SA Liberals propose new road, airport, rail bypass

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Waewick
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Re: Adelaide Hills Freight Bypass

#16 Post by Waewick » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:23 pm

It's always interesting to see the reactions by users.


Some things I wonder without getting hysterical.

Does this plan have coincide with a plan for regional SA?

What's the point of a 24 hr terminal?

How the hell are we going to pay for this since we are already broke.

Will be interesting to see how this is going to be made to work of at all.

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Re: Adelaide Hills Freight Bypass

#17 Post by Waewick » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:27 pm

SBD wrote:It is possible that the economic assessment in 2017/2018 could reach different conclusions than in 2010.
  • Port Adelaide already has (or will soon) 4-lane road access via Port River Expressway, Northern Connector, Northern Expressway and Sturt Highway as far as Nuriootpa
  • A bypass of Truro could be required anyway, with more grain from the Riverland due to closure of the Loxton railway branch
  • Rail corridor is reserved adjacent to Northern Connector so the new northern approach is available
There has also been increased road freight on the Sturt Highway due to closure of the railway to Loxton, so either that part of the road network needs more investment, or possibly the alternate rail route might make that railway viable again for grain transport (and maybe other RIverland product).
I've heard rumours about a bypass for Truro.

Never been able to find something concrete.
SBD wrote:It is possible that the economic assessment in 2017/2018 could reach different conclusions than in 2010.
  • Port Adelaide already has (or will soon) 4-lane road access via Port River Expressway, Northern Connector, Northern Expressway and Sturt Highway as far as Nuriootpa
  • A bypass of Truro could be required anyway, with more grain from the Riverland due to closure of the Loxton railway branch
  • Rail corridor is reserved adjacent to Northern Connector so the new northern approach is available
There has also been increased road freight on the Sturt Highway due to closure of the railway to Loxton, so either that part of the road network needs more investment, or possibly the alternate rail route might make that railway viable again for grain transport (and maybe other RIverland product).

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Re: Adelaide Hills Freight Bypass

#18 Post by Splashmo » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:36 pm

Two things - this is not a planned or costed project, it's a $20m business case study... and, rail line aside, this would be a road to nowhere. Google Maps estimates the journey from Murray Bridge to Port Adelaide via Truro is 204km or 2h21m. Murray Bridge to Port Adelaide via the SE Freeway is 90km or 1h18m.

Why not direct $3.2b towards a new rail line from the CBD to Mount Barker and Murray Bridge via the freeway corridor? That might benefit commuters and freight traffic if it's feasible.
SBD wrote:There has also been increased road freight on the Sturt Highway due to closure of the railway to Loxton, so either that part of the road network needs more investment, or possibly the alternate rail route might make that railway viable again for grain transport (and maybe other RIverland product).
I believe a lot of this grain traffic (which is highly seasonal) uses the Mallee and Karoonda Highways to Tailem Bend where the grain is still loaded onto trains.

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Re: Adelaide Hills Freight Bypass

#19 Post by monotonehell » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:44 pm

And the state Libs do it again. Every election cycle they come up with a grand plan to do something. But it's never more than a back of a napkin sketch and a few graphics done by the intern. Never an economic business plan. Never any specifics.

Holy deja vu, Batman. I'm pretty sure I spoke about this behaviour a few weeks ago.
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SA Liberals propose new road, airport, rail bypass

#20 Post by Aidan » Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:56 pm

SBD,

AIUI the Riverland railay lost most of its traffic around 25 years ago when it was cut back to Loxton. AN thought the future was intermodal, but found that once the freight was loaded onto trucks, most potential customers decided to truck it all the way to Adelaide instead.


Waewick,
The attitude that we're broke is part of the problem. We're not broke, and our credit is excellent.


Splashmo,
Most of the freight is going to the northern suburbs, where the time difference is much less. And speed restrictions for trucks on the freeway reduce the difference even more.

A new railway following the freeway alignment would not be feasible. And the needs of commuters and freight are very different.


Mono,
I don't recall the state Libs doing so last time, though they certainly did the time before.

The real problem is that neither the government nor the opposition wants their own ideas submitted to proper scrutiny.
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Re: SA Liberals propose new road, airport, rail bypass

#21 Post by Splashmo » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:23 pm

Aidan wrote:Most of the freight is going to the northern suburbs, where the time difference is much less. And speed restrictions for trucks on the freeway reduce the difference even more.
I take your point on the freeway speed restrictions, but "much less" time when you compare Port Adelaide to the "northern suburbs"? Hardly, especially when the route goes to the Northern Expressway or Port Wakefield Road. Crossing over the ranges at Truro is no walk in the park either.

If you think an enormous new export-only airport, and a 100km+ new road and rail route are feasible, I'd like to see your argument that a new rail line through the hills isn't also within the realms of possibility. Commuter and freight rail use the same corridors in metropolitan Adelaide already.

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Re: SA Liberals propose new road, airport, rail bypass

#22 Post by bits » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:49 pm

Does it need to go via the existing freeway to Truro?

How about from Gawler to Williamstown then follow B34/B35 etc towards Mannum?

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Re: SA Liberals propose new road, airport, rail bypass

#23 Post by Aidan » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:29 pm

bits wrote:Does it need to go via the existing freeway to Truro?

How about from Gawler to Williamstown then follow B34/B35 etc towards Mannum?
That's a much steeper route – it may be mostly rated for 80km/h but large trucks wouldn't have the braking ability to safely descend at anything like that speed, nor the engine power to sustain it on the way up. Plus it climbs higher than the Truro route, undulates more, and goes through more towns. Compared to the existing freeway, it's much slower and more dangerous.
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Re: SA Liberals propose new road, airport, rail bypass

#24 Post by Aidan » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:33 pm

Splashmo,
Sorry, I somehow overlooked the word "Port" in your post. I agree there's not so much difference there.

Once the new route is up to a decent standard, the government could ban B doubles from the Crafers route (to improve safety) without much economic damage. There's also a realistic possibility of letting road trains use the new route.

Though an airport would be technically feasible, it will (optimistically) be many decades before an airport is economically feasible, and making it freight only (or export only) is a silly idea.

The railway probably wouldn't be entirely new; instead it would incorporate the route of the old Sedan branch. Likewise it makes sense for the road freight route to use existing roads as much as possible, even if that's not what the Libs are proposing.

Railfreight has very different needs from our suburban railways. For heavy freight trains, directness is less important, hence nowadays the Adelaide—Melbourne trains run via Geelong rather than the steeper route via Ballarat. Rail operators want the route as flat as possible, otherwise they'll incur the cost of having to use more locomotives per train. They also need large vertical clearances. But our suburban electric passenger trains can cope with steep gradients without a problem — though not as steep as the South Eastern Freeway!

I think bus rapid transit along the SE Freeway is the best strategy in the short and medium term. A railway (entirely in tunnel) is a long term option, but other routes are far more urgently in need of rail.

I don't think we'll need a new railway traversing under the Mount Lofty Ranges until we need a high speed line to Melbourne... which is far more urgently needed than the Libs' proposed airport
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Re: SA Liberals propose new road, airport, rail bypass

#25 Post by bits » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:20 am

Williamstown exit doesn't look any worse than the current SE Freeway.
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Re: SA Liberals propose new road, airport, rail bypass

#26 Post by bits » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:22 am

And Truro for completeness.


Edit:
There is really no real worthwhile path. Unless you make Grand Junction Road a freeway and just tunnel and bridge straight through the hills at whatever the cost.



http://en-au.topographic-map.com/places/Adelaide-1013/
http://www.maphill.com/australia/south- ... rrain-map/
http://www.ga.gov.au/elvis/
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Re: SA Liberals propose new road, airport, rail bypass

#27 Post by Aidan » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:41 am

bits, are you sure you're looking at the right route from Williamstown?

And even if the Williamstown route doesn't look worse than the SE Freeway (an opinion I don't share) it is much more dangerous, as it's only 1 lane each way and no median strip.

The Truro route is less steep and doesn't climb as high.
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Re: SA Liberals propose new road, airport, rail bypass

#28 Post by bits » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:48 am

Aidan wrote: And even if the Williamstown route doesn't look worse than the SE Freeway (an opinion I don't share) it is much more dangerous, as it's only 1 lane each way and no median strip
I am not saying it would follow or use any existing roads. I assume wherever it goes would be built to a high-speed freeway road.

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Re: New Freight Airport

#29 Post by rev » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:45 pm

Waewick wrote:
rev wrote:The freight council calls this a waste of money.
This isn't a serious proposal because if the Libs were serious about improving our freight and transport infrastructure they'd be consulting with industry bodies.
For the council to call it a waste of money says it all really.
Thanks Jay.
No worries Steven.
Keep reminding South Australian's about your business credentials(failed businesses)..and why that's a reason they should "trust" you.
The fact the Liberal party, so called party that looks after big business, didn't even consult with big bussines and the freight council on this, speaks volumes of the incompetence that is rife within the ranks of the SA Liberal party.
And no, I'm not happy about that. Because for 15 years we've essentially been a one party state because there's been no effective opposition or alternative government to choose.
It's looking like that will continue. Except this time maybe the voters have had enough of Labor and will gift the Liberals an election win, not that they've done or will do anything to deserve being put back in power in this state. Oh well going to be an interesting 18 or so months.
Maybe Steven Marshall can come up with enough big fancy shiny ideas like this to convince the SA public he's actually got a vision for our state?

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Re: SA Liberals propose new road, airport, rail bypass

#30 Post by Pistol » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:22 pm

So much money is spent on freight infrastructure while THE critical path for freight is left to deteriorate and rot away.
Victoria Road from Port Adelaide to Outer Harbour would have to be the worst road in Adelaide.
More emphasis is put on getting traffic out of the area than in and the road is becoming akin to a 4WD track because of truck use.
And with more use by greater volumes of traffic heading to Techport in the not too distant future, this issue is going to get worse.
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