#VIS: Riverside (Entertainment Precinct)

Ideas and concepts of what Adelaide can be.
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adam73837
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Re: #VIS: Riverside (Entertainment Precinct)

#106 Post by adam73837 » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:52 pm

Cruise wrote:
adam73837 wrote:
rhino wrote:I've just read an article in today's Adelaide Now which you may find interesting. Here's a snippet:

The Advertiser understands Mr Fitzpatrick and Mr Demetriou ultimately want the SANFL and SACA in face-to-face meetings to resolve Adelaide's long-running stadium debate. The potential consequences of the session are:

AFL games at Adelaide Oval after capacity at the city ground is increased to 35,000 and facilities improved by the $90 million redevelopment due for completion by the end of 2010.

PORT ADELAIDE, which is losing money playing at the 51,515-seat AAMI Stadium while averaging crowds of 30,000, moving home games to Adelaide Oval.

A JOINT bid by the SANFL and SACA in seeking Federal Government money to redevelop both AAMI Stadium and Adelaide Oval.

AN end to the Opposition's plans for a new city sports stadium on Adelaide's western edge with neither cricket nor football endorsing the project.
Thanks for posting it rhino, I didn't want to have to copy it from the newspaper like I did with the Foley article which I couldn't find on Adelaide Now.
Yes, I agree that it was quite interesting and that article had its ups and downs. It ups were that there may be AFL matches played in the city (finally 8) ), but its BIG DOWN was the fact that the AFL think that they can come in and stop the progression of a vision being backed by many South Australians. It was alright for Etihad Stadium to be built for them wasn't it? Non one came in and told them to stay put at Waverley Park, which shared that same 70s status as Subiaco and AAMI, the last 2 remaining 3 stooges. Honestly Demetriou, let Adelaide speak for itself, we don't need the likes of you coming, trying to bag a vision for this city. :roll: :evil:
Waverley park was approx 26kms from the Melbourne CBD. That is a similiar distance as Elizabeth Oval is from the Adelaide CBD, Footy Park is far closer to the city.

And the problem with Subiaco Oval is not it's location, it's the 43,000 seating capacity!
Look it up Adam, it's pissing distance from the CBD!
I think that, on the issue of AAMI, Subiaco and Waverley being the '3 stooges' :) there was a misunderstanding between us. When I stated that they (AAMI and Subiaco) were under the same category, I was not referring to their location, but rather the way which they are/ were designed. The seating configuration of the 3 is/ was very similar. If the AFL was 'allowed' to be rid of Waverley Park and instead get on of (if not the) best stadiums in Australia, why can't Adelaide?
I personally think that the new WA Liberals are being pathetically stupid getting rid of the proposed Stadium WA. Please don't anyone start with me that "we're heading into an economic downturn", etc. because firstly, where did MHS say that the stadium itself would start to be constructed in the next five years? (I stand to be corrected) Let's face it, the GFC won't last forever* and South Australia is tipped to boom once its over, so why not invest money in infrastructure that will get a return? When Kennet built the CityLink and Etihad Stadium, Melbourne weren't exactly swimming in cash were they? (Open to comment -like everything else) But no, he knew what was right and he built them, now they're all reaping from the benefits. I've said it before and no, I won't say it again.

*I am not saying that we will be immune from its effects, I am but stating that it will come to an end despite what all the doom and gloom journalists like to shove down our throats. :)
Last edited by adam73837 on Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: #VIS: Riverside (Entertainment Precinct)

#107 Post by Howie » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:54 pm

What Paul wrote above. I'd vote for any party who put together a decent proposal for the city's west that doesn't involve a new hospital.

Those who think this proposal would only work if there was a stadium should have a read of this.
http://www.sensational-adelaide.com/for ... =18&t=2351

It's called Fluid City, a book about Melbourne going from a city with a decimated economy to a city well and truly On The Move under Kennett. The way to get a city moving is by ... as Kennett describes it .. attracting 'footloose' capital and tourism. A decade after Melbourne's heart was moved from central CBD to the Southbank waterfront, and after Kennett had long gone, it was still attracting billions of investment including the building of the worlds tallest residential tower (Eureka).

What i'd personally want to see for the City West site is... a completely dedicated building for Skycity casino, a multi-level shopping centre with cinema complexes, the entire riverfront with cafes pubs and nightclubs, a new state of the art train station, at least one 5-star hotel complex, two foot bridges over the torrens, and a 'real' people's plaza (don't even mention Fed Square, that is horrendous). The Stadium would be icing on the cake but not the cake.

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Re: #VIS: Riverside (Entertainment Precinct)

#108 Post by adam73837 » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:00 pm

Howie wrote:What Paul wrote above. I'd vote for any party who put together a decent proposal for the city's west that doesn't involve a new hospital.

Those who think this proposal would only work if there was a stadium should have a read of this.
http://www.sensational-adelaide.com/for ... =18&t=2351

It's called Fluid City, a book about Melbourne going from a city with a decimated economy to a city well and truly On The Move under Kennett. The way to get a city moving is by ... as Kennett describes it .. attracting 'footloose' capital and tourism. A decade after Melbourne's heart was moved from central CBD to the Southbank waterfront, and after Kennett had long gone, it was still attracting billions of investment including the building of the worlds tallest residential tower (Eureka).

What i'd personally want to see for the City West site is... a completely dedicated building for Skycity casino, a multi-level shopping centre with cinema complexes, the entire riverfront with cafes pubs and nightclubs, a new state of the art train station, at least one 5-star hotel complex, two foot bridges over the torrens, and a 'real' people's plaza (don't even mention Fed Square, that is horrendous). The Stadium would be icing on the cake but not the cake.
Well said Howie; hear, hear. 8)
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Re: #VIS: Riverside (Entertainment Precinct)

#109 Post by waz94 » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:18 pm

adam73837 wrote:
Howie wrote:What Paul wrote above. I'd vote for any party who put together a decent proposal for the city's west that doesn't involve a new hospital.

Those who think this proposal would only work if there was a stadium should have a read of this.
http://www.sensational-adelaide.com/for ... =18&t=2351

It's called Fluid City, a book about Melbourne going from a city with a decimated economy to a city well and truly On The Move under Kennett. The way to get a city moving is by ... as Kennett describes it .. attracting 'footloose' capital and tourism. A decade after Melbourne's heart was moved from central CBD to the Southbank waterfront, and after Kennett had long gone, it was still attracting billions of investment including the building of the worlds tallest residential tower (Eureka).

What i'd personally want to see for the City West site is... a completely dedicated building for Skycity casino, a multi-level shopping centre with cinema complexes, the entire riverfront with cafes pubs and nightclubs, a new state of the art train station, at least one 5-star hotel complex, two foot bridges over the torrens, and a 'real' people's plaza (don't even mention Fed Square, that is horrendous). The Stadium would be icing on the cake but not the cake.
But definately not just a hospital.

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Re: #VIS: Riverside (Entertainment Precinct)

#110 Post by Shuz » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:19 pm

I just need to see a lot more substance to the plan to make a decision.

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Re: #VIS: Riverside (Entertainment Precinct)

#111 Post by Prince George » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:39 pm

Howie wrote:On another note, I have an architect telling me that by building Riverside they could inject billions of dollars of investment into the CBD/Metro area and create thousands of jobs WHILE putting money in the bank during construction.
Would this architect be prepared to detail just what they mean, is there a real, honest-to-God plan somewhere that we can actually see? I want to know things like:
  • Beyond the immediate construction jobs (and architectural contracts, might I add, which may be rather more interesting to your source) what is there to build a self-sustaining economic growth engine out of this, or are we looking at spending another billion once this thing winds down?
  • Why does opening this site suddenly kick start "billions of dollars of investment" that won't happen to the city without it? That just doesn't sound kosher to me - is something else on the table for these companies to make it happen?
  • Big investment only happens with the promise of big payoffs - who's actually profitting from this? How much of those profits is going to head to development companies interstate or overseas? Those situations lead to a very small "multiplier effect" (where the profits get invested back into the state, stimulating further job creation etc etc), which I don't regard as a very good investment of a billion dollars.
  • I've mentioned the Substitution Effect before - ie people tend not to change how much they spend on entertainment, they just substitute one choice for another - why will this project not just repeat this effect and build its profits at the expense of other areas in town? How is this going to lead to growing the economy rather than just moving its location?

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Re: #VIS: Riverside (Entertainment Precinct)

#112 Post by Queen Anne » Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:55 am

Howie wrote:
What i'd personally want to see for the City West site is... a completely dedicated building for Skycity casino, a multi-level shopping centre with cinema complexes, the entire riverfront with cafes pubs and nightclubs, a new state of the art train station, at least one 5-star hotel complex, two foot bridges over the torrens, and a 'real' people's plaza (don't even mention Fed Square, that is horrendous). The Stadium would be icing on the cake but not the cake.
Howie, I feel that building a multi-level shopping centre is not the way to go. Multi-level shopping centres are a dime-a-dozen. Town needs to offer something unique, something we can't get in our own surrounding suburbs. Imo, not even an extra great, you-beaut shopping centre cuts it. Town should strive to be a real point of difference, not just a glitzier version of what we already have.

Personally, I am totally underwhelmed by shopping centres - I like to go to town and walk around, seeing the architecture that was put there at different times by different people. It's an event to go to town. I like to watch all the people doing their various things - maybe lying in a park in the sun, riding their bike through the traffic, sitting at a sunny, outside cafe table, or rushing between office buildings. I can't do any of these things inside a shopping centre, just shop and eat mall food. I wouldn't go to Riverside to shop in the shopping centre. Watching other people shop under fake light is boring. And Marion's closer, if I have the need.

Maybe there are many other people who would shop there, though. However, I still see a problem with the shopping centre idea: we spend a lot of time on here talking about how to make Adelaide a more vibrant place. Putting people inside a shopping centre, where they are not contributing to the life of the street (or riverfront, as the case may be), would not help the city, imo.

Edit: Lol, I should say "Marion's closer" when I am in Australia, in my own little house. It's all plenty far from Seattle! Can't wait to get home at the end of the year, though :)

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Re: #VIS: Riverside (Entertainment Precinct)

#113 Post by Paulns » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:34 am

All I can say is that atleast we have a vision now for Adelaide by someone!!! Great proposal, I live and dream for the day that this happens..!
Howie wrote:I'd vote for any party who put together a decent proposal for the city's west that doesn't involve a new hospital.

Those who think this proposal would only work if there was a stadium should have a read of this.
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2351

It's called Fluid City, a book about Melbourne going from a city with a decimated economy to a city well and truly On The Move under Kennett. The way to get a city moving is by ... as Kennett describes it .. attracting 'footloose' capital and tourism. A decade after Melbourne's heart was moved from central CBD to the Southbank waterfront, and after Kennett had long gone, it was still attracting billions of investment including the building of the worlds tallest residential tower (Eureka).

What i'd personally want to see for the City West site is... a completely dedicated building for Skycity casino, a multi-level shopping centre with cinema complexes, the entire riverfront with cafes pubs and nightclubs, a new state of the art train station, at least one 5-star hotel complex, two foot bridges over the torrens, and a 'real' people's plaza (don't even mention Fed Square, that is horrendous). The Stadium would be icing on the cake but not the cake.
Couldn't agree more Howie. After living in Melbourne for a brief period, I've seen for myself the advantages the Kennett Government brought to Victoria and Melbourne.
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Re: #VIS: Riverside (Entertainment Precinct)

#114 Post by adam73837 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:01 am

ADELAIDE Oval will resume as the home of South Australian football - and host the AFL for the first time - if the SA Cricket Association can deliver on two critical points.

The SANFL, which walked away from the city ground to base its headquarters at Football Park in 1974, says it will return to Adelaide Oval if:

SACA officials can secure approval for a 50,000-seat stadium from city planners.

AN INDEPENDENT group of analysts assembled by the AFL delivers in the next eight weeks a business model showing the SANFL will not lose out financially by abandoning AAMI Stadium.

SANFL president Rod Payze last night returned from historic talks in Melbourne between the once-feuding football league and cricket association, saying the door was now open for football to consider a return to Adelaide Oval.

"But football will not move away from AAMI Stadium unless it is clear that everyone gains from such a move," Mr Payze said.

The SANFL-SACA talks - brokered by the AFL - yesterday began to thaw the strained relationship between SA's two biggest sporting bodies.

The two groups have agreed to meet again in the next month when the SACA is expected to have developed its plan for a new stadium for Adelaide Oval beyond a "concept design".

Significant from yesterday's meeting is:

A NEW bidding frame for Victorian-based AFL clubs wanting to transfer home games from Melbourne to Adelaide.

SANFL chief executive Leigh Whicker said he was prepared to offer as much as $700,000 to any AFL club wanting to switch a home game to AAMI Stadium. He said the SANFL had already opened talks with St Kilda. This fee is twice as much as the SACA has publicly declared as inducements to Victorian clubs.

STATE Opposition Leader Martin Hamilton-Smith's plans for a new city stadium seem redundant. Neither the SANFL nor the SACA endorsed the multi-purpose stadium, leaving it without a major potential tenant.

WHERE other sports - such as soccer and rugby - fit into Adelaide's infrastructure future remains uncertain.

Mr Whicker said his league still preferred a $190 million refit of AAMI Stadium.

"But," he added, "we have said before and we will continue to say, if there are other options put on the table to consider, we have a responsibility to look at them.

"We went into today's meetings with an open mind on Adelaide Oval. But the SANFL and its two AFL clubs (Adelaide and Port Adelaide) have certain non-negotiable conditions which we are not going to disclose at this time.

"They are fundamental to any further talks."

Most critical to the SANFL is that it not be anything less than an equal partner in the management of a new Adelaide Oval.

The league also has to be assured there is a financial benefit in leaving AAMI Stadium. This requires the SACA to come up with a financial plan which dispels a report commissioned by the SANFL in 1995 which said the league would have lost $20 million in 10 years by abandoning AAMI Stadium.

"The deal has to make sure football is not disadvantaged but must be of a great advantage to our game," Mr Whicker said. "It must be better than what we are enjoying now at AAMI Stadium otherwise there is no point in going down this track."

Mr Whicker also questioned if the SACA could get a new stadium at Adelaide Oval beyond the architects' plans.

"There are enormous compliances that would need to be negotiated - such as the lease with the Adelaide City Council and the heritage consideration," Mr Whicker said. "They are complicated and they need to be addressed to see if it opens another gate in our discussions.

"If you can't get through the first gate, that's where it will end."

Mr Whicker dismissed the option of spreading AFL football between AAMI Stadium and Adelaide Oval.

This seems to put off the agenda, for now, Port Adelaide moving home games to Adelaide Oval in search of larger match returns.

"To maximise our asset at AAMI Stadium we need to have all AFL there," Mr Whicker said. "Otherwise, there will be a financial 'leakage' as people will have to choose where they put their membership and sponsorship dollar between two venues."
STATE Opposition Leader Martin Hamilton-Smith's plans for a new city stadium seem redundant.
While the plans for the city stadium on Riverside West seem redundant (let it be known right here and now that I am not objecting to the SANFL shifting to AO and having AFL matches played there 8) ), the whole concept of building a Riverside Precinct is far from. We don't need the stadium for the Riverside Precinct to be successful, as mentioned several time before on this forum; so there's still hope of a vision like it going ahead.
Mr Foley said it was a devastating blow for Opposition Leader Martin Hamilton-Smith's plan for a new multi-billion dollar stadium in the city.
Furious Foley, while its a blow for the 'stadium plans', it ain't a blow for the 'Riverside Precinct Vision', so don't get too comfortable.
EDIT: Where did that 'multi-billion dollar' figure come from? :? :lol:
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Re: #VIS: Riverside (Entertainment Precinct)

#115 Post by Strangled Cat » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:10 pm

Cruise wrote:
adam73837 wrote:
rhino wrote:I've just read an article in today's Adelaide Now which you may find interesting. Here's a snippet:

The Advertiser understands Mr Fitzpatrick and Mr Demetriou ultimately want the SANFL and SACA in face-to-face meetings to resolve Adelaide's long-running stadium debate. The potential consequences of the session are:

AFL games at Adelaide Oval after capacity at the city ground is increased to 35,000 and facilities improved by the $90 million redevelopment due for completion by the end of 2010.

PORT ADELAIDE, which is losing money playing at the 51,515-seat AAMI Stadium while averaging crowds of 30,000, moving home games to Adelaide Oval.

A JOINT bid by the SANFL and SACA in seeking Federal Government money to redevelop both AAMI Stadium and Adelaide Oval.

AN end to the Opposition's plans for a new city sports stadium on Adelaide's western edge with neither cricket nor football endorsing the project.
Thanks for posting it rhino, I didn't want to have to copy it from the newspaper like I did with the Foley article which I couldn't find on Adelaide Now.
Yes, I agree that it was quite interesting and that article had its ups and downs. It ups were that there may be AFL matches played in the city (finally 8) ), but its BIG DOWN was the fact that the AFL think that they can come in and stop the progression of a vision being backed by many South Australians. It was alright for Etihad Stadium to be built for them wasn't it? Non one came in and told them to stay put at Waverley Park, which shared that same 70s status as Subiaco and AAMI, the last 2 remaining 3 stooges. Honestly Demetriou, let Adelaide speak for itself, we don't need the likes of you coming, trying to bag a vision for this city. :roll: :evil:
Waverley park was approx 26kms from the Melbourne CBD. That is a similiar distance as Elizabeth Oval is from the Adelaide CBD, Footy Park is far closer to the city.

And the problem with Subiaco Oval is not it's location, it's the 43,000 seating capacity!
Look it up Adam, it's pissing distance from the CBD!
Hate to be pedantic, but Waverley is actually 22km away, but still far enough for it to be a problem. AAMI stadium is about 13km, but I think this hurts Adelaide even more than it did Melbourne relative to the size difference. The other thing to note is that Waverley hosted predominantly Hawthorn, with the second team to call it home being St Kilda. Both those teams, especially St Kilda, have most of their supporter base located in the Eastern suburbs of Melbourne. For Port, Alberton is just a stone throw away from AAMI, so you'd think that most of their supporters would be from around that area anyway, and that logistically AAMI wouldn't pose a problem. I think for Port Adelaide - and I wish to not offend anyone here when I say this, but generally their supporters come from a lower socio-economic area which has a lot to do with their off field finacial dramas.

The problem I really have with AAMI is the lopsidedness of the location of it for a team which encompasses the whole city to be based there. What I mean is, like I said before about Port Adelaide, you get a true "home" sense with Port Playing there as Alberton, their spiritual home ground just as Glenferrie oval is to Hawthorn, Windy Hill to Essendon etc, is just a stone's throw away from AAMI. For Adelaide though, I think it's only fitting that they play in a location central to everyone, and that can only obviously be on the fringes of the CBD. For people my end of town, AAMI is just too far to go. The footy express helps, but even then it leaves too promptly after the game, and it's usually way overcrowded and often their just isn't enough of them. That won't deter me from going to see Geelong play there next weekend, but I'd much rather go to a centrally located ground with easy access to the city afterwards than have to make my way back from West Lakes.

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Re: #VIS: Riverside (Entertainment Precinct)

#116 Post by waz94 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:48 pm

STATE Opposition Leader Martin Hamilton-Smith's plans for a new city stadium seem redundant.
While the plans for the city stadium on Riverside West seem redundant (let it be known right here and now that I am not objecting to the SANFL shifting to AO and having AFL matches played there 8) ), the whole concept of building a Riverside Precinct is far from. We don't need the stadium for the Riverside Precinct to be successful, as mentioned several time before on this forum; so there's still hope of a vision like it going ahead.

Couldnt have put it better myself. This is exactly right. This particular location is not just about a Stadium but rather a whole Riverside precinct. If Adelaide Oval gets upgraded to 50,000 then we can save some cash and everyone wins, AS LONG AS THIS LOCATION IS NOT WASTED WITH JUST A HOSPITAL. So frustrating.

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Re: #VIS: Riverside (Entertainment Precinct)

#117 Post by waz94 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:49 pm

STATE Opposition Leader Martin Hamilton-Smith's plans for a new city stadium seem redundant.
While the plans for the city stadium on Riverside West seem redundant (let it be known right here and now that I am not objecting to the SANFL shifting to AO and having AFL matches played there 8) ), the whole concept of building a Riverside Precinct is far from. We don't need the stadium for the Riverside Precinct to be successful, as mentioned several time before on this forum; so there's still hope of a vision like it going ahead.

Couldnt have put it better myself. This is exactly right. This particular location is not just about a Stadium but rather a whole Riverside precinct. If Adelaide Oval gets upgraded to 50,000 then we can save some cash and everyone wins, AS LONG AS THIS LOCATION IS NOT WASTED WITH JUST A HOSPITAL. So frustrating.

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Re: #VIS: Riverside (Entertainment Precinct)

#118 Post by Shuz » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:51 pm

Whose to say Riverside won't still go ahead under a Labor Goverment, albeit on a smaller scale? I do believe they have intentions to redevelop the land in between the rail corridor and the Torrens, even with the new RAH taking up the land south of the rail tracks.

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Re: #VIS: Riverside (Entertainment Precinct)

#119 Post by adam73837 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:11 pm

Shuz wrote:Whose to say Riverside won't still go ahead under a Labor Goverment, albeit on a smaller scale? I do believe they have intentions to redevelop the land in between the rail corridor and the Torrens, even with the new RAH taking up the land south of the rail tracks.
According to their architectural drawings, the only thing between the hospital and the Torrens will be the railway lines and a strip of trees, etc. that are currently there. That doesn't mean that they won't eventually do something there, but still, it may just be me, a hospital does not fit in with a vibrant Riverside precinct.
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Re: #VIS: Riverside (Entertainment Precinct)

#120 Post by aussie2000 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:46 pm

first, i love the liberals plan, but if i were in charge this would be mine, keep the liberals plan, only difference would be that the entertainment centre would have to hold 25-30 thousand people, instead of a large multipurpose stadium maybe build a smaller 30 thousand seat soccer stadium (for soccer and rugby), use the money saved to turn adelaide oval into a 60 thousand seat stadium (for football and cricket) and upgrade the tennis stadium next to adelaide oval to hold 25 thousand people, and then you have a great state sports park right next to the city!!! also the tennis and soccer stadiums would have retractable roofs.

saying that i still 100 percent support the liberals plan, but still wonder what will happen to adelaide oval and the tennis stadium, too me the both look like patchwork jobs and even though they are famous and historical, i still think the look shit, even after the redevelopment of AO I like my plan cause everything will look new and match :) lol

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