- A North-South Freeway going from Old Noarlunga to Wingfield and then to Salisbury and Port Wakefield Road
- A Hills Freeway going from Clapham to Walkerville
- A Modbury Freeway going from Walkerville, along the current O-Bahn route, before going along what is now McIntyre Road and eventually terminating at Salisbury East
- A North-Adelaide Connector going underground from the Walkerville Interchange (with the Modbury and Hills Freeways) BENEATH the PARKLANDS and terminating at a Hindmarsh Interchange on the Current Adelaide Entertainment Centre site
- The Hindmarsh Interchange would have been a freeway interchange between the North-South Freeway, the North Adelaide Connector and a Port Freeway
- The Port Freeway would have been a freeway travelling along the median strip of Port Road from the Hindmarsh Interchange to the Port Road-Old Port Road Junction
- A Foothills Expressway which would have travelled from Clapham to Darlington where it would have met with the North-South Freeway
- The South Eastern Freeway, which, instead of continuing to Mount Osmond, would have turned South West at Crafers and continued along the Upper Sturt Road Route until it reach the interchange with the Hills Freeway and the Foothills Expressway
- A Dry Creek Expressway which would have started at Port Adelaide, gone along the route where the Port River Epressway is and then gone along the route of Montague Road before terminating at Tea Tree Gully with the Modbury Freeway
- Finally, the MATS Plan would have had a train subway going from the current Adelaide Central Station, underneath King William Street and along the current tram corridor. It would have then met a split junction at Goodwood and split into two different suburban railway lines: The Noarlunga Railway Line and the Belair Railway Line which connects to the line which takes you to Melbourne. It is because of this that the Interstate Railway Station could have been situated underneath Victoria Square. Can you imagine it? Being an interstate passenger from Melbourne travelling on the railway line and as you find yourself within the inner suburbs (or the Torrens Lake if you're coming from Perth), you suddenly go underground with the CBD Buildings just in view and then the train stops in a huge underground railway station. You then take your luggage and walk up to ground level to find yourself in Victoria Square with the Market and Grote Street to your left, Wakefield Street and the Adelaide Hills to your right and the big office buildings in front of you. CAN YOU IMAGINE IT?! CAN YOU IMAGINE HOW GOOD IT WOULD BE??!! By the way, due to the fact that the railway line went to the city after Goodwood, it would have meant that the railway line from Goodwood to the Adelaide jail wouldn't exist and there would therefore be room for lots of development.
MATS Plan
- adam73837
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MATS Plan
Hi guys! I'm just curious to know what other people's opinions on the MATS Plan are. For those of you who don't know what it is, the MATS Plan would have consisted of:
I take back many of the things I said before 2010; particularly my anti-Rann rants. While I still maintain some of said opinions, I feel I could have been less arrogant. I also apologise to people I offended; while knowing I can't fully take much back.
Re: MATS Plan
I think we already have numerous threads and opinions about the MATS plan somewhere on this forum.
Re: MATS Plan
for me, i am very happy it was cancelled.
the destruction of hindmarsh, some eastern suburbs and the segregating affects of a concrete collar around the CBD are not fun to comprehend (look at Birmingham who are trying to right the wrongs of the Buchanan Report ideas).
I am not saying that elements may have worked and p/t improvements are not sorely needed, but mostly 1960's transport planning ideas have new fallen to the wayside and if Adelaide had been developed in accordance with the Mats Plan then you would adding a lot more images to the 'Before' images and bemoaning the 1960's
the destruction of hindmarsh, some eastern suburbs and the segregating affects of a concrete collar around the CBD are not fun to comprehend (look at Birmingham who are trying to right the wrongs of the Buchanan Report ideas).
I am not saying that elements may have worked and p/t improvements are not sorely needed, but mostly 1960's transport planning ideas have new fallen to the wayside and if Adelaide had been developed in accordance with the Mats Plan then you would adding a lot more images to the 'Before' images and bemoaning the 1960's
- monotonehell
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Re: MATS Plan
Adelaide would certainly be a different place.
It was probably a good thing that the MATS plan was shelved. We avoided all the negative effects of a 1950's idea of a freeway system that other cities have experienced and are now trying to correct. It's only now that we're experiencing congestion on our surface road system, so we do have a problem now, but we have the opportunity to learn from others' mistakes.
Freeways influence land use more than even rail lines. One of the observations is that demand seems to keep up with supply of freeway capacity. Cities with freeways are trying to work out how to keep demand in check with things like carpool lanes, PT priority lanes and etc. It's only in the late 1990s that Adelaide lost the title of a 20 minute city. So the problem has only surfaced in the past few years, combined with things like the expected rise in fuel costs and the whole climate change thing, we're in a good position to do something innovative to solve the problem.
The catch is we must do something NOW.
I suggest an OBahn in everyone's back yard!
It was probably a good thing that the MATS plan was shelved. We avoided all the negative effects of a 1950's idea of a freeway system that other cities have experienced and are now trying to correct. It's only now that we're experiencing congestion on our surface road system, so we do have a problem now, but we have the opportunity to learn from others' mistakes.
Freeways influence land use more than even rail lines. One of the observations is that demand seems to keep up with supply of freeway capacity. Cities with freeways are trying to work out how to keep demand in check with things like carpool lanes, PT priority lanes and etc. It's only in the late 1990s that Adelaide lost the title of a 20 minute city. So the problem has only surfaced in the past few years, combined with things like the expected rise in fuel costs and the whole climate change thing, we're in a good position to do something innovative to solve the problem.
The catch is we must do something NOW.
I suggest an OBahn in everyone's back yard!
Exit on the right in the direction of travel.
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Re: MATS Plan
It is all very well for Dunstan to have shelved the MATS plan - the negatives as pointed out by posters here were real.
However, the big mistake he made, and so did successive govermnents of both sides was to just ignore the problem. Instead of coming up with 'something else' as monotone suggests, they did nothing.
As a result of this head in sand approach, we now have clogged transport systems, and anything we do do will take more money and aggravation to fix. (For example, if we had done the South Road grade separations twenty years ago, the amount of traffic to be diverted would have been half as much as today, and people could have taken alternative routes more easily).
Quite frankly while I agree that freeways can divide urban landscapes, clogged roads that mean hours and hours to get from Tonsley to Elizabeth end up being just as divisive. A manufacturer wishing to set up in Adelaide would need his/her head read. It is almost quicker to fly a part from Melbourne to Adelaide CBD than it is to drive along South Road in peak hour to the same place.
Even if the freeways had been scrapped and substituted with busways or tramways, the people moving capacity would have been there.
The pity of it all is that forty years after the MATS Plan, no Government in this State, either Lib or Lab has produced an alternative plan.
What are we paying those folks on North Terrace for?
However, the big mistake he made, and so did successive govermnents of both sides was to just ignore the problem. Instead of coming up with 'something else' as monotone suggests, they did nothing.
As a result of this head in sand approach, we now have clogged transport systems, and anything we do do will take more money and aggravation to fix. (For example, if we had done the South Road grade separations twenty years ago, the amount of traffic to be diverted would have been half as much as today, and people could have taken alternative routes more easily).
Quite frankly while I agree that freeways can divide urban landscapes, clogged roads that mean hours and hours to get from Tonsley to Elizabeth end up being just as divisive. A manufacturer wishing to set up in Adelaide would need his/her head read. It is almost quicker to fly a part from Melbourne to Adelaide CBD than it is to drive along South Road in peak hour to the same place.
Even if the freeways had been scrapped and substituted with busways or tramways, the people moving capacity would have been there.
The pity of it all is that forty years after the MATS Plan, no Government in this State, either Lib or Lab has produced an alternative plan.
What are we paying those folks on North Terrace for?
- adam73837
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Re: MATS Plan
I'm sorry, but the MATS Plan was FABULOUS and so what if a couple of suburbs were PARTLY not COMPLETELY destoryed? What we got out of the freeways would have MADE UP FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And Hindmarsh would NOT have been completely destoryed. And if everyone wants proof, then HERE IT IS!!!!!
As you can see, it wouldn't have even flattened Hindmarsh Stadium, so the old saying that it would have completely flattened the tiny suburb of Hindmarsh is an absolute joke and just an excuse to not put the MATS Plan forward.I take back many of the things I said before 2010; particularly my anti-Rann rants. While I still maintain some of said opinions, I feel I could have been less arrogant. I also apologise to people I offended; while knowing I can't fully take much back.
Re: MATS Plan
I hate to think Adelaide would become another American style city with noisy freeways that cut off communites just to create the impression for the eastern states that we are not a backwater. Efficient PT is definately the answer
- monotonehell
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Re: MATS Plan
Che sera sera. Meanwhile, moving forward.adam73837 wrote:I'm sorry, but the MATS Plan was FABULOUS and so what if a couple of suburbs were PARTLY not COMPLETELY destoryed?
I think (hope?) maybe the current govt are rolling out a series of rail, freeways and road systems that will better service Greater Adelaide's needs without the gheto-ifying effects that other 1950's based freeway ideas have caused. Having shelved the MATS scheme back in the dark ages gives us a unique ability to create a transport network that isn't totally car-oriented. A lot of cities who have freeways systems are currently redesigning and adapting them with this in mind. Which seems to be the future considering current World events.
Exit on the right in the direction of travel.
- adam73837
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Re: MATS Plan
If the government aren't rolling out a series of rail, freeways and road systems that will service Greater Adelaide, what are some of your ideas. (Just curious to know what other people think.)monotonehell wrote:Che sera sera. Meanwhile, moving forward.adam73837 wrote:I'm sorry, but the MATS Plan was FABULOUS and so what if a couple of suburbs were PARTLY not COMPLETELY destoryed?
I think (hope?) maybe the current govt are rolling out a series of rail, freeways and road systems that will better service Greater Adelaide's needs without the gheto-ifying effects that other 1950's based freeway ideas have caused. Having shelved the MATS scheme back in the dark ages gives us a unique ability to create a transport network that isn't totally car-oriented. A lot of cities who have freeways systems are currently redesigning and adapting them with this in mind. Which seems to be the future considering current World events.
I take back many of the things I said before 2010; particularly my anti-Rann rants. While I still maintain some of said opinions, I feel I could have been less arrogant. I also apologise to people I offended; while knowing I can't fully take much back.
- shiftaling
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Re: MATS Plan
My - that MATS plan for Hindmarsh is just gross
Even if the only buildings there at the moment are industrial, if that freeway had been built there would never be anything there but concrete as far as the eye could see, permanently! Surely traffic's not that bad in Adelaide.
I'd rather live somewhere like San Francisco than Los Angeles, but then that's probably just me
Even if the only buildings there at the moment are industrial, if that freeway had been built there would never be anything there but concrete as far as the eye could see, permanently! Surely traffic's not that bad in Adelaide.
I'd rather live somewhere like San Francisco than Los Angeles, but then that's probably just me
- shiftaling
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Re: MATS Plan
well I agree, Ive made my feelings known that I am pro-public transport, and most of that MATS plan I think would have wrecked our city. Anyone been to Birmingham, UK? A similar example of what was proposed here, that went ahead there, which Birmingham has tried to fix ever since. I think they even tore down 1 of their ring freeways a few years ago caus of the eyesore and the negative impact on their city centre.
I just rode back from town and went via Womadelaide, and Iove how Womad have encouraged cycling and have got a large bike storing area inside the gates. There would have been around 800+ bikes in the area, plus another 500+ bikes on any fence or pole that you could lock a bike onto. Great to see.
I think Im gonna have to suggest to the Fringe people to do a similar thing near the garden of unearthly delights, because from the people i met tonight, they said it took ages to find a carpark, and well, suck shit to them Take a bus next time! There were thousands in town tonight. Great atmosphere
I just rode back from town and went via Womadelaide, and Iove how Womad have encouraged cycling and have got a large bike storing area inside the gates. There would have been around 800+ bikes in the area, plus another 500+ bikes on any fence or pole that you could lock a bike onto. Great to see.
I think Im gonna have to suggest to the Fringe people to do a similar thing near the garden of unearthly delights, because from the people i met tonight, they said it took ages to find a carpark, and well, suck shit to them Take a bus next time! There were thousands in town tonight. Great atmosphere
- monotonehell
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Re: MATS Plan
Who have spent the past couple of decades puling down their inner city trestle freeways.shiftaling wrote:...I'd rather live somewhere like San Francisco than Los Angeles, but then that's probably just me
Freeways have a purpose, to link distant high density centres to each other and create cross metro links. That seems to be where the Govt is taking things. But at the same time we need to be in-filling the sprawl. I'd like to see some PT corridors created that link high density multi purpose vertical communities. I don't mean "housing projects", I mean actual communities that combine living, entertainment, maybe even some industry like office spaces etc.
Exit on the right in the direction of travel.
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Re: MATS Plan
Coincidentally I did look at the MATS Plan this week. A deeply flawed document proposing freeways where they weren't necessary and underestimating what could be done with public transport. It would have ruined many suburbs, prevented environmental improvements, and made Adelaide much more car dependent. It is fair to say we're much better off without it. But could we have benefitted from bits of it?
Actually we have benefitted from bits of it! The Port River Expressway was part of it, as was the Southern Expressway. Some other parts of it were built as normal roads. Montague Road is the obvious example, and although it doesn't yet link with the Port River Expressway, it is likely to in the future. The cost of building it as a freeway would have greatly outweighed the benefits, and the drawbacks would have been significant.
Another example is Main South Road where it crosses the Onkaparinga. It didn't need to be part of a freeway to do its job. That doesn't mean it will never become a freeway, but it doesn't need to be one yet.
As the roads get busier, many people do think we should build a North-South freeway. But that's not an argument for the MATS plan. If we'd built one back then, it would often be gridlocked by now! Upgrading South Road will suffice for now. If and when we need something better, we can build an underground tollway like they have done in every Australian city bigger than Adelaide.
It did include a section under King William Street, but the plan involved closing the Glenelg tramway in order to get there.
Have you ever been to Keswick terminal? The platform is very long. An alternative under the City wouldn't fit Victoria Square - it would need almost the entire length of King William Street!
There's also the ventilation issue - the interstate trains would still be diesel hauled, so there would either be a ventilation problem or the expense of changing locomotives.
The MATS plan did not involve closure of the line through Keswick - that would still have been needed for freight. And the interstate trains would have terminated in Adelaide station at North Terrace, as they always used to before Keswick terminal was built. I suppose it may have prevented the construction of Keswick terminal, as it would have avoided the conflict between STA and AN. But it is fanciful to think they'd've put a new station under the City instead.
The MATS plan would NOT have enabled us to solve the congestion problem, or even helped us to.
Actually we have benefitted from bits of it! The Port River Expressway was part of it, as was the Southern Expressway. Some other parts of it were built as normal roads. Montague Road is the obvious example, and although it doesn't yet link with the Port River Expressway, it is likely to in the future. The cost of building it as a freeway would have greatly outweighed the benefits, and the drawbacks would have been significant.
Another example is Main South Road where it crosses the Onkaparinga. It didn't need to be part of a freeway to do its job. That doesn't mean it will never become a freeway, but it doesn't need to be one yet.
As the roads get busier, many people do think we should build a North-South freeway. But that's not an argument for the MATS plan. If we'd built one back then, it would often be gridlocked by now! Upgrading South Road will suffice for now. If and when we need something better, we can build an underground tollway like they have done in every Australian city bigger than Adelaide.
I can, but the MATS plan could not!Finally, the MATS Plan would have had a train subway going from the current Adelaide Central Station, underneath King William Street and along the current tram corridor. It would have then met a split junction at Goodwood and split into two different suburban railway lines: The Noarlunga Railway Line and the Belair Railway Line which connects to the line which takes you to Melbourne. It is because of this that the Interstate Railway Station could have been situated underneath Victoria Square. Can you imagine it? Being an interstate passenger from Melbourne travelling on the railway line and as you find yourself within the inner suburbs (or the Torrens Lake if you're coming from Perth), you suddenly go underground with the CBD Buildings just in view and then the train stops in a huge underground railway station. You then take your luggage and walk up to ground level to find yourself in Victoria Square with the Market and Grote Street to your left, Wakefield Street and the Adelaide Hills to your right and the big office buildings in front of you. CAN YOU IMAGINE IT?!
It did include a section under King William Street, but the plan involved closing the Glenelg tramway in order to get there.
Have you ever been to Keswick terminal? The platform is very long. An alternative under the City wouldn't fit Victoria Square - it would need almost the entire length of King William Street!
There's also the ventilation issue - the interstate trains would still be diesel hauled, so there would either be a ventilation problem or the expense of changing locomotives.
The MATS plan did not involve closure of the line through Keswick - that would still have been needed for freight. And the interstate trains would have terminated in Adelaide station at North Terrace, as they always used to before Keswick terminal was built. I suppose it may have prevented the construction of Keswick terminal, as it would have avoided the conflict between STA and AN. But it is fanciful to think they'd've put a new station under the City instead.
The MATS plan would NOT have enabled us to solve the congestion problem, or even helped us to.
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