very telling quote.

Members of Adelaide's defence industry said Wednesday's briefing to industry by the Japanese delegation lacked detail.

Peter Sexton from KPMG said local manufacturers were struggling to work out how they could get involved with any of the prospective partners.

"I didn't get a great sense that there's a lot of consideration really about how Adelaide manufacturing facilities would be used at this point in time," he said.

Mr Weatherill said he had asked the Japanese bidders to address how they would involve local suppliers in the build, and create confidence in the local supply chain.

"Certainly building confidence in the local supply chain is the task ahead for the Japanese bid," he said.

"The French and the Germans are very impressive, and they do put a persuasive case about how they'll involve the local supply chain.

ABCNews:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-27/j ... le/6728430

[rev]

The Japanese have no intention of building anything here.
They will take the $50 billion(including maintenance contracts), send us a few subs, subs that we wont be able to operate at full capability because we wont have any tech transfers let alone know the "secrets" of this type of submarine because the Japanese are not prepared to share that sensitive information..but they'll happily walk away with $50 billion in Australian tax payers money though. And Abbott will happily hand it over to them. All in the name of free trade and globalization.

If our only option for new subs is the Japanese ones, we may as well build more Collins Class submarines to replace the ageing ones we have, and spend the remainder of the money modifying and upgrading them. And we would still have billions left over.

[Wayno]

Well the cards may have fallen into place tonight. Christopher Pyne as the new Defence Minister. Interestingly, Mr X's recent show of strength may become his undoing. Politics is tricky game for sure...

from news.com.au

Christopher Pyne to be made Defence Minister in move to ‘deliver’ Future Submarines to SA

SOUTH Australia’s bid to build the Future Submarines has been given a major boost by the Liberal Party’s leadership change, with senior local MP Christopher Pyne set to become defence minister in a move sources insist will “deliver” the $50 billion build to the state.

SA MPs were critical in the overthrow of former Prime Minister Tony Abbott, with seven of the state’s 11 federal representatives breaking in favour of Malcolm Turnbull.

It is understood Assistant Education and Training Minister Senator Birmingham was a prime mover in the Turnbull sneak attack and is set for a major promotion as part of a forced reshuffle that may come as soon as Tuesday. He may also become Senate Deputy Leader.

Sources said the SA Senator would likely move into Cabinet in a reshuffle that would promote a suite of women including Michaelia Cash, Marise Payne and Kelly O’Dwyer.

It is understood other Abbott deserters from SA included Anne Ruston, Matt Williams, Sean Edwards, Andrew Southcott and Rowan Ramsey. Those who held loyal to the former prime minister were said to be assistant minister Jamie Briggs, Tony Pasin, David Fawcett and Cory Bernardi.

Another SA Liberal powerbroker said senators Birmingham and Ruston had been “long-term organisers” in the Turnbull camp, while Mr Pyne had only indicated a late willingness to change.

He is now set to become defence minister, with a major policy shift looming on submarines.

It is unclear how Mr Turnbull intends to overhaul the submarine procurement process, with a long-awaited Defence White Paper due to be released within weeks, but several senior SA Liberals were on Monday night insistent the leadership change would “deliver” the build to the state.

At the weekend it was reported Mr Abbott and Mr Andrews planned to deliver a white paper with just eight submarines, rather than 12. However, the state has already been promised a huge share of $40 billion of work on building new frigates and offshore patrol boats.

The Advertiser has been told Mr Andrews will be dumped from Cabinet.

Mr Briggs, the most senior SA MP to vote against Mr Turnbull, is expected to remain in the ministry.

Bullish Liberals were on Monday night talking up the about face on submarines as a move likely to nullify the growing threat posed by independent Senator Nick Xenophon’s plans to run Lower House candidates in all SA seats at next year’s federal election on the issue of submarines.

They are now increasingly confident of holding all their existing seats in SA, and threatening Labor frontbencher Kate Ellis in the inner-suburban seat of Adelaide.

Mr Abbott was in February dragged to the establishment of a “competitive evaluation process” for the construction of the nation’s fleet of future submarines amid unrest in SA over the program.

Senator Edwards claimed at the time that he had extracted from Mr Abbott a promise to hold an open tender for the submarines build in exchange for ongoing support of the existing leadership, but later admitted he was not certain of the exact language used in discussions.

Speculation a deal with Japan to build the $50 billion fleet offshore had contributed to a collapse in Coalition support in SA, with polls showing it as far as 60-40 behind Labor.

[rev]

Thank God he wasn't made defence minister. It would have been a disaster, if anyone thinks he would have delivered the subs project for SA they are dreaming.

The French company is holding a free public info session at the Convention center this weekend I think.
They'll detail their plans for building and maintaining the subs in Adelaide, and then take questions I think.


The Japanese are now apparently saying they want to build the subs in Australia. I guess they see all the opposition to their under the table deal with Abbott as not being feasable, especially now Abbott is gone.


Really, we shouldn't be building someone elses design, but should be partnering ASC with a foreign firm to design a new submarine that's designed for Australia's requirements. Not adapted, but designed specifically for our needs. Built at Osborne. Maintained at Osborne.

So bloody simple. It's in the bloody national interest, it's a positive for our national defence.

Why can't these muppet politicians do it right?

[SBD]

Why are new submarines seen as Employment or Industry policy? Why aren't they seen as Defence Capability where the driver for decision is "what does Defence need, and what is the best way to get it?" instead of "What industry and employment policy does South Australia want, and what might we build with it?

[Nathan]

Why are new submarines seen as Employment or Industry policy? Why aren't they seen as Defence Capability where the driver for decision is "what does Defence need, and what is the best way to get it?" instead of "What industry and employment policy does South Australia want, and what might we build with it?

Because it doesn't exist in a vacuum. Obviously a multi billion dollar build has economic impacts, and the that needs to be weighed up with the effect it has on meeting defence's needs.

[rhino]

From ABC News Online:

Push to build Australia's submarines in Adelaide on agenda when PM visits

Calls to build 12 new submarines in Adelaide will be a key item on the agenda when South Australian Premier Jay Weatherill meets with Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull on Wednesday.

Defence Industries Minister Martin Hamilton-Smith said despite the change in federal leadership, nothing had changed about the Commonwealth Government's plans to consider local, overseas and hybrid builds for Australia's next generation of submarines.

He said discussions with the Prime Minister would include a push for South Australia to become a shipbuilding hub.

"I think the nation can only afford to have one shipyard that builds ships," Mr Hamilton-Smith said.

"It can have other shipyards that build modules and that sustain ships but I think we can only have one major shipyard in the country and it must be Osborne, South Australia.

"I think we need to see the submarines, the frigates and the patrol vessels and even the pacific patrol vessels constructed in one location to ensure that we reduce that valley of death and keep that workforce engaged."

Mr Hamilton-Smith recently returned from a visit to Japan where he toured one of their Soryu class submarines.

He said he was extremely impressed with the Japanese design.

"I must say that the Japanese submarine, the German and French submarines are all very superior offerings but the Japanese have I think found new life in their bid. It's a very, very good submarine," he said.

"The Japanese have gone out of their way to engage with the State Government."

Mr Hamilton-Smith said he was one of the few Australian leaders who have been on a Japanese submarine, but the State Government remained "agnostic" over which country should win the contract, so long as they were built in Adelaide.

"I'm very confident that we can build 12 Japanese submarines in South Australia, as indeed I am that we can build 12 French or German submarines," he said.

[Vee]

Looks like Western Australia's State budget is going from bad to worse.
The mining boom has bust and their economy is in bad shape.

And WA is now eyeing off (trying to poach) SA's Defence industry contracts (submarines, shipbuilding) as mining jobs dwindle and revenues, royalties dry up.

via Yahoo:
https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/ ... nt-budget/

[Vee]

The plot thickens....

And will a "mid-2016 decision" be announced before ... or after ... the next Federal election?

Australian submarine fleet could come in $5bn cheaper – report

The Australian navy’s new submarine fleet could cost taxpayers at least $5bn less than had been expected, according to a report based on secret price estimates given to the defence department by three international competitors.

The confidential bids lodged by Germany, France and Japan offered a much lower cost of building an eight-submarine fleet in Adelaide than had been anticipated, newspaper the Australian reported.

The savings are in the range of $10bn to $12bn, when it was previously expected the project would cost about $20bn, based on a 12-boat fleet.

If the government decides to build 12 submarines instead of eight, the bidders estimate the cost will reach about $15bn - a potential $5bn saving.
The lower cost estimates are said to reflect the competition between bidders to secure the deal.

The government says it will choose the winning bidder by mid-2016 in what has been a politically heated process since the Coalition government took office.

The Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-ne ... per-report

[Wayno]

My prediction is SA will receive the lions share of submarine work with Vic getting the next largest slice. The remaining (wafer thin) slice will go to NSW.