I just got back from Melb and I want to cry

[omada]

Sorry people, but having spent a few days in the wonderful city of Melbourne, I feel kinda depressed being back here. I am not exactly filled with glee at the prospect of shopping or going out in our barren cbd, remembering the experience of the laneways full of interesting bars, shops and a mix of old and new architecture. It's not as if on this site we haven't recognised what needs to be changed in Adelaide, but it's the sheer inactivity of the people who can make the change (ie Govt) that really pisses me off...

I am not an Adelaide basher - but please let me indulge in my frustration with this place.

[cruel_world00]

I hear you omada. I just got back from 9 months of travelling OS and was filled with a new sense of optimism about the potential for Adelaide. I was brought crashing back to Earth when Fleetwood Mac announced their "AUSTRALIAN" tour and left us off the map. I forgot about the ol' skiperoo. I know it's a small thing but it is really frustrating.

[Wayno]

I had the same feeling when living in sydney (suburb of willoughby). My wife and I went to Melbourne for a long weekend hanging out in the cbd lane-ways cafes/restaurants. We shopped alot as well - well my wife did most of that

Arriving back home in Sydney we felt overwhelmed by Sydney being sooo superficial and money focused - it lacks that certain cultural "je ne sais quoi" - and this depressed us. It's one of the main reasons we came back to Adelaide. We do have a pretty good (not yet excellent) blend of all things.

[Will]

Is is innately silly to compare 2 things which are inherently different. Melbourne is a city almost 4 times the size of us. Surely it will have more bars, restaurants, shops and things to do.

Likewise, if you lived in Melbourne and went to Paris, London or Tokyo and came back you would have the same experience.

One of the biggest challenges facing us as a city is that most of us do not accept Adelaide for what it is, a mid-sized city. Once you accept it for what it is, you realise that as a large city it is pretty bad, but that as a mid-sized city, Adelaide is rad. You only have to go to Perth to discover that...



Furthermore, consider that living and holidaying in places are 2 different things altogether. When you are on holidays, everything is new, and you only do fun things. Whereas when you come back, you have to put up with paying bills, driving to work, doing work...

[Ben]

Furthermore, consider that living and holidaying in places are 2 different things altogether. When you are on holidays, everything is new, and you only do fun things. Whereas when you come back, you have to put up with paying bills, driving to work, doing work...

So many people forget this. I could think of about 20 people who have moved to either the Gold Coast or Brisbane only to move back... Yes that's right just because you moved somewhere where you had an awesome time on holiday doesn;t mean if you moved there it would be the same... you have to pay for your bills somehow.

[Vee]

I read this second ‘SA Says’ report last night. It's timely, given this thread.
Seen This? Adelaide. A tale of two cities. (August 2009)
This report by Clemenger BBDO explores how people are feeling about themselves as South Australians.
Download the report from this llink.
http://adelaide.seenthis.com.au/2009/08 ... wo-cities/

It provides perspectives on the 'two cities' that Adelaide has become: an affordable, friendly and liveable city we Adelaideans love but there is an identity crisis and what the report outlines as a 'sting in the tail' with some obvious challenges. Suggestions are up for debate as per this forum!
It's time for a turnaround. 'What are we waiting for?'

[monotonehell]

Visiting Melbourne for a few days, with a pocket full of cash, can be spellbinding. With all the inner CBD frills.

But have you ever tried to actually live in Melbourne? It's a suburban nightmare. Think Kath and Kym and times that by a thousand.

Now if we could invigorate our CBD further (it's already happening, look around you) we would have the best of both worlds.

[Norman]

Whenever I visit Melbourne, I tend to think that "it's OK", it really isn't much more than a bigger version of Adelaide. The suburbs are fairly boring, except maybe some of the tram-lined streets we need more of.

What we need to do is re-invigurate our shopping streets like Prospect Road and King William Road, Unley Road, Goodwood Road, The Parade, Henley Beach Road and so on with more high-density living and tram routes. If we do that and update our CBD with a higher level of density along our main city streets, we'll be like the Melbourne apparently everyone wants to be like.

[stumpjumper]

A sense of gloom and depression on returning to Adelaide from Melbourne is quite normal!

Apart from Melbourne being much bigger etc etc, there is a definite difference in the attitude of the two cities to anything new in the urban sense.

The case of the Yellow Peril sculpture (more formally 'Vault' by Ron Robertson-Swann) is a good example.

In the late 1970's, Melbourne's City Square architects wanted something as a focus point for the remodelled square; something contemporary; sculpture a la mode. What the city got, after a competition decided in May 1978, was officially described as "a yellow painted fabricated steel construction, large in size and brightly coloured".

It was built in 'City Square' but it wasn't really popular, and was eventually cut down and moved out of the way near tghe Yarra, and other work took its place.

The difference between the two cities, is that in Adelaide, the thing would never have been built at all - and we would still be arguing about it.

In Melbourne, people are a bit braver. Give it a go, they say - if it doesn't work we can get rid of it.

In Adelaide, we seem worried by change and the word 'new'. It's the typical cringe of an isolated community. What if it's a mistake, we ask, rather than what if it's a great idea?

The cringe is not terminal. Plenty of small communities have risen above it, but we're not even at the stage where rising above it is an option. We're still arguing about whether or not we have a cringe!

It's not a matter of restrictive planning regimes, it's a matter of the 'authorities' having the guts to embrace new and challenging work, even within the present regime. You can't expect designers to invest time in producing brave new buildings when they think such designs will never be built, while vanilla, cloned examples of boring design can at least be built and let.

Here's an example of what could be - look at the Wien Kunsthaus, a residential development in an old furniture factory in Vienna by artist/designer F Hundertwasser. A million people a year visit it. Our East End's 'Garden East' development could have been something like it, if we had any cojones. (That's Spanish for 'balls' not 'cones', btw.)

Have a look: http://www.flickr.com/photos/berlevag43/2370253487/

[Shuz]

I'm intrigued at the number of claims made that Adelaide and Melbourne shouldn't be compared, because they're two different cities in their own right - apples and oranges. I disagree. Interestingly, If you observed the whole of Australia, they are the two cities most alike! This is largely so from a historical perspective - not so much to the events of the last 50-70 years. But, back then we were the 2nd and 3rd largest cities in Australia respectively, had considerable tram networks, plethoras of historical buildings, well defined city grid layouts, etc. It makes sense to compare to Melbourne, as they are essentially, the older brother, and us the younger sister (the names certainly say so!) It's all part of the "sibling rivalry" - SA vs.VIC?

Their progression in the last 50-70 years is simply what we need learn from. If we can all relate to a personal level, for those who are an older or younger sibling to another - surely their infleunce has impacted your upbringing - attitudes, morals, rebellion, etc. It's all relative (pun intended) and applicable in a larger sense to the upbringing of the Adelaide society. Personally, I see absolutely nothing to fear or lose in looking to Melbourne for food of thought in transforming Adelaide's image. Thiers is a city of tasteful character, lifestyle, adventure in a lot of positive regards, and a city of some mistakes - but who hasn't made those right? I'd further encourage this sibling rivalry between our two great cities, forge a close and formidable relationship - one which yes, we can hate each other's guts at times, but really love each other deep down - they did give us Football, and we gave them Coopers. People elsewhere will be envious of it.

Just as a bit of quick discussion - 50 posts; Name the very first thing you think of that's been successful in Melbourne - who cares if someone's already mentioned it previously - I think the results will show, again how it relates to resolving issues in Adelaide.

[Will]

A sense of gloom and depression on returning to Adelaide from Melbourne is quite normal!

Apart from Melbourne being much bigger etc etc, there is a definite difference in the attitude of the two cities to anything new in the urban sense.

The case of the Yellow Peril sculpture (more formally 'Vault' by Ron Robertson-Swann) is a good example.

In the late 1970's, Melbourne's City Square architects wanted something as a focus point for the remodelled square; something contemporary; sculpture a la mode. What the city got, after a competition decided in May 1978, was officially described as "a yellow painted fabricated steel construction, large in size and brightly coloured".

It was built in 'City Square' but it wasn't really popular, and was eventually cut down and moved out of the way near tghe Yarra, and other work took its place.

The difference between the two cities, is that in Adelaide, the thing would never have been built at all - and we would still be arguing about it.

In Melbourne, people are a bit braver. Give it a go, they say - if it doesn't work we can get rid of it.

In Adelaide, we seem worried by change and the word 'new'. It's the typical cringe of an isolated community. What if it's a mistake, we ask, rather than what if it's a great idea?

The cringe is not terminal. Plenty of small communities have risen above it, but we're not even at the stage where rising above it is an option. We're still arguing about whether or not we have a cringe!

It's not a matter of restrictive planning regimes, it's a matter of the 'authorities' having the guts to embrace new and challenging work, even within the present regime. You can't expect designers to invest time in producing brave new buildings when they think such designs will never be built, while vanilla, cloned examples of boring design can at least be built and let.

Here's an example of what could be - look at the Wien Kunsthaus, a residential development in an old furniture factory in Vienna by artist/designer F Hundertwasser. A million people a year visit it. Our East End's 'Garden East' development could have been something like it, if we had any cojones. (That's Spanish for 'balls' not 'cones', btw.)

Have a look: http://www.flickr.com/photos/berlevag43/2370253487/

Recently you are having more positions than the Kama Sutra!

Aren't you the one who is always complaining about development and how there wasn't sufficient community consultation, and how corrupt the governemnt is for speeding up the development process? Seriously if we had to consult with every Ethel and Harold and have a fully transparent process where the governemnt explains ever decision it has done regarding development, nothing would get done.

However, I agree with your statement : "You can't expect designers to invest time in producing brave new buildings when they think such designs will never be built"

I hope this signals a welcome shift of opinion in your part. Hopefully you have seen how wise the state government's removal of planning powers from the ACC was. The shackles of local politics and the council's overwhelming desire for all new buildings to be beige boxes that blend in with the 'character' of the city was an obstacle to modern inspirational architecture.

[Will]

I'm intrigued at the number of claims made that Adelaide and Melbourne shouldn't be compared, because they're two different cities in their own right - apples and oranges. I disagree. Interestingly, If you observed the whole of Australia, they are the two cities most alike! This is largely so from a historical perspective - not so much to the events of the last 50-70 years. But, back then we were the 2nd and 3rd largest cities in Australia respectively, had considerable tram networks, plethoras of historical buildings, well defined city grid layouts, etc. It makes sense to compare to Melbourne, as they are essentially, the older brother, and us the younger sister (the names certainly say so!) It's all part of the "sibling rivalry" - SA vs.VIC?

Their progression in the last 50-70 years is simply what we need learn from. If we can all relate to a personal level, for those who are an older or younger sibling to another - surely their infleunce has impacted your upbringing - attitudes, morals, rebellion, etc. It's all relative (pun intended) and applicable in a larger sense to the upbringing of the Adelaide society. Personally, I see absolutely nothing to fear or lose in looking to Melbourne for food of thought in transforming Adelaide's image. Thiers is a city of tasteful character, lifestyle, adventure in a lot of positive regards, and a city of some mistakes - but who hasn't made those right? I'd further encourage this sibling rivalry between our two great cities, forge a close and formidable relationship - one which yes, we can hate each other's guts at times, but really love each other deep down - they did give us Football, and we gave them Coopers. People elsewhere will be envious of it.

Just as a bit of quick discussion - 50 posts; Name the very first thing you think of that's been successful in Melbourne - who cares if someone's already mentioned it previously - I think the results will show, again how it relates to resolving issues in Adelaide.

I don't think anyone is saying that we should get inspiration from Melbourne far from it. Indeed, Melbourne can teach us many things, such as how to invigorate our neglected laneways.

However, Literal comparisons I think should not be undertaken for the simple fact that as a smaller city, there is no chance of us having more nightclubs, bars and sporting events than Melbounre. I am responding to the general commnet I hear from many people, which goes something like, "Melbourne has so many more bars than Adelaide" Of course it does! If we had 3.5 million, we'd have more bars too!

[monotonehell]

You know something funny? We DO have a load of small and funky bars in Adelaide. Why don't the people who complain that we have none, go and frequent the ones that we do have so that there's demand for more?

I can't continue drinking for all of you. I don't recover in the mornings as well as I used to.

Check out; Cuckoo, Lotus, FumoBlu, and the 'new' bar at Crown&Sceptre for starters. Get back to me when you've stolen a glass from each.

[jk1237]

I havent heard of Cuckoo. Where's that Mono?

[Wayno]

You know something funny? We DO have a load of small and funky bars in Adelaide. Why don't the people who complain that we have none, go and frequent the ones that we do have so that there's demand for more?

I can't continue drinking for all of you. I don't recover in the mornings as well as I used to.

Check out; Cuckoo, Lotus, FumoBlu, and the 'new' bar at Crown&Sceptre for starters. Get back to me when you've stolen a glass from each.

I'm going to check out CORK this weekend. Gouger St i think. It's a "hole in the wall" style of wine bar - we could easily accommodate several more of these. The bar staff are wine savvy, and treat you to tastes both near and far...