It's Zebra crossing time!

[Waewick]

I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere on this board (if not i'm suprised) but after doing a fair bit of walking around the city for a bit I don't understand why we do not have dedicated Zebra Crossings in certain areas.

I've highlighted a couple I thought would be no brainers.

The first is on Flinders Street, as you walk through Victoria Square and head straight past the LTO you get to a point on Flinders at the end of the Treasury building which is has been clearly established for pedestrians but they do not have right of way.

Following this path you get to Pirie Street which has a similar “walk here” feel to get to Exhange place however once again Cars don’t really want to stop.

I know people are going to suggest walking the extra 20-30 metres to the intersection however given this is a very well utilised pedestrian track I’m going to ignore them

My reasoning behind Zebra Crossings with clearly marked "give way to pedestrian" signs is I don't wan't another set of lights which may go red when no one is around and I think those roads are capable of being pedestrian friendly given the amount of foot traffic which uses them given the number of businesses in the area.

I also believe that people aren't stupid and can make their mind up when it is safe to walk without the need of little Green men. It may take a number of weeks with say police enforcing the rule but I do believe eventually it is something Adelaide could deal with.

thoughts?

[AtD]

I agree completely. Adelaide could do with zebra crossings in any number of locations. Rundle Street could do with a couple. We're the only state that does not mark left turn slip lanes (Turn left at any time with care) with zebra crossings and the 'walking leg' give way to pedestrians sign.

Some lower traffic pedestrian crossing lights around Adelaide should be replaced with zebra crossings IMO, such as at either end of University Bridge. With no yellow phase and no flashing red man phase, they're far more efficient for these locations IMO.

[ricecrackers]

i dont think they'd work in Adelaide

from the few i've witnessed, they're dangerous and Adelaide drivers are generally too sleepy to take notice of them. they give pedestrians a false sense of security whilst motor vehicles plow straight through.

...and before the predictable profiling occurs, i'm speaking from the perspective of the pedestrian here. i always stop at them as a driver, but many dont.

[AtD]

People probably said the same thing when traffic lights were first installed.

[Waewick]

I wholeheartly agree that they have the potential to be dangerous.

I do believe however that with the right markings - apart from the big white stripes some street signs are going to help I think a simple advertising campaign regarding their introduction would work - they do work at the airport.

The notion that we can't do it in Adelaide because we are too sleepy at the wheel or bad drivers isn't good enough for me, surely we are all intelligent enough to be 1) paying attention to the road and 2) seeing people walking across the road can press the brake...

obviously as a pedestrian you would want to have a look before crossing but I would still have faith in the general public not run me over - heck look how many people jay walk through traffic at the moment and drivers don't go out their way to hit people.

if it was going to happen, as I said for the first 3 months i'd have a authority sitting their handing out warnings to drivers who fail to give way it will only take a handful of people to be booked before the drivers start realising.

I'd also add that the two points I am using to start with already have a significant amount of foot traffic anyway i am mearly trying to enhance the postion of the pedestrian trying to walk there - given we are trying to make our city more pedestrian friendly.

[ricecrackers]

I wholeheartly agree that they have the potential to be dangerous.

I do believe however that with the right markings - apart from the big white stripes some street signs are going to help I think a simple advertising campaign regarding their introduction would work - they do work at the airport.

The notion that we can't do it in Adelaide because we are too sleepy at the wheel or bad drivers isn't good enough for me, surely we are all intelligent enough to be 1) paying attention to the road and 2) seeing people walking across the road can press the brake...

obviously as a pedestrian you would want to have a look before crossing but I would still have faith in the general public not run me over - heck look how many people jay walk through traffic at the moment and drivers don't go out their way to hit people.

if it was going to happen, as I said for the first 3 months i'd have a authority sitting their handing out warnings to drivers who fail to give way it will only take a handful of people to be booked before the drivers start realising.

I'd also add that the two points I am using to start with already have a significant amount of foot traffic anyway i am mearly trying to enhance the postion of the pedestrian trying to walk there - given we are trying to make our city more pedestrian friendly.

jay walkers generally are more aware when they're crossing the road
whereas pedestrians that cross at designated crossings will pay less attention to traffic

you cant change an ingrained culture overnight. its simply not worth the trouble and frankly i cant see the benefits for their introduction over pedestrian traffic lights crossings

[Waewick]

that isn't really the attitude that helps RC - but your probably in the majority view so your right in the fact that ideas like this will never come to reality.

I just don't understand the assumption that everyone is stupid and can't learn new things, I also fail to see how an aware jaywalk is in any less more danger than an unaware person walking in a designated area. I wonder if anyone has done any studies (google will be getting a work out)

I like the idea of zebra crossings because they are flexible - ie you only stop for the person crossing the road not through a whole section of red light - also it seems overkill to have one so close to a set of traffice lights and it enhances the position of the pedestrian by giving them right of way without the need for them to stop and wait gor a green walking man.

[ricecrackers]

that isn't really the attitude that helps RC - but your probably in the majority view so your right in the fact that ideas like this will never come to reality.

I just don't understand the assumption that everyone is stupid and can't learn new things, I also fail to see how an aware jaywalk is in any less more danger than an unaware person walking in a designated area. I wonder if anyone has done any studies (google will be getting a work out)

I like the idea of zebra crossings because they are flexible - ie you only stop for the person crossing the road not through a whole section of red light - also it seems overkill to have one so close to a set of traffice lights and it enhances the position of the pedestrian by giving them right of way without the need for them to stop and wait gor a green walking man.

jaywalkers by and large understand the risks they are taking, therefore are more aware of oncoming traffic
a person crossing at a designated crossing is less so because they believe the law will save them

i did say drivers were sleepy but i never said people were stupid by the way, i just said it isnt worth the trouble to change an existing culture. the benefits simply do not outweigh the risks in my opinion.

furthermore, from a drivers point of view, it is much easier for them to spot a red stop light than some painted lines on the road together with some pedestrians waiting to cross

[AtD]

As I said in another thread: I think they'd need to be introduced slowly, starting off with conspicuous ones with flashing yellow lights and/or the crossing higher than the road itself (the only type we really have in SA currently), then slowly over time introducing less and less sophisticated ones as people get used to the concept.

There is a zebra crossing across one of the southern approaches/exits to the Sydney Harbour Bridge. The city with the worst jaywalkers and least patient drivers can figure it out. Even in Canberra, where most drivers are in a coma due to the wide roads and lack of traffic, zebra crossings are common and successful. The notion that the Adelaide driver is somehow incapable is yet another for the file.

its simply not worth the trouble and frankly i cant see the benefits

That is the common theme in almost all your posts lately.

[ricecrackers]

That is the common theme in almost all your posts lately.

you just couldnt resist a personal dig could you

with respect to the issue of the thread, show me the benefits

[AtD]

Pot, kettle, black.

One advantage is as there's no yellow phase and no flashing red man phase, less time is wasted for all parties.

[Waewick]

that isn't really the attitude that helps RC - but your probably in the majority view so your right in the fact that ideas like this will never come to reality.

I just don't understand the assumption that everyone is stupid and can't learn new things, I also fail to see how an aware jaywalk is in any less more danger than an unaware person walking in a designated area. I wonder if anyone has done any studies (google will be getting a work out)

I like the idea of zebra crossings because they are flexible - ie you only stop for the person crossing the road not through a whole section of red light - also it seems overkill to have one so close to a set of traffice lights and it enhances the position of the pedestrian by giving them right of way without the need for them to stop and wait gor a green walking man.

jaywalkers by and large understand the risks they are taking, therefore are more aware of oncoming traffic
a person crossing at a designated crossing is less so because they believe the law will save them

i did say drivers were sleepy but i never said people were stupid by the way, i just said it isnt worth the trouble to change an existing culture. the benefits simply do not outweigh the risks in my opinion.

furthermore, from a drivers point of view, it is much easier for them to spot a red stop light than some painted lines on the road together with some pedestrians waiting to cross

sorry I didn't mean to put words into your mouth regarding people being stupid - but in hindsight I clearly did

in terms of the benefits, which in this case are based on my opinion not much else given I still can't find a study on it.

1. Flexibility - you stop or slow down for the pedestrian crossing and keep moving - a win for impatient drivers and a win for impaitent pedestrians.
2. We see the city become more pedestrian friendly - anything giving the pedestrian right of way is a win for a city that wishes to become more pedestrian friendly.
3. Costs - the cost of installing and maintaining the pedestrian lights would be significant - a painted road with some yellow signs is going to be a fraction of a cost.
4. improves the safety of places that people already cross at - I am not talking about adding these in willy nilly, the two places I am referring too are already significantly used by pedestrians, my desire to see zebra crossing is more an attempt to enhances the postion and make them safer.

In regards to the awakeness of both driver and pedestrian once aware that they exist then their awareness is going to change. I have come across zebra crossings in other cities and countries and haven't been run over ....yet

I think changing the culture of the city driver and pedestrians is worth it, because eventually with an increase in trams and PTwe are going to have more pedestrians.

saying that, seeing what people do when they get off the trams i think we might need zebra crossings at every tram stop...or boom gates

[ricecrackers]

that isn't really the attitude that helps RC - but your probably in the majority view so your right in the fact that ideas like this will never come to reality.

I just don't understand the assumption that everyone is stupid and can't learn new things, I also fail to see how an aware jaywalk is in any less more danger than an unaware person walking in a designated area. I wonder if anyone has done any studies (google will be getting a work out)

I like the idea of zebra crossings because they are flexible - ie you only stop for the person crossing the road not through a whole section of red light - also it seems overkill to have one so close to a set of traffice lights and it enhances the position of the pedestrian by giving them right of way without the need for them to stop and wait gor a green walking man.

jaywalkers by and large understand the risks they are taking, therefore are more aware of oncoming traffic
a person crossing at a designated crossing is less so because they believe the law will save them

i did say drivers were sleepy but i never said people were stupid by the way, i just said it isnt worth the trouble to change an existing culture. the benefits simply do not outweigh the risks in my opinion.

furthermore, from a drivers point of view, it is much easier for them to spot a red stop light than some painted lines on the road together with some pedestrians waiting to cross

sorry I didn't mean to put words into your mouth regarding people being stupid - but in hindsight I clearly did

in terms of the benefits, which in this case are based on my opinion not much else given I still can't find a study on it.

1. Flexibility - you stop or slow down for the pedestrian crossing and keep moving - a win for impatient drivers and a win for impaitent pedestrians.
2. We see the city become more pedestrian friendly - anything giving the pedestrian right of way is a win for a city that wishes to become more pedestrian friendly.
3. Costs - the cost of installing and maintaining the pedestrian lights would be significant - a painted road with some yellow signs is going to be a fraction of a cost.
4. improves the safety of places that people already cross at - I am not talking about adding these in willy nilly, the two places I am referring too are already significantly used by pedestrians, my desire to see zebra crossing is more an attempt to enhances the postion and make them safer.

In regards to the awakeness of both driver and pedestrian once aware that they exist then their awareness is going to change. I have come across zebra crossings in other cities and countries and haven't been run over ....yet

I think changing the culture of the city driver and pedestrians is worth it, because eventually with an increase in trams and PTwe are going to have more pedestrians.

saying that, seeing what people do when they get off the trams i think we might need zebra crossings at every tram stop...or boom gates

i think the solution to 1. is more patience. lack of patience in my opinion is the single biggest road safety threat that exists. to save a few seconds that is all, seriously people waste far more time in these forums!

[Waewick]

My guess is that in a perfect world they would.

just out of interest are you only against them because a percieved waste of time and effort changing the culture of Adelaide or another reason?

[ricecrackers]

My guess is that in a perfect world they would.

just out of interest are you only against them because a percieved waste of time and effort changing the culture of Adelaide or another reason?

i've nearly been run over a couple of times at a zebra crossing. i was paying attention by the way, but the drivers werent.
given i've used stop light crossings a lot more and not experienced these near misses then based on my personal anecdotal evidence i can report which method i believe to be safer.

as i've said, i am unconvinced of any benefits zebra crossings would have to Adelaide. there are no other reasons.