Adelaide Airport visions

Ideas and concepts of what Adelaide can be.
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Aidan
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Re: Adelaide Airport visions

#31 Post by Aidan » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:28 pm

zippySA wrote:Agree with Aidan, extending the current runway would seem the most likely major works for a long time.

As I understand it, this would enable the new A380 to use the airport hence increasing the volume for long haul flights which would be good.
Technically it wouldn't, as the runway is already long enough for that. But lengthening it further would increase the range and payload of some of the aircraft that use it.
By the time they need a parallel runway, they may as well look to move the entire airport.
One of our CBD's great strengths is its proximity to the airport, so there won't be much point in looking to move it.
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Re: Adelaide Airport visions

#32 Post by [Shuz] » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:03 am

Distance to CBD is irrelevant so long as you have either high speed rail or a motorway connecting a new airport to the CBD, in which speed would compensate for distance to equal time.
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Re: Adelaide Airport visions

#33 Post by zippySA » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:50 pm

No doubt someone on S-A knows the real technical reason, but an A380 can only land in Adelaide as part of an unscheduled, emergency type movement. They are not able to use the airport as a standard commercial destination due to the runway length - I don't think the length meets CASA requirements for over-run in the event they need to stop take-off part-way along the runway.

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Re: Adelaide Airport visions

#34 Post by monotonehell » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:10 pm

zippySA wrote:No doubt someone on S-A knows the real technical reason, but an A380 can only land in Adelaide as part of an unscheduled, emergency type movement. They are not able to use the airport as a standard commercial destination due to the runway length - I don't think the length meets CASA requirements for over-run in the event they need to stop take-off part-way along the runway.
I don't think that's true. The new airport terminal is designed to handle the capacity, several test flights were conducted by Qantas when they first received their A380s back in 2008...
27 Sep - Arr 12:15 Dep 12:40
28 Sep - Arr 18:15 Dep 18:40
4 Oct - Arr 18:15 Dep 18:40
5 Oct - Arr 18:15 Dep 18:40
7 Oct - Arr 18:15 Dep 18:40
9 Oct - Arr 08:25 Dep 08:50
12 Oct - Arr 08:25 Dep 08:50
12 Oct - Arr 13:05 Dep 13:30
14 Oct - Arr 18:00 Dep 18:25
15 Oct - Arr 08:25 Dep 08:50
15 Oct - Arr 13:05 Dep 13:30
16 Oct - Arr 08:25 Dep 08:50
16 Oct - Arr 13:05 Dep 13:30
17 Oct - Arr 08:25 Dep 08:50
17 Oct - Arr 13:05 Dep 13:30


The only thing is that our taxi ways are a bit narrow. The really need to be about 15m wider to allow for pilot taxiing error. :lol:
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Re: Adelaide Airport visions

#35 Post by Ho Really » Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:51 pm

[Shuz] wrote:Distance to CBD is irrelevant so long as you have either high speed rail or a motorway connecting a new airport to the CBD, in which speed would compensate for distance to equal time.
I would assume your new airport would be at Dry Creek or more logically further north, correct? In that case, as it has already been said, you would be disadvantaging those in the southern suburbs. A freeway may one day be built on the entire north-south corridor, but a dedicated high speed rail line no. One of Adelaide's advantages over the other capital cities is its airport location. Let's keep it that way.

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P.S. The A380 issue is a minor thing.
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Re: Adelaide Airport visions

#36 Post by Maximus » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:01 am

Just to clarify the A380 issue...

Yes, taxiways ideally need to be widened and you would want to have multiple aerobridges for the one gate, but the real sticking point is runway length for take-off. Required runway length for take-off depends on a number of things, including temperature and wind speed and direction, but ultimately it's at the discretion of the pilot. At light loads (e.g. test flights or diversions), the Adelaide runway is more than long enough for the A380 to take off, but at maximum take-off weight, it's pretty marginal. So, an A380 to, say, Singapore might be do-able, but an Emirates A380 to/from Dubai is unlikely, unless it were to make a S-E Asian stopover.

Of course, whether Adelaide has the passenger loads to warrant an A380 service is an entirely different matter.
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Re: Adelaide Airport visions

#37 Post by rev » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:50 pm

Ho Really wrote:
[Shuz] wrote:Distance to CBD is irrelevant so long as you have either high speed rail or a motorway connecting a new airport to the CBD, in which speed would compensate for distance to equal time.
I would assume your new airport would be at Dry Creek or more logically further north, correct? In that case, as it has already been said, you would be disadvantaging those in the southern suburbs. A freeway may one day be built on the entire north-south corridor, but a dedicated high speed rail line no. One of Adelaide's advantages over the other capital cities is its airport location. Let's keep it that way.

Cheers

P.S. The A380 issue is a minor thing.
Aren't people in Melbournes southern suburbs disadvantaged? Or people in Sydneys western suburbs?
Perth's airport is pretty close to their CBD..the distance/time compared to ours is insignificant.
Sydney's airport is only about 7km from their CBD.

I think the benefit of an airport north of Adelaide would be that it could expand and operate without restrictions imposed on it by the current suburban surroundings, and our CBD could also expand and grow without the restrictions imposed on it by flight paths and safety regulations for emergencies with passenger aircraft.

Of course it's pie in the sky stuff because it's never going to be moved..especially not when they have detailed expansion plans for the next few decades that include new terminals.
If our airport was not restricted with a curfew, imagine the possibilities for international flights. Correct me if I'm wrong but Melbourne and Sydney also have curfews?
Maximus wrote:Just to clarify the A380 issue...

Yes, taxiways ideally need to be widened and you would want to have multiple aerobridges for the one gate, but the real sticking point is runway length for take-off. Required runway length for take-off depends on a number of things, including temperature and wind speed and direction, but ultimately it's at the discretion of the pilot. At light loads (e.g. test flights or diversions), the Adelaide runway is more than long enough for the A380 to take off, but at maximum take-off weight, it's pretty marginal. So, an A380 to, say, Singapore might be do-able, but an Emirates A380 to/from Dubai is unlikely, unless it were to make a S-E Asian stopover.

Of course, whether Adelaide has the passenger loads to warrant an A380 service is an entirely different matter.
I think we all want a busier airport with more international flights and connections. We only have half a dozen direct connections to other countries.
An A380 in 3 classes takes about 550 passengers. The commonly used A333 used by most of the international carriers coming to/from Adelaide takes about half that.
So if Singapore were to introduce an A380 to Adelaide, they would have to reduce their weekly flights. That would be a set back no?

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Re: Adelaide Airport visions

#38 Post by Aidan » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:52 pm

rev wrote: Aren't people in Melbournes southern suburbs disadvantaged? Or people in Sydneys western suburbs?
Yes they are, and new airports are proposed to overcome that.
Perth's airport is pretty close to their CBD..the distance/time compared to ours is insignificant.
Sydney's airport is only about 7km from their CBD.
Our airport's proximity to the CBD is an advantage, but not a unique advantage.
I think the benefit of an airport north of Adelaide would be that it could expand and operate without restrictions imposed on it by the current suburban surroundings, and our CBD could also expand and grow without the restrictions imposed on it by flight paths and safety regulations for emergencies with passenger aircraft.
The regulations aren't having a big impact on CBD development. I think a 24 hour operations were the main reason that land near Two Wells was reserved for a future airport.
Of course it's pie in the sky stuff because it's never going to be moved..especially not when they have detailed expansion plans for the next few decades that include new terminals.
If our airport was not restricted with a curfew, imagine the possibilities for international flights. Correct me if I'm wrong but Melbourne and Sydney also have curfews?
You're wrong. Though Sydney has a curfew, Melbourne does not.
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Re: Adelaide Airport visions

#39 Post by Ho Really » Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:31 pm

rev wrote:[...]

I think we all want a busier airport with more international flights and connections. We only have half a dozen direct connections to other countries. An A380 in 3 classes takes about 550 passengers. The commonly used A333 used by most of the international carriers coming to/from Adelaide takes about half that. So if Singapore were to introduce an A380 to Adelaide, they would have to reduce their weekly flights. That would be a set back no?
Yes, it would be a setback. At the moment only Singapore Airlines [and to a lesser extent Malaysia Airlines] caters for both the Asian and European traveller. If they dropped their evening flight, I would think their first option would be a B773. To introduce an A380 there would have to be a huge demand, which I don't see. Out of the other airlines the one with the highest probability for an introduction of an A380 would be Emirates. Why? Because it's their way of doing business. They like to go in heavy. Plus, they just put in a massive order for new planes that include 50 x Airbus A380s and 150 x Boeing 777Xs.

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Re: Adelaide Airport visions

#40 Post by rev » Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:47 pm

They fly the A380 Dubai/Melbourne don't they?
That would be interesting if they included a stop over here on the way in/out.

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Re: Adelaide Airport visions

#41 Post by rev » Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:38 am

People often complain about the airport flight path either because of noise or its supposed impact on our skyline development.

Is there a reason why the smaller runway isn't used as the main or a second main runway? Obviously it would need to be made longer.

It would impact far less residential areas.

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Re: Adelaide Airport visions

#42 Post by Ho Really » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:57 pm

rev wrote:People often complain about the airport flight path either because of noise or its supposed impact on our skyline development.

Is there a reason why the smaller runway isn't used as the main or a second main runway? Obviously it would need to be made longer.

It would impact far less residential areas.
Rev, it's the prevailing winds. Even if the wind is slightly from the side (crosswind) they still takeoff and land from the northeast and southwest. It's amazing to see these heavy jets land in crosswinds. It takes skill. A testimony to great pilots and technology.

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Re: Adelaide Airport visions

#43 Post by electrictechron » Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:36 pm

Can that second runway even handle large aircraft like the 777 and the A350/A380?
In regards to the flight paths, I don't see any reason why they need change as I almost never notice aircraft going over my house in Modbury, which is directly under the flight path.
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Re: Adelaide Airport visions

#44 Post by Ho Really » Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:55 pm

electrictechron wrote:Can that second runway even handle large aircraft like the 777 and the A350/A380?.
The runway is too short. So it wouldn't be safe. If there was an emergency and the planes were completely empty it could be possible to land and takeoff. I think the A350 and B787 could do it in that trim. It would be touch and go though and very unsafe. The B777-300 and the A380 not even empty.

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Re: Adelaide Airport visions

#45 Post by electrictechron » Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:32 pm

Ho Really wrote:
electrictechron wrote:Can that second runway even handle large aircraft like the 777 and the A350/A380?.
The runway is too short. So it wouldn't be safe. If there was an emergency and the planes were completely empty it could be possible to land and takeoff. I think the A350 and B787 could do it in that trim. It would be touch and go though and very unsafe. The B777-300 and the A380 not even empty.

Cheers
I'm going to try landing a 777-300ER (PMDG) in FSX with almost no fuel + zero pax on the north western runway. It should be interesting!
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