officious grammar thread

[monotonehell]

Only because Wayno asked several times.

My grammar and spelling are bad. But I use a lot of tricks to try to weed out my mistakes before they go public.

One of the best tricks is to re-read everything before you press "Submit". If you're using a recent web browser, those red wiggly lines under all your text aren't decoration; they need your attention.

Here's some tools to make you look less of a fool.


its it's it is...
Almost everyone trips over this one. You can't blame them as it seems to break the rule about possessives. Here's an easy way to get it right. When ever you use "its" or "it's" remember that "it's" is short for "it is". Read the sentence back to yourself expanding the "it's" to "it is". Does it make sense? No? you've used the wrong one.

You just wrote:
"The building's glass colour does not match it's other features."

Now read that back with the expansion:
"The building's glass colour does not match it is other features."

Time to remove that apostrophe.


then than
The problem with us Australians is we slur and mispronounce a lot of our words. No wonder people have trouble spelling. A lot of people can't tell the difference between then and than. They use them interchangeably, or continuously use one in both places.

Here is the modified alphabet for contemporary Australia.
A B C D A F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z

There's no trick for these. You just need to remember...
"Than" with an A is talking about a comparison.
"Then" with an E is talking about time.

"This building is taller than that one."
"First apply the undercoat then the paint."


there their they're
There's a lot of these kinds of words. They sound a bit the same. But they mean different things.

"They're building their building over there."
You can sort them out for yourselves from the context.

[dsriggs]

When writing the title of a thread, you must capitalise every word, sir.

[monotonehell]

When writing the title of a thread, you must capitalise every word, sir.

Only proper nouns and full sentences receive capitalisation.

It is debatable whether a forum thread title has the status of a published work and thus is capitalised or the status of a section title and does not. I'm of the school of thought that they do not.

It's actually a matter of taste and convention than grammar. Different manuals of style hold to three main methods.

1. 'Sentence case'
Where (apart from the absence of a full stop) the title is treated like a sentence. The initial letter is capitalised and no others, unless they are proper nouns. Half-arsed I say. Either you follow all the rules or none.

2. 'Title Case'
This is what most people who use MS Word do. Capitalise Every Word In The Title. This has no basis in logic and is simply a misunderstanding of the rules about titles of literary works, papers, songs, etc.

3. 'grammatical case'
This is what I hold to. It follows standard grammatical rules. Titles that are fragments receive no capitalisation. Titles that are sentences receive proper capitalisation and punctuation.

For example...

What do we understand about ferrets?
This is a title of a section of a document, but is also a full sentence.

ferret behaviour
This on the other hand is just a fragment.


Or I may just be drunk.

[Wayno]

Re. capitalisation - just look at the examples in the S-A forum framework (Board index, The Pub, POST A REPLY, View your posts, DEVELOPMENT DISCUSSION, etc). It's all over the place...

I was recently mauled (can't remember who by) for confusing cue with queue (i too blame alcohol):

• CUE: A signal, such as a word or action, used to prompt another event in a performance, such as an actor's speech or entrance, a change in lighting, or a sound effect. A stimulus, either consciously or unconsciously perceived, that elicits or signals a type of behavior. A long tapered rod with a leather tip used to strike the cue ball in billiards and pool.
  QUEUE: A line of waiting people or vehicles.
  QUE: Spanish word for "that" or "which"

And then there's the classic 'had had'. This stressed me out as a kid: Gerald had had 'had had', while Arthur had had 'had'. 'Had had' had had the teacher's approval.

[Hooligan]

[monotonehell]

...

Nice.

[Waewick]

I have terrible grammar and writing skills, I blame a fair bit on the High School I went to in the early years which, well didn't teach me anything other than how to run away from stoned students and teachers!

I really want to do a course be it uni or industry based but I have no idea where to start looking.

[Wayno]

I really want to do a course be it uni or industry based but I have no idea where to start looking.

youtube maybe? my daughter uses the 'Kahn Academy' series of videos for her science skills/knowledge.

[rhino]

I really want to do a course be it uni or industry based but I have no idea where to start looking.

youtube maybe? my daughter uses the 'Kahn Academy' series of videos for her science skills/knowledge.

I agree, Khan Academy is a brilliant resource for teaching/learning.

[Waewick]

I really want to do a course be it uni or industry based but I have no idea where to start looking.

youtube maybe? my daughter uses the 'Kahn Academy' series of videos for her science skills/knowledge.

well there you go!

[Omicron]

I approve of this thread.

[Maximus]

SNAP! I'd been thinking of starting this thread myself.

A few things...

Only proper nouns and full sentences receive capitalisation.

It is debatable whether a forum thread title has the status of a published work and thus is capitalised or the status of a section title and does not. I'm of the school of thought that they do not.

It's actually a matter of taste and convention than grammar. Different manuals of style hold to three main methods.

...

Mono - I can't agree with this. I'm not aware of any style manual that specifically leaves open the option of not capitalising a title. (Happy to be shown otherwise, of course.) Also, I can't help but think that an un-capitalised title looks horribly unfinished and 'naked'. (Admittedly that could just be the OCD in me.)

I was recently mauled (can't remember who by) for confusing cue with queue

That was me. Sorry, Wayno, I didn't mean to 'maul' you about it. Was just going for a 'subtle correction'.

And finally, my own personal addition to this grammar thread. I'd just like to draw everyone's attention to the evils of the 'comma splice', which is where a comma is used to join to independent clauses. In English this is incorrect (and can contribute to horribly lengthy run-on sentences).

For example:

"I went to the supermarket, I bought some bread." should be corrected with either a semi-colon or a conjunction, as in:

"I went to the supermarket; I bought some bread." or "I went to the supermarket, and I bought some bread." (Note that the comma remains before the conjunction, but would be omitted if the second clause were not independent of the first, i.e. "I went to the supermarket and bought some bread.")

All for now. Long may this thread prosper!

[Wayno]

The word 'improve' is often used out of context. Here's an example.

I'm an RAA member and just received a copy of their SA Motor publication in the mail. On the front cover is an article teaser: "TRAFFIC TORTURE - Improving congestion on our roads".

Hmmm, I would have thought the RAA would be against improving congestion (that is, producing a better quality of congestion). Surely they want to reduce congestion?

[monotonehell]

No Wayno, RAA is about more cars. MOAR CARZ = MOAR MEMBERZ! = MOAR MUNNI!

What you have there is a Freudian slip.

[skyliner]

What a fabulous discussion guys.

I was told that English is a 'dynamic' laguage - changing continuously and so affecting rules to the point that they can't be adhered to as 'rock solid' reference points. My response..how can you correct anything as wrong or right. Their (they're???) response ...not worth mentioning.

However, the point is, the rules make what you write mean what you intend to mean without allowable misinterpretation by anyone.

BTW (careful here/hear) I was taught to capitalise all words of a heading ... way back in the days when english was thoroughly taught. But (starting a sentence inappropriately) the rules have changed....

Jack