Grenfell and Currie St Busway and Bikeway (dialup = no)

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Grenfell and Currie St Busway and Bikeway (dialup = no)

#1 Post by AtD » Sun May 10, 2009 1:34 pm

Here's something I've been playing around with in my spare time for a few weeks now.

Adelaide is very reliant on its bus network for the provision of public transport, especially the eastern and north eastern suburbs. Grenfell Street and Currie Street (From here on referred to simply as "The Street") are the most vital city thoroughfare for the bus network, and is the destination for the majority of passengers. This has lead to severe congestion, both on the road and on the footpaths. The footpaths can become almost impassable on weekday afternoons due to the large crowds waiting for buses, especially on the northern side. Some stops experience such large crowds that their queues overlap and cause even greater congestion.

The Street also functions as a vital link for private road traffic entering the CBD, providing the only access to several key loading docks. A significant portion of traffic is cross town, not stopping in the CBD. This has resulted in Grenfell Street and Currie Street being a major source of delay for buses, leading to longer trips, late buses and poorer utilisation of the buses themselves.

The Street is practically a no-go zone for cyclists. The crowded footpaths are unsuitable and the road is too dangerous thanks to parked cars, heavy traffic and weaving buses.

The following illustrates how busy The Street can be on an average Weekday.
Image
The above counts cross-town services (Bus X continues as route Y) as a single service, rather than two, and excludes Thursday or Friday only services.

Limited access to curb space often leads to queuing.
Image

Traffic can lead to delays for buses. (Note the poor cyclist in the left crossing King William Street who's about to get squashed between two buses :lol: )
Image

Bus crowds regularly cause congestion on footpaths in afternoon peak.
Image

My proposed solution is to:
  • Close Grenfell Street and Currie Street to regular traffic, creating an inner-city busway.
  • Widen the footpaths, especially the northern footpath. Areas of footpath that are not adjacent to bus stops could be used for the expansion of existing outdoor dining areas.
  • Construct new, larger bus shelters, preferably longer than an articulated bus and as wide as the widened footpath. Explore options to allow multiple door loading in afternoon peak, such as ticket validation before boarding.
  • Create a separated bikeway, protected from traffic. This, and the widened footpath, will narrow the street from six lanes to four.
  • Removal of all existing on-street parking, except for the occasional loading zone outside peak hours.
  • Access to local properties would need to be maintained, especially for delivery vehicles. Side streets will need to be utilised as thoroughfares and limited entrances and exits provided.
  • Possibly allow private vehicles through access after hours (eg 7pm - 7am) to keep a presence in the street
Here is a conceptual illustration of what I'm proposing, for the section between King William Street and Pulteney Street.
Image
  • The existing bus stops are marked (black text), but there's no reason they cannot be moved or new stops created.
  • Taxis are allowed to use the street as a thoroughfare, and the existing taxi ranks can be maintained. (I've just noticed that I've made a mistake on the King William St end, the westbound lane should read "BUS LANE," not "BUS ONLY")
  • Varying access restrictions (day time vs. night time) can be facilitated by electronic signs and time schedules on signs.
  • A new pedestrian crossing is proposed, to service the proposed Rundle Place development.
  • The conversion of the Gawler Place intersection to a scramble crossing is proposed. This intersection becomes very busy during the working day as it is used by office workers to access Rundle Mall.
Private and commercial vehicle access to local properties:
  • Access to Imperial Pl, James Pl and the City Cross loading dock: Enter by turning left from King William Street, and exit by turning right onto Wyatt Street.
  • Access to the section of Galwer Place between Grenfell Street and Rundle Mall: Enter and exit via Pirie Street.
  • Access to U-Park on Grenfell (The Harris Scarfe car park): Enter from Chesser St and exit on Wyatt St. Vehicles exiting the car park are not permitted to continue east towards Pulteney Street.
  • Access to the Harris Scarfe (proposed Rundle Place) loading dock, the Adelaide/Regent arcade loading dock and Twin Street: Enter via Chesser St and exit by turning left onto Pultney Street.
  • Access to the Conservatory on Hindmarsh car park: Enter via Pirie Street then Hindmarsh Sq West and exit via Hyde St or Wyatt St.
  • Access to Coromander Pl: Enter via Pirie St and exit by turning left onto Galwer Pl.
  • Access to Register Ln: Enter via Galwer Pl and exit by turning left onto King William Street
Thoughts? Constructive criticism welcome.
Last edited by AtD on Sun May 10, 2009 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: typofix

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Re: Grenfell and Currie St Busway and Bikeway (dialup = no)

#2 Post by monotonehell » Sun May 10, 2009 3:53 pm

You've certainly put a lot of thought into it. I've had similar thoughts in the past, but couldn't get past the challenges that access to Grenfell UPark and Wyatt St UPark as well as all the private entrances along Grenfell, Gawler Place and the side streets feed from Grenfell heading North. There's also a lot of private underground parking entry ways hidden along this area. I've often thought that Grenfell UPark should be demolished (horrid old building in poor repair) and used as part of the new Rundle Place development. Then you'd have to run all of Wyatt UPark's traffic via Wyatt and Hyde Streets along to and from Pirie Street. It could be done, but both those streets are narrow.

I think the biggest challenge would be convincing local traders, tenants and their ilk that this solution would not disadvantage them. This section of Grenfell Street probably has some of the highest density activity of all of Adelaide.

Good job on the pretty illustration! ;)
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Re: Grenfell and Currie St Busway and Bikeway (dialup = no)

#3 Post by Norman » Sun May 10, 2009 3:59 pm

I like it. I really do. Only thing I would suggest is making the Pulteney Street and King William Street intersections three-way pedestrian crossings as well.

Pirie Street could then be used to carry the East-West tram routes.

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Re: Grenfell and Currie St Busway and Bikeway (dialup = no)

#4 Post by monotonehell » Sun May 10, 2009 4:03 pm

Norman wrote:I like it. I really do. Only thing I would suggest is making the Pulteney Street and King William Street intersections three-way pedestrian crossings as well.

Pirie Street could then be used to carry the East-West tram routes.
The old system had them on Grenfell Street, the problem with Pirie Street is it's so narrow. So it would be tram only :lol:
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Re: Grenfell and Currie St Busway and Bikeway (dialup = no)

#5 Post by Shuz » Sun May 10, 2009 4:31 pm

I think they should just shift all the buses onto Pirie/Waymouth, and trams down Grenfell/Currie & Franklin/Flinders.

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Re: Grenfell and Currie St Busway and Bikeway (dialup = no)

#6 Post by Norman » Sun May 10, 2009 4:45 pm

monotonehell wrote:
Norman wrote:I like it. I really do. Only thing I would suggest is making the Pulteney Street and King William Street intersections three-way pedestrian crossings as well.

Pirie Street could then be used to carry the East-West tram routes.
The old system had them on Grenfell Street, the problem with Pirie Street is it's so narrow. So it would be tram only :lol:
Exactly my point, Pirie Street should be a tramway only, with limited access local traffic.

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Re: Grenfell and Currie St Busway and Bikeway (dialup = no)

#7 Post by peas_and_corn » Sun May 10, 2009 5:32 pm

Wow, that's a really good idea! I've always thought that the road should be exclusive to buses, and you've soved all the issues regarding the car park building and the loading dock issues.

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Re: Grenfell and Currie St Busway and Bikeway (dialup = no)

#8 Post by AtD » Sun May 10, 2009 5:39 pm

Guys, we need to leave at least some streets for cars. :wink: Pirie/Waymouth and Flinders/Franklin could be made one way.

monotonehell: Wyatt U-Park can be accessed by entering on Hyde Street and exiting on Wyatt Street. Wyatt is already two lanes at the Pirie Street end, and Hyde Street could be made into a one-way street with two lanes heading north. It'd just require the removal of yet more on-street parking.

Chesser Street, however, can not carry two lanes and might be prone to congestion. I can't think of a better way to allow traffic to access U-Park Grenfell that couldn't be exploited by through traffic. I don't think it's a good idea to allow left turns into U-Park Grenfell as it already causes congestion in the mornings and disrupts buses.

Convincing local traders it's a good idea to demolish UPark Grenfell would be even harder than convincing them to close Grenfell Street!

Norman: Scramble crossings on King William and Pulteney - good thinking.

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Re: Grenfell and Currie St Busway and Bikeway (dialup = no)

#9 Post by jk1237 » Sun May 10, 2009 5:41 pm

no arguments from me. Great proposal.

I bet the car people wont to be happy that 2 east-west streets (Rundle and Grenfell) will be closed off, but I say stuff em. Make them use Flinders/Franklin

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Re: Grenfell and Currie St Busway and Bikeway (dialup = no)

#10 Post by monotonehell » Sun May 10, 2009 7:21 pm

AtD wrote:monotonehell: Wyatt U-Park can be accessed by entering on Hyde Street and exiting on Wyatt Street. Wyatt is already two lanes at the Pirie Street end, and Hyde Street could be made into a one-way street with two lanes heading north. It'd just require the removal of yet more on-street parking.
Not in any useful way. The Wyatt Street entry into the park is two ramps in and two gates out. It also enters the main side with ramps running around both main tiers. While the Hyde Street entrance has two gates configured as one in and one out; but that side of the building is the annex, which has connecting ramps at all levels to the main building. Trying to fit the morning and evening rushes into another configuration would cause major chaos. The carpark is the reason why Wyatt Street is two lanes but one way.

You see, my 'problem' is that I worked in both those carparks for over two years, so I'm familiar with the rush periods and the traffic patterns that result. This is why I've had a difficult time trying to come up with a solution to closing Grenfell Street to through traffic. Other than knocking down Grenfell UPark... :twisted:

It's the same with my desire to pedestrianise Rundle Street and close down the Rundle/Pulteney Intersection to through traffic -- there's Rundle UPark and the Target Building Carpark opposite to contend with. I'd also like to realign Rundle Road with Grenfell Street at East Tce, instead of where it currently meets Rundle Street.

AtD wrote:Convincing local traders it's a good idea to demolish UPark Grenfell would be even harder than convincing them to close Grenfell Street!
[/quote]
Couldn't we just do it in the middle of the night when no one's looking? ;)


The thing with messing with one street like this is that you have to expand your thinking to a holistic solution for the rest of the city. Blocking Grenfell Street to though traffic is a great idea that I fully support, but now we need to work out where all the traffic fed from Glover Tce and Rundle Road is supposed to go. And where do we shunt the traffic trying to get in and around the area?
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Re: Grenfell and Currie St Busway and Bikeway (dialup = no)

#11 Post by adam73837 » Sun May 10, 2009 8:51 pm

I agree that The Street can be a pain, particularly during peak hour, but making it off-limits to private vehicles (all the time) is something of which I fail to see the need. Make it off limits to private vehicles during peak hour, but not when there's hardly anyone there.
The road is 4 lanes in width (to prevent another confusion :lol: , 2 lanes each way), so keep it as it is in off-peak periods (i.e. Weekends and 9:30am-4pm and 7pm-6am on Weekdays), then adapt AtD's plan (or maybe a slightly modified version) to The Street during Peak Hour. Just in case people think that I have not experienced what The Street is like from a bus passenger's point of view, I have and believe me, I was astounded. It took longer to get from Adelaide Arcade to the Brewery Apartments than it did to get from the Britannia Roundabout to Leabrook! :roll: :x
But that said, I personally don't think it necessary to permanently adapt AtD's plan to The Street. It's perfect for peak hour, but not necessarily the rest of the time. <Awaits a Batman picture :wink: :lol: 8) >
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Re: Grenfell and Currie St Busway and Bikeway (dialup = no)

#12 Post by AtD » Sun May 10, 2009 10:31 pm

monotonehell: Unfortunately Google Street View isn't very useful for understanding the configuration of car parks so I'll leave that to you. ;) Perhaps Wyatt Street can be made two way in the mornings to allow for access to the main entrance of the car park? It's not the most elegant solution, but neither is anything else I've said in this thread!

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On the issue of a more "a holistic solution" I have had thoughts of bringing in one way streets to improve capacity but I haven't developed those thoughts very far. It might help to use Google Earth as a reference to WTF I'm on about
Pirie-Waymouth Street is currently two lanes with two lanes of parking and two bike lanes, so at worst it could handle 5 lanes of traffic. If it were to be made one way, heading west (to match with the flow of traffic around Light Sq), it could be made 4 lanes with a bike lane on the right/north side. Off peak it can be lined with parking along the left/south side.
Flinders-Franklin is currently four lanes with two lanes of parking, two bike lanes and a one lane wide centre median/turning lane. At worst it can handle 7 or 8 lanes. If made one way, heading east (counter to Pirie-Waymouth and matching the flow around Victoria Sq), it could also be made 4 lanes with a bike lane on the right/south side and angle parking at all times on the left/south side.

Funnelling traffic too and from Grover Ave shouldn't be too hard as West Tce has more than enough lanes for this purpose. Glover Ave heading west could have 3 right turn lanes instead of the one and a "half" it has now. West Tce heading north can have two lanes turning left onto Glover Ave by removing one of the right turn lanes into Currie St.

The intersection of West Tce and Waymouth would need traffic signals, the intersection of West and Franklin could have a third right turn lane.

In the east end it's a bit trickier. The Intersection of East Tce and Grenfell St would need to be modified to remove lanes turning into Grenfell and divert them along East Tce. The intersection of East, Pirie and Hutt could do with an extra right turn lane from Hutt onto East Tce/Bartels Rd. The intersections of East-Rundle and East-North can be left as is.

The advantage of one-way streets is right turns can be allowed without disrupting traffic, resolving access issues on one hand while creating access issues in another.



Resuming normal service... I don't think maintaining the same number of lanes should be the objective. In theory, at least, the provision of improved bus and bike facilities will encourage modal shift.

adam24601 - I do agree that the closer of Grenfell-Currie is less necessary during the day, especially in the morning. However, separate rules for morning peak, afternoon peak, daytime, nights, weekends, etc, leads to reading exam signs. That's fine when you're parking, because you're stationary, but is impossible for moving traffic. Electronic signs may help, but still general confusion may rein.

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Re: Grenfell and Currie St Busway and Bikeway (dialup = no)

#13 Post by AG » Mon May 11, 2009 6:45 am

This is a very detailed and well thought out plan. At Wyatt Street, I don't think it's really necessary to have two lanes turning right particularly if motorists also have the option of continuing straight to Pulteney Street, the pedestrians could do with that extra width. :wink:

With regards to Pirie Street, it would be good to convert it to a one way street for westbound traffic, but it'd be a hell of a time for motorists trying to travel east around that part of the city if there's nowhere to travel east between North Terrace and Flinders Street. Redesigning Pirie Street to two lanes in each direction could work, but I don't imagine it would be easy to convince some of the businesses on the street that it's a good idea because of the parking spaces that would need to be removed. Also, motorists wouldn't be able to turn right without causing congestion.

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Re: Grenfell and Currie St Busway and Bikeway (dialup = no)

#14 Post by Aidan » Tue May 12, 2009 12:05 am

This looks like overkill - you seem to be trying to do too much unnecessary stuff, in a way that could actually make the problem worse. Replacing the median strip with cycle lanes would make the street much harder to cross. Surely it's far more sensible to create a better cycle route on a parallel road? And narrowing the road would remove nearly all the traffic flow advantages for buses.

Yes, the footpaths on the northern side are severely congested in the PM peak. So what? Pedestrians have got a whole street to themselves just one block away! And the buses load slowly because of the ticketting system. Once this is replaced, it will be a lot faster.

If Pirie (Waymouth) Street is made westbound only, and Framklin (Flinders) Street eastbound only, they would be able to carry far more traffic, so much of the through traffic could take that route instead - you wouldn't have to mess up Currie and Grenfell. And there would be some additional advantages: it would become practical to allow hook turns from King William Street. It would also simplify things at the N end of Victoria Square.

As for E-W trams, I think a better option is Grote Street and Angas Street, with a four track tram interchange in Victoria Square.
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Re: Grenfell and Currie St Busway and Bikeway (dialup = no)

#15 Post by Wayno » Tue May 12, 2009 8:26 am

what does "(dialup = no)" mean in the title of this thread?
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