Provisions for a subway?

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ml69
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Re: Provisions for a subway?

#16 Post by ml69 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:15 pm

I've been thinking about this for a while ... is there a pressing need to actually run the trains in a through-route (eg Seaford continues to Gawler)? If Outer Harbor and Grange line are converted to light rail, we effectively only have 4 main lines.

Isn't the main issue that we want to get the trains to terminate in the middle of the CBD, rather than at the edge?

Bearing the above in mind, wouldn't a simple solution be to build a new underground terminus station say near the intersection of KW and Currie/Grenfell St. This could be done by simply extending a short 800m tunnel from the rail yards to the new underground terminus. Trains simply turn around as they currently do, on 4 underground platforms.

Station entrances/exits could be built at the following locations:
- Topham (serving western CBD, Riverbank)
- Grenfell Centre (eastern CBD)
- Victoria Square (southern CBD) ... via underground pedestrian tunnel
- Rundle Mall/Gawler Place

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Re: Provisions for a subway?

#17 Post by Norman » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:54 pm

There are very few terminating CBD stations that still exist today. A lot of those are in Japan and the UK, but the overall preference is to move to a through-running system.

There was a preliminary design that showed the railway continuing under North Terrace and then turning at Hindmarsh Square, running south until Wakefield Street and then under Victoria Square through to Keswick.

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Re: Provisions for a subway?

#18 Post by Aidan » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:04 am

Even if it's not a pressing need, it would make rail competitive with driving for many more journeys, and as someone who used to commute from Hallett Cove to Mawson Lakes, I can tell you it would be a big advantage.

And no, a terminus in the middle of the CBD isn't enough. Your station location wouldn't even be convenient for all of the CBD, let alone the rest of the City. We need four stations: one near the existing station, one under Gawler Place, one under Central Market, and one between Whitmore Square and South Terrace. This would serve much of the City directly, and be highly complementary with trams to serve the rest.
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Re: Provisions for a subway?

#19 Post by ChillyPhilly » Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:11 am

A part of me really wants to see a new, more modern and purpose-built CBD railway station. One that's a little bit better at handling large numbers of pedestrians and a bit more cohesive to general movement. Oh, and for it to have more entrances and exits.

Here's the rough idea that's been floated around, running along a route similar to this.

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Re: Provisions for a subway?

#20 Post by fishinajar » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:11 am

ml69 wrote:...we effectively only have 4 main lines...Trains simply turn around as they currently do, on 4 underground platforms.
I think the issue with the arrangement you're proposing is that if you have say two lines tunnelled for 800m and then, I assume, 4 platforms at each station, you can have line congestion. Also a substantial part of these projects are often the underground stations and platforms themselves. If you tunnel all four lines then the cost goes up as well.

vs, if you run just two lines through with just two platforms at each station, and pair off the lines, so Seaford/Gawler and Outer Harbour/Belair, you don't get the same congestion problems "sharing" the two lines and platforms, as all trains are always going through. It also makes trips through the CBD much quicker, eg. going from Mawson Lakes to Noarlunga for instance, without having to go in, and then come back out of the CBD.

The cost of tunnelling two lines through, with two platform stations would likely be extremely cost competitive with tunnelling 4 lines and incorporating the required switches and larger stations.

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Re: Provisions for a subway?

#21 Post by SRW » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:10 am

Anyone game to have a guess what this may cost? Melbourne Metro is costing $11 billion but we're envisaging something much shorter and with fewer stations, so hopefully it'd be only a fraction of that?
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Re: Provisions for a subway?

#22 Post by [Shuz] » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:40 am

Assuming a route as envisioned by the ACC in thier strategic plan - 4.5km length, 4km in tunnels. Could be twin-bore or single bore; 3 stations - Adelaide, Hindmarsh Square & Victoria Square / Central Markets. I'd guess a good $3 billion. Cross River Rail in Brisbane is estimated at $6b.
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Re: Provisions for a subway?

#23 Post by Aidan » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:37 pm

[Shuz] wrote:Assuming a route as envisioned by the ACC in thier strategic plan - 4.5km length, 4km in tunnels. Could be twin-bore or single bore; 3 stations - Adelaide, Hindmarsh Square & Victoria Square / Central Markets. I'd guess a good $3 billion. Cross River Rail in Brisbane is estimated at $6b.
Where does it say that? When I looked in their strategic plan I found no reference to it.
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Re: Provisions for a subway?

#24 Post by Aidan » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:48 pm

ChillyPhilly,
As the originator of the 7 shaped route under the City, your post has me intrigued. Is your map based on any actual plan?

My route runs under Gawler Place to avoid the foundations of tall buildings, but that makes it difficult to avoid running under Parliament House (which isn't technically difficult but might be unpopular with the government). A route further east would avoid that, but there are more obstacles. Your line goes through several, but I can see it's just a sketch. Is there anything more to it?
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Re: Provisions for a subway?

#25 Post by ChillyPhilly » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:13 pm

Aidan wrote:ChillyPhilly,
As the originator of the 7 shaped route under the City, your post has me intrigued. Is your map based on any actual plan?

My route runs under Gawler Place to avoid the foundations of tall buildings, but that makes it difficult to avoid running under Parliament House (which isn't technically difficult but might be unpopular with the government). A route further east would avoid that, but there are more obstacles. Your line goes through several, but I can see it's just a sketch. Is there anything more to it?
Apologies for the tardy reply!

It's based on the ITLUP (Integrated Transport and Land Use Plan, if anyone was wondering):

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Re: Provisions for a subway?

#26 Post by HeapsGood » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:07 pm

nice graphic, do you have a larger version?
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Re: Provisions for a subway?

#27 Post by Goodsy » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:29 pm

HeapsGood wrote:nice graphic, do you have a larger version?
https://i.imgur.com/N8K64tu.jpg

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Re: Provisions for a subway?

#28 Post by bits » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:36 pm

HeapsGood wrote:nice graphic, do you have a larger version?
http://www.dpti.sa.gov.au/__data/assets ... t_Plan.pdf
Page 122.

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Re: Provisions for a subway?

#29 Post by ChillyPhilly » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:21 pm

Just had a thought. I feel the space in front of the Intercontinental can be better used.

How about we extend and continue the facade of Adelaide Railway Station west?
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Re: Provisions for a subway?

#30 Post by fishinajar » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:15 pm

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:21 pm
Just had a thought. I feel the space in front of the Intercontinental can be better used.

How about we extend and continue the facade of Adelaide Railway Station west?
Interesting thought for another thread?

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