#VIS: Riverside (Entertainment Precinct)

[Howie]

Yes, but why outsource something when there are no clear financial benefits of doing so? None of the staff are for a move to the west, it won't save money, it'll end up costing taxpayers more, you'll kill trade in the east end, you'll build on prime land, and end up pissing off alot of people. I wish they'd stop for a minute and think about what they're doing.

[Norman]

Yes, but why outsource something when there are no clear financial benefits of doing so? None of the staff are for a move to the west, it won't save money, it'll end up costing taxpayers more, you'll kill trade in the east end, you'll build on prime land, and end up pissing off alot of people. I wish they'd stop for a minute and think about what they're doing.

But lets look at it from a different angle.

• It may or may not cost more to build this new hospital compared to upgrading the existing one, but we would have a brand new, state of the art hospital with new facilities, new infrastructure and a capacity to expand.
• Transport access would be improved, the train will (AFAIK) stop right outside the hospital, and the tram goes there as well (it's even in the free zone). The current RAH has a share of the O-Bahn routes going up there, but that is going to be moved away from the hospital anyway.
• While East-end trade may fall slightly, the West End trade will be revived.
• Prime land that is used will be freed up on the current RAH site, which is rather drab looking at the moment anyway. There will be a chance of urban regeneration on the current site, such as more student accommodation and more space for the botanical gardens, which it itself supports over 1m visitors per year.
• While the railyards may be a prime site, there is still room around the hospital that can be turned into riverfront apartments. I don't support a multipurpose stadium anyway, it's bad enough at Etihad stadium for rectangular field sports. I would support a new stadium at Bonython Park (rectangular), Mile End (oval), Adelaide Oval (oval) or across the road from the Adelaide Oval for a new rectangular stadium. And anyway, I've lived in Stuttgart, a city where there is no CBD stadium, but an efficient public transport system that got you to the stadium in very little time, and it was doing just fine and dandy.
• I do want to know what proportion really cares what happens on the railyards anyway. Sure, there's a few hot-headed keyboard warriors on AdelaideNow, but most of the people I know don't care or care very little. I'm sure that if the RAH is built there won't be a mass exodus from the City just because of a new hospital. If anything, it should strengthen our city as one for medical research and healthcare.

[mattblack]

Oh i am sorry mattblack you must have misinterpreted what i meant. When i said "probably of interest to followers of this thread, as you are probably pro keeping the RAH on current site, thus freeing up the railyards for an entertainment precinct", what i meant is "probably of interest to followers of this thread, as you are probably pro keeping the RAH on current site" not "definitely of interest to you mattblack because you are pro keeping RAH on current site " which im guessing is how you read it. I can see how you could make such an easy mistake . Im sorry for any offence that this comment must have caused to deserve such a poignant reply to be capitalised and followed by not one but two exclamation marks. i hope you soon recover from any anguish inflicted.

Thats Ok, apology accepted.

By the way Norman I completely agree, a voice of reason at last. I am personally sick of all the negative attention that is being given to us getting a state of the art medical facility which happens to be over railyards which might possibly, one day, maybe be used for something else . I hope i, or anybody i know, doesn't ever have to use the hospital but im bloody glad its going to be there. I for one am not going to argue with nearly $2Billion woth of new medical facilities.

[Pistol]

I agree with you Matt.
No one has given a rats ass about the state of affairs of the train yard land UNTIL the current government decided to actually utilise this land.
And it isn't going to be a wishy washy development that may or may not include a stadium that will probably take 10 years to get funding for and build - this development is actually a value adding community development that will support the city of Adelaide for decades to come.
It would have been interesting to see whether MHS had any plans for this land prior to Mike announcing the hospital.
No wonder nothing ever happens in South Australia - we all bitch and moan about the amount of red tape and consultation that developments go through and yet when a political party actually has the balls to do something what do we do??? Maybe they should have consulted with the community first...
Quite ironic really.

[AtD]

@Howie: Without getting too involved in the specifics of this case, of which I know little, in general outsourcing, especially government work, delivers savings though things such as:
- Reduced administrative overhead. Firslty for governments, who generally have a plethora of excess red tape and bureaucracy in every single task they perform (especially Federally) , a burden which the private sector is free of. For the private sector, generally different fields of work are covered totally different set of rules and regulations, for example, awards & workplace relations, workplace safety, government accountability, standards, tax laws and so on. Each field of work your business produces requires administrative staff to oversee such regulations are complied with, especially if there's any sort of negotiations or reporting required. There could be different unions involved, different and government departments. By outsourcing the work of a specific field, the business frees itself of that administrative cost.
- Market power, in negotiating better contracts from suppliers. For example, a professional catering firm that services dozens of work sites would be able to negotiate better prices from suppliers than an individual canteen.
- Greater expertise in job specific issues and a greater ability to train staff. The most extreme example is a legal department, but it is true for other industries.
- It can free management of the day-to-day issues of non-core work, such as staff turnover and managing cash flow
- Taxation plays a role in many cases

That being said, one would hope the government would take a long hard look at the costs and benefits rather than making a snap decision on the assumption that all outsourcing is good.

[adam73837]

I agree with you Matt.
No one has given a rats ass about the state of affairs of the train yard land UNTIL the current government decided to actually utilise this land.

...Then the Opposition released a vision that was immediately backed by the majority of Adelaide (including many on S-A wasn't it?

And it isn't going to be a wishy washy development that may or may not include a stadium that will probably take 10 years to get funding for and build - this development is actually a value adding community development that will support the city of Adelaide for decades to come.

And an entertainment precinct with surrounding restaurants, cafes and hotels won't?

It would have been interesting to see whether MHS had any plans for this land prior to Mike announcing the hospital.

Yes it would, just like it would be interesting to see whether:
Media Mike would've committed to electrifying the railway network 4 months after MHS first started making noise;
The AC would have had development plans taken away soon after that;
Media Mike would've given (then admittedly withdrawn for understandable reasons) money to the SANFL to upgrade that... place;
Suddenly announced a boom in Infrastructure Projects that we had been lacking for some time;
etc. ( Well, actually I can't think of anything else at the moment, but I'm sure there are some other things... <awaits a batman picture> )

when a political party actually has the balls to do something what do we do??? Maybe they should have consulted with the community first...
Quite ironic really.

I... what? Come again? Rann's Government has the balls to do something? I can't really think of anything to say right now about that, but I laugh. I'm not saying MHS is necessarily going to revolutionise this city and become the next Playford/Dunstan/Kennet that we desperately need, but despite protests from the NIMBYs at least he put forward an exciting vision that was immediately received with open arms by the public and immediately considered a better option for the RIVERFRONT. Besides, since when did Riverside's life ever revolve around the stadium? The new world-class arena could go where AO is now, instead of this every-5-years-we-build-another-stand thing that they have. Meanwhile, the Riverside area could become similar to the Southbanks in Melbourne/Brisbane and Darling Harbour in Sydney. I know that I'm comparing again, but I'm merely using them as an example of how they've revolutionised the surrounding areas. Meanwhile you (someone who interestingly has a picture of Media Mike with one of the state's better Premiers on their profile*) complain about something like that when you too have been openly asking for an exciting vision along with nearly everyone else on S-A.
Besides, my grandmother passed away in the ICU (one of the greatest in Australia I'm told, but stand to be corrected) at the current RAH and I tell you, the Botanical Gardens was a perfect retreat to calm down; where are you going to go from CityWest? Hindley Street ? The gradually-becoming-another-dustbowl that is the western parklands ? As well as that, I know several people that have done a University Medical Course and my uncle's brother works at IMVS. These two things are very conveniently located next to the RAH, but no, we're going to shift it right out of there! But wait! In order to cover that up, we'll spend millions more relocating all those things, won't we? But we won't include that cost in the supposed '1.7bn' figure will we? No,because that doesn't sell a story and we aren't called Media Mike for nothing are we?

Cheers,
Adam

*BTW, I'm aware of the irony that exists in me making such a statement because my signature degrades Media Mike, so don't anyone bother pointing it out.

[Norman]

Adam, the precinct around the new RAH will be turned into gardens and open plazas from what I've heard.

[adam73837]

Adam, the precinct around the new RAH will be turned into gardens and open plazas from what I've heard.

Yes, another cost not included in the $1.7bn figure.

[Norman]

Adam, the precinct around the new RAH will be turned into gardens and open plazas from what I've heard.

Yes, another cost not included in the $1.7bn figure.

I'm not so sure about that actually, in fact I think it's the Adelaide City Council doing that work. If not, it would be included in the figure as it is part of the project.

[adam73837]

Adam, the precinct around the new RAH will be turned into gardens and open plazas from what I've heard.

Yes, another cost not included in the $1.7bn figure.

I'm not so sure about that actually, in fact I think it's the Adelaide City Council doing that work. If not, it would be included in the figure as it is part of the project.

In which case I would be very glad indeed.

[deano91]

...

It would have been interesting to see whether MHS had any plans for this land prior to Mike announcing the hospital.

Yes it would, just like it would be interesting to see whether:
Media Mike would've committed to electrifying the railway network 4 months after MHS first started making noise;
...

Does anyone know what the Liberals' stance on electrifying the rail network is, and what sort of timeframe they are thinking of doing it in? If they are going to electrify the system in a decent time frame AND build Riverside, they will definately be getting my vote!

[monotonehell]

...and meanwhile I'm still (semi)patiently waiting for someone to come up with some concrete ideas to populate MHS's Riverside that make economic sense.
While my schoolboy side is supportive of the Riverside vision, my it's the economy stupid side is sorry to say that the relocated RAH has more economic arguments for revitalising the west end than anything on MHS's vision.

Surely if MHS has developers backing his vision who are able to built it 'with no public money', they would have crunched the numbers for the enterprises that they intend to build there. It has to make economic sense or they wouldn't be backing it. All of the things that are on the vision document made no economic sense.

Unless they are looking to someone else to fund it, while they only carry the risk of building it, running away from the white elephant with the cash? Like so many National Wine Centres.


I'm information starved here. I can not make a decision based on 'visions', and schoolboy aspirations for something nebulous but 'exciting!'

Come on MHS, give me something to vote for. So far all you have is a vision document that looks worse than what we at S-A put together a few months beforehand, an independent investigation into a stadium that somewhat undermines your position (respect for publishing that despite that fact by the way), nothing promising regarding public transport, and some throw away comments regarding storm water harvesting.

Rann is looking better than you, but only by a little bit, and mostly because he is the incumbent. I'm not looking for drunken sailor cash splash 'non core' promises, I'm looking for something past vision and into economically framed actualisation.


Not really holding my breath here though

[Omicron]

[rhino]

Adam, I love your comment that MHS's vision is "what most of Adelaide wants"

Where did you get that? Adelaide Now? High Schools?

People in Adelaide who have families and responsibilities are quite happy to see money being spent on a brand new hospital, and don't have a problem with the site either. Thankfully, these people, while not making up the bulk of posters on Adelaide Now's stupid polls, do make up the bulk of voters.

[ozisnowman]

Only problems with the new hospital is that the government has no idea as to the level of
contamination at the site or how much the clean up will cost, not to mention the problem
of having helicopters crossing the flight path of jets coming into Adelaide Airport.