Mount Barker Obahn

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ml69
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Mount Barker Obahn

#1 Post by ml69 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:16 am

Nathan wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:42 am
Should probably go in Visions though:
SA transport expert Luigi Rossi proposes $1bn superfast train from Adelaide to Mt Barker
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... 8869ba275b

A SUPERFAST rail link from Adelaide to Mt Barker would relieve travel woes for motorists, capitalise on tourism and prepare for population growth, according to a South Australian transport expert.

Former senior Transport Department bureaucrat Luigi Rossi, who has guided some of the state’s biggest infrastructure projects, has proposed a $1 billion fast rail connecting the city to the Hills, taking just 22 minutes and reaching a maximum speed of 160km/h.

Mr Rossi spoke at Mount Barker Council on Monday night about the renaissance of rail needed as the South Eastern Freeway neared its capacity.

“We see this as far more than a just a public transport project, we see this driving economic growth, housing affordability and lifestyle,” he said.

There were two options proposed for a rail link to Mt Barker. The first included using the existing rail corridor from Belair to Mt Barker and removing freight trains.

It would cost $50-$100 million with a travel time of 50 minutes. That cheapest option would be reliant on the Northern Freight Bypass being completed.

If it was upgraded to allow for tilting trains it would cost $250-$300 million, although speeds would still be restricted because of bends in the route.

The second and more beneficial option, according to Mr Rossi, was for a new rail corridor to deviate after Mitcham station and follow Brownhill Creek, including construction of viaducts.

The South Eastern Freeway’s median strip would then be used from Stirling right through to Mt Barker, with a total project cost estimated at $1 billion.

Engineer and project proponent Edwin Michell told the meeting: “This is a very achievable engineering project and well within the capability of what has been achieved already in Australia and SA”.

The council will consider funding a feasibility study for the project in the next two months.
Thinking about a long-term public transport solution for Mount Barker, wouldn't an Obahn busway be just as fast as rail but much more cost effective?

Let me explain. We already have a perfect route in place ... the South Eastern Freeway.

A Mount Barker Obahn could look something like this:

1) Mount Barker to Stirling (approx 20km):
Obahn track built into central grassed median strip of the SE Freeway. This would require no new bridges or underpasses (apart from pedestrian overpasses over the freeway to access the Obahn bus stations/stops).
5 new stations/stops to be built, with associated park and ride facilities.
- Bald Hills Road
- Mount Barker
- Hahndorf
- Bridgewater
- Stirling

2) Stirling to Glen Osmond (approx 9km):
This is the narrowest section of the SE Freeway, and it wouldn't be possible to run Obahn track here unless the Freeway was widened at great expense.
Hence I propose that Obahn buses travel on the normal freeway lanes as they currently do. However, on the city-bound lanes, I propose a new 2km section of "Bus Only" lane leading to the Toll Gate intersection so buses do not get caught in the regular morning traffic jam at this intersection. The "Bus Only" lane would not be required on the SE Freeway for Mt Barker-bound lanes.
There would be no stations/stops along this section of the route.

3) Glen Osmond to Fullarton/Greenhill Rd intersection (approx 3km):
A 3km long bus-only tunnel (which minimises tunnel width, and hence cost) would connect the SE Freeway with the Fullarton/Greenhill Rd intersection.
This would be the most expensive section of the route, but one which results in the greatest time saving for commuters. The tunnel would contain Obahn track to allow high speed running with safety. A 90kmh tunnel speed would allow this this section to be travelled in just over 2 minutes!
This section could be a Stage 2 project depending on available funding.

4) Fullarton/Greenhill Rd intersection to Wakefield Rd at CBD (approx 1.5km):
A new two-way bus-only connecting road running parallel with, and on the western side of Fullarton Rd. This section would have a top speed of 60kmh. This road would then exit onto Wakefield Rd (via bus-activated traffic lights) near where the Clipsal track meets Wakefield Rd.

Hence with the tunnel in place, you could have an Obahn bus running unimpeded at high-speed from Wakefield Rd all the way to Mt Barker, only stopping at one of the 5 purpose-built bus stations along the way. And it shouldn't cost a fortune either, particularly given the challenging terrain it needs to cover to get to Mt Barker.

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Re: Mount Barker Obahn

#2 Post by Norman » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:16 am

I like the idea of the bus-only tunnel from the city to Glen Osmond. There might be an issue with gradients at the Toll Gate end, but I'm not an expert on that.

The Bus Only lanes at the Toll Gate might be a bit tricky, there isn't a lot of space there as it is, so you would only have one commuter lane given that one is already used by trucks and the other would be used by buses.

I don't think the O-Bahn section between Stirling and Mount Barker is necessary, the buses already travel at a good speed in this section. You'd be better off widening the freeway and making one of the lanes a bus-only lane.

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Re: Mount Barker Obahn

#3 Post by rev » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:18 pm

Given the problems with heavy vehicles descending the SEF and the need for all the sand traps, where/how would obahn buses stop in an emergency?

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Re: Mount Barker Obahn

#4 Post by rubberman » Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:53 pm

I'm not clear what an O-Bahn would achieve. Can't the buses go just as fast along the freeway?

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Re: Mount Barker Obahn

#5 Post by ml69 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:29 am

rubberman wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:53 pm
I'm not clear what an O-Bahn would achieve. Can't the buses go just as fast along the freeway?
Speed + safety + passenger comfort because it's on a track.

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Re: Mount Barker Obahn

#6 Post by flaneur » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:25 pm

For an O'Bahn system to work it would require to have a segregated track with speed limits raised, on the return journey buses would struggle to keep a fast pace until they reached Crafers. Luigi Rossi's plan sounds interesting but short on depth as it raises a number of questions, talks about fast rail to Mitcham but what happens after Mitcham, keep in mind the current bus operator has the bulk of their peak hour morning fleet stationed in Adelaide until the pm peak hour. He also pointed out the plan depending on the rail freight owner ARTC is diverted to the Adelaide Hills Northern By-Pass which is 10 years away. Any fast rail plan must include further expansion of the system to Victor Harbor, Murray Bridge and Mt Gambier ( despite what the critics say ). There would have to be provision for a station at Handorf to cater for tourists and visitors to alleviate the growing problem of carparks. The shortest and quickest way from Mt Barker to Adelaide is down the SE Freeway into Glen Osmond Road, so a transit system would have to go above or below to avoid the current peak hour congestion. Another point that hasn't been raised is that there is a 98kph limit on Adelaide Metro rail lines

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Re: Mount Barker Obahn

#7 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:42 pm

The city-Glen Osmond Rd segment will be the most time saving segment with current buses. This is because it takes buses out of the most congested areas. Glen Osmond Rd might even be able to be widened to support bus lanes rather than O-Bahn track.

What I'm wondering is what is the ultimate speed limit on O-Bahn track? What's to stop the buses going 200 km/h on a Mount Barker O-Bahn? Obviously buses lack the power to do so at the moment and tyres aren't rated at that speed, but those aren't insurmountable problems. If the buses were trolleybuses, getting the required power to do this would be easy.

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Re: Mount Barker Obahn

#8 Post by Westside » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:57 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:42 pm
What I'm wondering is what is the ultimate speed limit on O-Bahn track? What's to stop the buses going 200 km/h on a Mount Barker O-Bahn?
The same reason cars can't travel at 200km/hr down the Freeway. Just because it has some guide wheels, doesn't make it safe enough to do the speeds that trains can do.
So the ultimate speed limit on the O-bahn would be 110 km/hr

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Re: Mount Barker Obahn

#9 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:55 pm

Westside wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:57 pm
1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:42 pm
What I'm wondering is what is the ultimate speed limit on O-Bahn track? What's to stop the buses going 200 km/h on a Mount Barker O-Bahn?
The same reason cars can't travel at 200km/hr down the Freeway. Just because it has some guide wheels, doesn't make it safe enough to do the speeds that trains can do.
So the ultimate speed limit on the O-bahn would be 110 km/hr
Trains don't even have guide wheels, they just rely on the wheel profile to keep them on the track. What's the actual problem with guide wheels?

Most car crashes are caused by the driver steering into something, which doesn't happen on an O-Bahn. There's little on the web on what would put an upper limit on O-Bahn speed. This page says 165 km/h, but there are no citations: http://actbus.net/forum/index.php?topic=2310.0

From the start of the freeway in Glen Osmond to the freeway exit for Mount Barker is 24.5 km. At 165 km/h it would take 9 minutes. From Glen Osmond to the Karoonda Hwy exit for Murray Bridge is 63.2 km. At 165 km/h it would take 23 minutes. This is a big improvement on the current bus trip and only for the cost of laying down O-Bahn guideway and faster buses.

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Re: Mount Barker Obahn

#10 Post by ml69 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:44 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:55 pm
Westside wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:57 pm
1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:42 pm
What I'm wondering is what is the ultimate speed limit on O-Bahn track? What's to stop the buses going 200 km/h on a Mount Barker O-Bahn?
The same reason cars can't travel at 200km/hr down the Freeway. Just because it has some guide wheels, doesn't make it safe enough to do the speeds that trains can do.
So the ultimate speed limit on the O-bahn would be 110 km/hr
Trains don't even have guide wheels, they just rely on the wheel profile to keep them on the track. What's the actual problem with guide wheels?

Most car crashes are caused by the driver steering into something, which doesn't happen on an O-Bahn. There's little on the web on what would put an upper limit on O-Bahn speed. This page says 165 km/h, but there are no citations: http://actbus.net/forum/index.php?topic=2310.0

From the start of the freeway in Glen Osmond to the freeway exit for Mount Barker is 24.5 km. At 165 km/h it would take 9 minutes. From Glen Osmond to the Karoonda Hwy exit for Murray Bridge is 63.2 km. At 165 km/h it would take 23 minutes. This is a big improvement on the current bus trip and only for the cost of laying down O-Bahn guideway and faster buses.
I think you'll find that buses actually have to stop at various destinations to pick up and drop off passengers, hence making your timings unrealistic.

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Re: Mount Barker Obahn

#11 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:42 pm

ml69 wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:44 pm
I think you'll find that buses actually have to stop at various destinations to pick up and drop off passengers, hence making your timings unrealistic.
The T840 route has two stops on the freeway between Glen Osmond and Mt Barker. Those stops are covered by other routes anyway, so they could be deleted from an express Mt Barker bus route. I'm just talking about the freeway segment, not Glen Osmond Rd, Adelaide CBD or Mt Barker.

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