The O-bahn

[Pat28]

Am i right to think that we are only keeping the OBahn because it is unique, a gimmick and tourist attraction? Am I right to say that the Obahn was only built because SA is rather stingy and even back in the middle of the eighties wanted AAA rating (even if it did not exist) along with another tourist attraction? And another thing isn't half of the OBahn cracking up becuase of high usage and cheap concrete?

[Somebody]

In 1984, the former State Transport Authority introduced a system wide speed limit of 90km/h after taking into consideration line clearances and track access by the public via entry points like level crossing mazes, it has nothing to do with the build quality of the track. You have to remember that the 90km/h limit was put in place back when track maintenance standards were better then what they are now. The Noarlunga line was built in stages between 1915 and 1978. Until 1975, the line was single track all the way to the then terminus of Lonsdale. When the track was duplicated, the pre existing line was also upgraded with new sleepers and ballast through out. Heavy 107lb per yard/53kg per metre rail was also used beyond Hallet Cove with the rest of the line using 94lb per yard/47kg per metre rail. By Australian rail standards, this is fairly heavy rail.

The current Noarlunga line rebuild program will see the line upgraded with concrete sleepers throughout, CWR (Continuously Welded Rail), extra ballast as well as some rail replacement using 50kg/m rail which will see the speed limit on the line raised to 110km/h.

Was Lonsdale ever a terminus? I was under the impression that Hallett Cove was the old terminus post-Willunga closure, followed by extension to a temporary Christie Downs terminus in 1976, then to Noarlunga Centre in 1978.

Would the "entry points" be relating to that most pedestrian level crossings in Adelaide are (still!) uncontrolled? I hope that most of these (particularly at station access points) will be upgraded during electrification - a combination of trains running frequently, no active protection and clueless pedestrians is a dangerous mix.

Adelaide's railways are mostly unfenced IIRC too - although even with fencing everywhere, as long as there is level crossings people can still access the rail corridor!

[monotonehell]

Why then, has no other city in the world (except 1), even those with low density sprawl, not put o'bahns everywhere?

Put simply; because trains are sexy.

It's far easier to sell a concept for a rail line to politicians and the public because of perceptions of permanency regarding a rail line compared to the infrastructure to upgrade a bus line. On top of this the technology involved in a guided busway is relatively unknown (even though it's far simpler than the technology required to run a train line). Even some people who live in Adelaide don't realise we have an OBahn. It can be quite a battle to get funding for an unknown concept, and in most cases such ideas never get past the first stage.

However, guided busways are not as dead a concept as you seem to think. There's over five guided busways in operation and another two or three planned in the UK alone. There's a guided busway in Japan. In fact there's around eleven guided busways Worldwide, five of which were built after 2000, and more planned. Not to mention all of the other BRT systems Worldwide that are unguided.


You should also note that standard bus lines are more common than trains in sprawl areas worldwide.

Because the o-bahn itself as a concept is a bit of a gimmick. The concept of a busway however is immensely popular right around the world. Just take brisbane they are planning to roll out heaps of them. Already there is a North-South one with a tunnel linking it under the city.

Advantage of paved busways over o-bahn is that broken down busses can be passed, doesn't require bus modification, can be used by emergency vehicles and taxis, etc.

So yeah the O-Bahn itself is a fantastic busway implementation, its just that the guided concrete tracks are a bit of a gimmick (introduced in Adelaide because of the need for a narrow corridor apparently) and arent used anywhere else.

Actually a guided busway negates most of the BRT objections that come about from poorly run BRT corridors and fears of collisions. The LA Orange line comes to mind. Which is an example of a poorly run project that light rail proponents often cite.

On most dedicated busways there's no room to pass a broken down bus, and the fact that you have oncoming bidirectional traffic in such a small corridor is a head on collision risk, that means a large reduction in maximum speed. The fact that an unguided busway can be used by regular vehicles is a danger that the corridor will be turned into an expressway by other vehicles, (as has happened on the El Monte in LA which opened as bus only but since became open to carpooling) a step backward in terms of PT. If a bus is blocking the OBahn the section that is blocked is closed and the buses diverted via the roads. Something a train can't do at all.

So far from being a gimmick the guides increase the speed, safety and integrity of the busway.

Why are most people in other cities more than happy to take a bus to a interchange, to connect to a fast, uninhibited, a/c, quiet, spacious, voice announcements (etc) train to the heart of the city, with quite sophisticated railway stations.

Why? Perhaps because they don't have another option? There's no reason why none of those facilities could be introduced on the OBahn, with the added advantage that the terminus of the OBahn doesn't need to be the terminus of the services. A terminating train station is the end of the ride. You can go no further without transferring to another service. While with the OBahn the service carries on closer to your destination. Unless you live in the train station?

Yes the o'bahn cost much less than a rail line to set up, but I guess very plain, diesel, cramped, non a/c buses would be cheaper to buy than spacious, a/c, voice announcements equipped - electric trains.

Lol, way to spin it.

When the original OBahn buses were purchased they did have A/c, but in the 1980s the only system that could be installed in a vehicle was evaporative. They have since been turned off after legionnaires' disease outbreaks and the added weight of the water that needs to be carried. Since then reverse cycle A/c has been reduced in bulk and the new buses are both cooled and heated.

A train is no less or more cramped than a bus in peak periods. Sure there's more room in the compartments, but that room is soon taken up with more passengers.

Anyway, from what Ive noticed over the years, 60%+ of all passengers in an average o'bahn bus will leave the bus at either Paradise or Modbury, rather than staying on past TTP to their bus stop in the suburbs, so yes the o'bahn is flexible, does it need to be that flexible - Not really.

On what do you base your judgment that it doesn't need to be flexible? By your estimation, 60% get off... therefore 40% of the passengers are continuing on? That's no small amount. On a train 100% get off - they have no choice. Do not underestimate the value of a single seat ride to attract people to PT.

Am i right to think that we are only keeping the OBahn because it is unique, a gimmick and tourist attraction? Am I right to say that the Obahn was only built because SA is rather stingy and even back in the middle of the eighties wanted AAA rating (even if it did not exist) along with another tourist attraction? And another thing isn't half of the OBahn cracking up becuase of high usage and cheap concrete?

I think you are wrong in thinking all those points.

It's not being kept because it's a gimmick, it's being kept because it works, and works well. The cost was expected to be the same as constructing a LRT, but turned out to be actually cheaper, so no it wasn't because of stinginess. Where have your heard anything about deterioration? The OBahn was constructed years ago of precast concrete segments mounted on crossbeams in turn mounted on deep piles, and I've not heard of any deterioration in the actual track despite the low maintenance levels that have also been enjoyed by the rail system.

[Norman]

However, once in the city, the stops are very full and cramped up, and buses have to swerve out of each other's way, not to mention other cars as well. Trains simply pull into the station, undergrounded in most cases already, open doors, passengers go in, doors close and it goes off. Then it gets to the interchange, buses are waiting across the platform and the passengers simply jump on and finish their journey. No more messy lines of buses, waiting to pull in, frustrating commuters.Instead of taking 15 minutes to reach the on-ramp in peak, it takes 2 minutes for the train to get there.

[monotonehell]

However, once in the city, the stops are very full and cramped up, and buses have to swerve out of each other's way, not to mention other cars as well. Trains simply pull into the station, undergrounded in most cases already, open doors, passengers go in, doors close and it goes off. Then it gets to the interchange, buses are waiting across the platform and the passengers simply jump on and finish their journey. No more messy lines of buses, waiting to pull in, frustrating commuters.Instead of taking 15 minutes to reach the on-ramp in peak, it takes 2 minutes for the train to get there.

Norman - look at the time tables. A train leaving the station at 5:10 gets to Kilburn (express to Islington) at 5:19 that's 9 minutes. A J1G leaves the CBD on Grefell Street F2 at 5:08 and arrives at Paradise (just a little further from the CBD than Kilburn) at 5:23, that's 15minutes. A difference of 6 minutes at peak period is hardly a huge delay, especially considering that the buses traverse the width of the CBD from city west to city east, while you have to make your own way to the train station.

You guys really make a big deal out of the non-difference between trains and buses. Let's apply your method of sensationalism to catching a train...

Once you leave work you have to walk all the way down to North Tce or stand in the middle of the road and fight your way onto a tram. If you manage to get to the train station, you have to walk down a long steep ramp and queue up with hundreds of people all trying to get through only a few open barriers. Or if you don't have a ticket you need to join the long queue at one of two ticket windows and buy a ticket. Then try to get through the barriers. Once you work out which platform your train will leave from you then need to work out what end of the platform your train is at. If you get on the wrong train you're off in the wrong direction completely. Once you've found your train you need to fight all the others clustered around the train's doors as they don't queue in any kind of orderly way. Then if you manage that try to find a seat.

[Norman]

That's not the case if the trains are through-running (which would have to occur for a train to Golden Grove) and run underground under Currie Street or Rundle Mall.

You also didn't include the extra time needed for the numerous TSRs on the train lines and the time it takes for the train to leave the yard.

I'm sorry I'm bias to rail, I grew up with it and I will keep pushing for more rail in Adelaide, be that light or heavy.

[monotonehell]

That's not the case if the trains are through-running (which would have to occur for a train to Golden Grove) and run underground under Currie Street or Rundle Mall.

You also didn't include the extra time needed for the numerous TSRs on the train lines and the time it takes for the train to leave the yard.

I'm sorry I'm bias to rail, I grew up with it and I will keep pushing for more rail in Adelaide, be that light or heavy.

Well if you want to add stuff we could run the OBahn underground and along Grenfell street like they do in other cities...

Apples with Apples Norman.

[Norman]

That's not the case if the trains are through-running (which would have to occur for a train to Golden Grove) and run underground under Currie Street or Rundle Mall.

You also didn't include the extra time needed for the numerous TSRs on the train lines and the time it takes for the train to leave the yard.

I'm sorry I'm bias to rail, I grew up with it and I will keep pushing for more rail in Adelaide, be that light or heavy.

Well if you want to add stuff we could run the OBahn underground and along Grenfell street like they do in other cities...

Apples with Apples Norman.

But then you'd still have the problems with buses lining up and congesting the track.

[monotonehell]

That's not the case if the trains are through-running (which would have to occur for a train to Golden Grove) and run underground under Currie Street or Rundle Mall.

You also didn't include the extra time needed for the numerous TSRs on the train lines and the time it takes for the train to leave the yard.

I'm sorry I'm bias to rail, I grew up with it and I will keep pushing for more rail in Adelaide, be that light or heavy.

Well if you want to add stuff we could run the OBahn underground and along Grenfell street like they do in other cities...

Apples with Apples Norman.

But then you'd still have the problems with buses lining up and congesting the track.

Explain?

[Norman]

Maybe tomorrow... it's late

[monotonehell]

More organs = more human!

http://www.messengernorth.com.au/articl ... _news.html

O-Bahn boom
15Jul08

A RISE in O-Bahn bus numbers has coincided with reports thousands more north-eastern residents are leaving their cars at home and turning to the local service as petrol prices continue to hit record highs.

Torrens Transit executive director Neil Smith said there had been a sharp increase in the number of people using the O-Bahn services since May, when fuel prices tipped $1.69 a litre; they have since soared as high as $1.74.

Mr Smith told the Leader Messenger the number of trips on the O-Bahn increased by 7.3 per cent this June to 702,000 thousand trips, compared to 654,000 trips June last year an increase of 48,000 trips.

"It has been growing every year but it generally has been growing at about 3-4 per cent now the growth rate has doubled," he said.

"I think the petrol issue is quite significant right now, especially for people travelling long trips."

Meantime, the State Government allocated $64.4 million in the 2008-09 State Budget to add 80 new buses to the metropolitan transport the next four years.

On Monday (July 14) it announced the first 20 buses would hit the road on July 28, five of which will service O-Bahn routes.

Increased pressure on O-Bahn services has also resulted in cases of overcrowding, particularly at busier stops.

Mr Smith said the stop near the Royal Adelaide Hospital, which was serviced by a number of O-Bahn buses and was one of the last stops into the city, was a particular problem area.

"There are buses on the O-Bahn that are over crowded but, in most cases, there's an alternative available very quickly after that," he said.

"But it is an issue that we're working on."

These buses would be used on a new 548 service from Greenwith to the city five times in the morning and five in the afternoon during peak times.

Four additional O-Bahn buses will run from Tea Tree Plaza to the city each morning and nine from the city in the afternoon.

Mr Smith said the additional services would allow Torrens Transit to keep up with the growth in commuters.

"We believe the allocation we've got is a good result," he said.

(If you don't get the Invader Zim reference - shame on you)

[Ho Really]

What happens when the O-bahn is overcrowded with buses? Is there potential for an accident?

Cheers

[Somebody]

The O-Bahn is far from capacity - supposedly it can take 18,000 people an hour, which is a few times an entire day's patronage. I hate it when people use weak and lame excuses to attack buses - like the buses not having air conditioning - have they ever been on a MAN SL202 or Scania L94UB on the O-Bahn? And how is having the potential for voice announcements a benefit for trains? Lol.

Buses should be about 20 seconds apart minimum. There are markers on the track so that the driver knows it is OK to go when there is nothing between his bus and the marker.

[muzzamo]

I suspect that 20 second frequency would be better than any metro in the world...

[Pat28]

Mind you the Obahn, would be a perfect place to run the SmartStop programme and on board LED announcers (which announce the next stop) would also work.