Airport transport access (split from news thread)

[bm7500]

Guys! This is a thread about news worthy content relating to Adelaide Airport. Kindly post your Tramline discussion etc in the Visions thread.

Cheers.

It doesn't really fit there either - that thread's for upgrading and/or moving the airport itself.

AtD has said he might split this thread, and I strongly encourage that - transport to the airport does need its own thread. If there's to be a split, I can wait until then before replying, but the posts of those people who couldn't wait won't be cluttering up this thread for long.

I was actually referring to the 'Adelaide Airport Visions' thread under the 'Visions & Suggestions' area here: http://www.sensational-adelaide.com/for ... 2&start=45 The abovementioned tramline suggestions would fit nicely in there with no need to further split this thread.

[Aidan]

I was actually referring to the 'Adelaide Airport Visions' thread under the 'Visions & Suggestions' area here: http://www.sensational-adelaide.com/for ... 2&start=45 The abovementioned tramline suggestions would fit nicely in there with no need to further split this thread.

As I said, that thread's for upgrading and/or moving the airport itself. Future airport transport access deserves its own thread, and I'm glad it finally has it.

As for light rail to the airport, I think it should be (and probably is) a case of when rather than if, and Sir Donald Bradman Drive is the best route for it. However I think it's a much lower priority than other improvements such as extension of Richmond Road to the airport.

[Ho Really]

From the Time to rip up the OBahn? thread.

The Interstate terminal should also include suburban.

As I said, it should be better linked to Keswick station. But that would reduce, rather than increase, the need for light rail there.

Keswick station should be upgraded to become a major interchange. Since the idea of an underground in the city is moot, whether for a loop or a go through, I would think this is the next best solution for anyone wanting to go north-south or viceversa and then connect to the airport and the city.

The whole area around Keswick (including the barracks) should be a TOD.

Why the obsession with TODs? What is the problem with its current zoning?

It's not my obsession, but it is a good idea. Bringing back people closer to the city instead of far flung suburbs (such as Concordia or Mount Barker) has many merits (discussed elsewhere in this forum).

The corridor for a fast light rail to Airport is already there and not on streets.

I don't regard a watercourse as a good railway route.

In Adelaide there are many watercourses, drains, creeks that are hidden which have been built upon. So surely what difference would it make if this one was enclosed too? It's not a major engineering problem. As for this particular drain, it remains dry for most of the year. Should there be a flood, a once in every one hundred years event, then the Airport would also be affected. So I don't see too many issues with this except passengers peering over fences (which can be lined with native bushes or trees).

Putting in a street light rail won't be any cheaper considering all the traffic issues.

I find that unlikely.

You would have to rip up the centre of Sir Donald Bradman Drive (or Richmond Road depending on your option), and cause traffic issues for a while. Then there is the disruption to local businesses. These all have costs.

As for demand, surely if Adelaide's aim is to increase its population (to something similar to Perth or Brisbane) we'd be looking at one... and why not do a good job of it first off?

Because there are other transport projects that deserve a higher priority. And light rail won't necessarily be what we need. It really depends on what other transport improvements are made.

Sure, that's fine, but I think such a project boosts the city's tourism and business potential, and its standing as a liveable and progressive city.

Cheers

[fifty]

Hi All

My first post after stumbling across S-A. Development of Adelaide is something I am passionate about, so I really rate this board and have become a frequent lurker. Time now to contirbute.

Firstly some credentials. I am an Adelaide native who until recently was based here, but now in Asia. Let's just say I am a frequent business traveller, who is familiar with airports, their facilities and CBD transport systems the world over. I go out of my way to hub through airports and cities that facilitate this sort of activity. So I think I am qualified to offer a few insights and suggestions re Adelaide.

For me, the airport experience and transportation to and around the CBD are all important. Speed is everything. AA has a distinct advantage being so geographically close to the CBD, moreso than any other major city in Australia, and indeed many in the world. However, this has made AA lazy in not bothering with any high speed rail connection to the CDB. OK, Adelaide is small, and adding such a link won't turn it in to a national or international business mecca, but I still believe there are sufficient benefits to consider it. Look at Sydney. Brisbane is probably a more appropriate example. The role model is Chek Lap Kok (Hong Kong) which is ultra high speed and has airport luggage and ticketing check in-facilities (two in fact) in the CBD. Bangkok has tried to copy this, but was executed poorly. For those who have been to Stockholm, that's another good example.

I notice the new AA expansion planning leaves room for, I recall, a 'light rail' hub for transport to the city. Ok... at least there's a footprint set aside, but 'light rail'?! Come on man, this is 21st century. But I guess we're talking about quaint ol little Adelaide here.....

For me this should be a raised, or tunnelled, or a combination of both where required, high speed rail connection straight up SDBD with two terminals at Cowandilla/Hilton (to encourage local use and development) and also at the ETSA Park/interstate rail terminal (to facilitate increased patronage of the sporting and inter-modal transport facilities in this area), then continuing up to terminate at Vic Square.

Alternatively, if the nimby's and heritage nazi's demand it, it could go up Richmond Rd. In fact, I think Richmond Rd, and the light industrial land it runs through from Marion rd to the airport fence, is prime land for a serious terminal expansion, including a grade separated, high speed road and rail link via Richmond Rd, Deacon Ave and James Congdon Drive with a major interconnect to N-S Freeway (via acquisition of land triangle between Richmond, South and Deacon Rd), and then connecting up with SDBD near Bunnings in to the city. Hell, even if the terminal expands where it currently is, there's plenty of room NE of the runway to link the start of Andy Tomas Circuit to the end of Richmond Rd. Land and aesthetic values along Richmond would be much lower than SDBD, but that's another post for another thread...

Business travellers can then arrive, and be in the CBD with tram connection to everything of importance to them in less than 30min - truly world class. It may not seem like much to those who do the odd Jetstar itinerary to Melbourne, but trust me, these sorts of conveniences are very attractive to frequent travellers and to cities when bidding for major convention, sporting or business events, aside from all the congestion and pollution benefits it would bring along the current SDBD corridor to the city. With the AO development, I could see Adelaide getting much larger interstate attendences for AFL and cricket (and soccer, via city west tram extension). When I lived in Adelaide, I always chose to attend a few interstate games, and Brisbane was always high on the list, because of its airport-CBD interconnect and closeness to the Gabba (Melbourne, specifically Ethiad Stadium games, were always the other, coz of the ultimate stadium experience). With a cheap fare to Adelaide, a cheap high speed rail connection to the city, and a 10min walk to AO, if it were me living in other cities, Adelaide would be easily the most attractive option. These types of leisure travellers will be big business in the city once AO is done. The Olympic Dam expansion (ODX) is another generational, game-changer for the state and the city which must be planned for, encouraged and facilitated. Can you see the Management Board of BHP and their 100's of advisers and hangers-on choosing Adelaide as a frequent venue for meetings when ODX gets up, and then taking a tram in to the city?! I don't think so.

As many other ex-native Adelaidians on here say, I get extremely frustrated and saddened by the half-baked conservatism of this city. FFS, can't we do things properly once with a view towards the future??!!! Ask yourself, what would Colonel William Light do?

/first post

[monotonehell]

Sorry fifty, but you lose all your frequent lurker miles now that you've delurked.

I think Richmond Road is a more valid route for such a thing, SDBD is too crowded and busy to construct along. Light-rail / heavy-rail not sure if those terms mean the same thing to everyone these days. It's certainly not a long enough route for what I understand heavy-rail to mean. But you may mean something different by it.

Easy in the misplaced apostrophes and welcome to the forum

[fifty]

Hi Monotonehell and thanks for your welcome.

I don't know the official definition of light and heavy rail, but when I scoffed at the 'light rail' concept in the AA development plan, I guess I had trams in mind. Where I advocated 'rail' in my post, I had something faster, and ideally with a small footprint, in mind, eg Brisbane's Airtrain as a minimum. Raised single pylon structure, eg down centre of SDBD, would achieve this, but I realize that is not everyone's cup of tea.

I guess it's all relative. I did have a chuckle when you referred to SDBD as too busy and crowded to construct along. My reference point is places like Nathan Rd in Hong Kong (tunnelled) and Sukhumvit in Bangkok (raised) where major construction is a constant and the construction crews and transportation seem to manage just fine. Not that I'm advocating a built environment like that for lil ol Adelaide, but a bit of 21st century convenience and technology wouldn't hurt when it suits.

[monotonehell]

... I did have a chuckle when you referred to SDBD as too busy and crowded to construct along...

I meant building-wise. There's a lot of buildings very close to the road (it's really more of a street than a road closer to the city). You'd have to be a very brave politician to try to build a raised railway over it. How about that monorail? lol

As for under, real tunnelling is probably outside our reach in the near future. Cut and cover might be affordable, the disruption again would cause politicians to shy away from it.

Probably better to take the other route, it has the added benefit of being able to stop at the rail terminal to connect air and rail.

Also, it's only about 6Km via SDBD, would heavy-rail even get up to speed over that distance?

[Splashmo]

Part of me feels like a rail option, light or heavy, would not be the best use of money... at least not in this decade. The airport is so close to the city that a taxi is the best option. If the demand were there we could also get a Melbourne Skybus-style service up and running - direct to the bus station and transfers to hotels, easy.

[Maximus]

Part of me feels like a rail option, light or heavy, would not be the best use of money... at least not in this decade. The airport is so close to the city that a taxi is the best option. If the demand were there we could also get a Melbourne Skybus-style service up and running - direct to the bus station and transfers to hotels, easy.

What about an OBahn-style option...? Just putting it out there...

On the issue of the route, whatever you do to Richmond Road couldn't make it look any worse than it already does. I went along there in a taxi the other day for the first time in a while and couldn't believe just how fugly that stretch of road really is. I know there's some light industry in the area, but far out. Some sort of upgrade would be most welcome.

[fifty]

Yep, agreed Richmond Rd is like the Badlands. And this definitely works in its favour for this idea as land and aesthetic values for widening the corridor won't kill the project, unlike most other inner metro areas. With the Deacon/James Congdon Drive link it's also a fairly direct line to the city.

I like Maximus' O-Banh idea. It ticks the speed box, the Adelaide practicality and conservatism box, plus the all important cost box. The problem is that part of the O-Banh justification is that the buses can do either normal road or O-Banh track duties, however an airport interconnect needs a specialised internal fitout to suit airport communters (room for luggage, more sitting leg room, padded seats, TVs, etc.. like any other modern airport/city train link) so it could only be dedicated to airport O-Banh duties, which sort of defeats the purpose.

If the Gov't was serious they would add another line from Adelaide Train Station, dedicated to high speed airport connections, following the existing south bound corridor to a new Sports/Inter-model Terminus near the current ETSA Park and interstate rail terminal, then diverting to follow the James Congdon/Deacon Rd/Richmond Rd corridor down to the airport, with or without a grade separated road link.

[jk1237]

If the Gov't was serious they would add another line from Adelaide Train Station, dedicated to high speed airport connections, following the existing south bound corridor to a new Sports/Inter-model Terminus near the current ETSA Park and interstate rail terminal, then diverting to follow the James Congdon/Deacon Rd/Richmond Rd corridor down to the airport, with or without a grade separated road link.

a railway line used to exist on that same corridor - the former Glenelg railway line.

Its all about cost mr fifty, probably doesn't meet the cost benefit analysis compared to other projects. If our city gets even more conventions and a decent amount of tourists in the next 10 years, it maybe viable

[Will]

I personally do not ever think a train line would ever stack up on a cost benefit analysis.

What people forget is the distance between our airport and the CBD. It is a mere 7km. I don't think we could justify spending so much money to save travellers 2-3 minutes. Train lines work in other cities because their airports are located much further away from their CBD, making the 20 minute time saving worthwile.

The best solution for linking the airport to the CBD is light rail. And if building light rail makes us backwards, then so is the rest of Europe, who has enbraced light rail, not to mention Melbourne, closer to home.

[fifty]

Yes, but politics can change everything (eg, Adelaide Oval)

[ml69]

I personally do not ever think a train line would ever stack up on a cost benefit analysis.

What people forget is the distance between our airport and the CBD. It is a mere 7km. I don't think we could justify spending so much money to save travellers 2-3 minutes. Train lines work in other cities because their airports are located much further away from their CBD, making the 20 minute time saving worthwile.

The best solution for linking the airport to the CBD is light rail. And if building light rail makes us backwards, then so is the rest of Europe, who has enbraced light rail, not to mention Melbourne, closer to home.

Whichever way you look at it, taxi is currently the most convenient option for business travellers and tourists given the CBD is about 15 minutes away from the airport (say 20-25 mins in peak hour), with cost about $20 odd dollars. Pretty cheap especially if you are travelling with other passengers. And door-to-door convenience which cannot be matched by any public transit system.

Good point made by Will re heavy rail. I even think spending 100's of millions on a CBD to Airport tram link wouldn't be a wise spend of public transport dollars.

I like the suggestion of extending Richmond Rd and linking it to Andy Thomas Circuit NE of the runway. You could build in a dedicated transit lane for taxis and buses (Skybus type services, demand permitting) to facilitate fast access to the city via Deacon Ave/James Congdon Dr, and then continue the transit lane down Grote St to Victoria Sq. An inexpensive solution which still provides fast CBD access by bus and taxi.

[dbl96]

There has been much talk on here about the viability of a airport to city loop. Iv'e taken a different approach taking in the western suburbs, see what you think.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/2hnrp

Once the line is built express Airport-City services could also be offered