#VIS Grenfell Public Transport Hub

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Waewick
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#VIS Grenfell Public Transport Hub

#1 Post by Waewick » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:40 am

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http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... 6030952660

GRENFELL St would become a public transport-only zone under a final plan put forward by Thinker in Residence Fred Hansen.

The street's footpaths would be widened, allowing for outdoor cafes, and buses would be the only traffic.

Grenfell St is one of the city's busiest streets, carrying much of the O'Bahn bus traffic as well as private cars crossing the city.

Bus drivers have referred to it as a "moving carpark".

Mr Hansen, a former general manager of a US public transport operator, unveiled his vision on Tuesday night to about 700 people when giving his final address as Thinker in Residence.

"We need to be able to make Grenfell St pedestrian friendly," he told The Advertiser yesterday. "You pull out a traffic lane so people are not so cramped in. At 5pm now, you can barely navigate your way down the footpath. You also need to look at the lack of greenery along the street."

Mr Hansen said making Grenfell St a public transport-only street would also encourage the use of hybrid diesel-electric buses, cutting pollution and making it more comfortable for pedestrians.

He also calls on the Government to do more to promote a pedestrian culture in the city, complete a city tram loop and provide more facilities for cyclists. Another key recommendation is to create a planning and urban development authority to help ensure public space was of a high standard.

Speaking at the Urban Development Institute Australia national congress yesterday, Mr Hansen gave light-hearted criticism of the state of Adelaide's ageing public transport infrastructure.

"(For) many of the train stations here, in the greater Adelaide area, a World War II bunker would look better, and I think that in some of those settings a bulldozer would be the best answer," he said.

On the question of a development authority, Mr Hansen recommended it have a number of responsibilities.

"It would look at all of the infrastructure costs ... whether it's roads, streets or open space and many, many others and determine what the true cost of those are, ... and, ... allocate among the various players who has to pay for that," he said.

Mr Hansen described some developments in the outer suburbs as poorly designed and built.

"It leaves an impression that that is the only thing that will happen when we go to denser development," he said


not sure if this belongs here or on the CBD development board but here it is !

I actually like the idea, obviously things would need to be done on morphett street to assist with the increase number of people moving through the city but it would be interesting to see if this improved the street - and the PT that went through it.

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Re: #VIS Grenfell Public Transport Hub

#2 Post by AG » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:23 am

I think prioritising Grenfell Street for public transport would be a great initiative for favouring pedestrian movement over vehicles. Not sure what the obsession with urban planners wanting to put cafes on every single street though, I personally do not think Grenfell Street itself is the right place for this function but the surrounding laneways would be great for this sort of use.

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Re: #VIS Grenfell Public Transport Hub

#3 Post by Waewick » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:49 am

the laneways perhaps but not the street....maybe just green verges would be nice.

I would also suggest that in conjuction with this a review into the direction of traffic throughout the city with a view to creating some one way thorough fares through the city (and out of the city)

I realise the grid layout maybe great for somethings but apart from say Wakefield and KW Street the rest could be looked at for the prosect of being 1 way.

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Re: #VIS Grenfell Public Transport Hub

#4 Post by metro » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:22 pm

YES. wider footpaths!! more trees!! no cars!! needs to include Currie St too!!

also cafes in some of the quieter laneways would be better than on the busy Grenfell St. Exchange Place and James Place are fairly well done, needs to happen on Gawler place, Coromandel Place, Chesser St. To make the whole 'bus only' grenfell st idea work though, the Harris Scarfe carpark will need to close. Need the council to get right on to this ASAP. But i doubt it will happen anytime soon.

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Re: #VIS Grenfell Public Transport Hub

#5 Post by Wayno » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:35 pm

yep, concur with previous posts - cafes etc in adjacent alleys.

Access for buses only is a HUGE step forward, and will encourage through-traffic to use the CBD ring route (which in itself is in dire need of attention).
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.

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Re: #VIS Grenfell Public Transport Hub

#6 Post by Nathan » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:21 pm

I know we have an unwritten rule here about posting AdelaideNow comments, but this one made me laugh. I'm not sure if the person was being sarcastic or serious...
what about we ban pedestrians and buses and make something car friendly for a change.

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Fred Hansen's visions

#7 Post by Aidan » Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:29 pm

capitalist wrote: not sure if this belongs here or on the CBD development board but here it is !
There have already been two threads on similar topics: AtD's plan in the Visions & Suggestions section and the government's plan in the Infrastructure/Transport Development section. IMO these are both much better thought out than Fred Hansen's plan. For instance, AtD proposed access to the Harris Scarfe car park via Chesser Street (before its pedestrianization was announced). Fred offered no solution. He seems to have the idea that every problem can be solved by engineers. And he's right... if there are no restrictions on cost!

This thread is misnamed - removing cars from Grenfell Street won't make it a public transport hub any more than it is now. So I suggest we broaden this thread to include all of Fred Hansen's proposals.

I'm distinctly unimpressed with his overall vision. Stopping sprawl restricts the choices people have, a City tram loop is rather a waste of money, and his objective of getting more people onto City streets seems rather pointless to me. I'd rather Adelaide didn't replicate Portland's mistakes!

But he does have some good ideas. Hybrid buses are one, and I'm more convinced than ever that one way streets would be advantageous. But most of all, the need for greater public involvement in plans, particularly in the early stages, is crucial.
Just build it wrote:Bye Union Hall. I'll see you in another life, when we are both cats.

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Re: #VIS Grenfell Public Transport Hub

#8 Post by Ben » Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:53 pm

This will never happen unless they allow trucks etc to use this street which defeats the purpose. All the southern side of Rundle mall recieve their deliveries from grenfell street.

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Re: #VIS Grenfell Public Transport Hub

#9 Post by crawf » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:11 pm

Anything that improves the appearance of Grenfell/Currie Street, get's my vote.

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Re: #VIS Grenfell Public Transport Hub

#10 Post by shiftaling » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:16 pm

Ben wrote:This will never happen unless they allow trucks etc to use this street which defeats the purpose. All the southern side of Rundle mall recieve their deliveries from grenfell street.
It would slightly defeat the purpose but it may be better than buses, trucks and cars. If trucks/no cars were allowed they could still widen the footpaths as planned, and they could lower the speed limit to mitigate the hazards posed for pedestrians.

I like the idea overall and I think it would be good to encourage pedestrians in Grenfell St - it's definitely pretty ordinary at the moment as pedestrians have to walk single file due to the O-Bahn queues.

I agree that some greenery would be nice and that it doesn't need to be wall to wall cafes, but there would need to be more of that kind of business to make it a worthwhile pedestrian destination.

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Re: #VIS Grenfell Public Transport Hub

#11 Post by AtD » Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:15 pm

Ben wrote:This will never happen unless they allow trucks etc to use this street which defeats the purpose. All the southern side of Rundle mall recieve their deliveries from grenfell street.
I would hazard a guess that the number of delivery and service vehicles would be relatively low. Removing though traffic would go a huge way towards making the street flow better.

As for the proposal above: it's just a pretty picture, not really thought through and it's not even a new idea. Not particularly exciting stuff.

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Re: #VIS Grenfell Public Transport Hub

#12 Post by Nathan » Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:32 pm

Aren't most of the deliveries done via the lanes between Rundle Mall & Grenfell St, rather than from Grenfell St itself? (I'm thinking Gawler Pl and Twin St). They could maintain access to those vehicles by allowing them to cross Grenfell St (via Hyde St to get to Twin St) - rather than having them drive down Grenfell St itself.

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Re: #VIS Grenfell Public Transport Hub

#13 Post by rhino » Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:15 am

Deliveries could also be restricted to uncrowded times - like between midnight and 7:30am.
cheers,
Rhino

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Re: #VIS Grenfell Public Transport Hub

#14 Post by AG » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:03 am

rhino wrote:Deliveries could also be restricted to uncrowded times - like between midnight and 7:30am.
I think this would be the best compromise to keeping vehicle restrictions while still allowing deliveries where they are needed. Melbourne's Swanston Street and sections of Bourke Street are open to delivery vehicles only during quiet periods while restricted to public transport and taxis during all other times.

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Re: #VIS Grenfell Public Transport Hub

#15 Post by Ben » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:09 am

rhino wrote:Deliveries could also be restricted to uncrowded times - like between midnight and 7:30am.
This would mean staff would have to be working to recieve the deliveries...

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