Holden 'to close Australian operations in 2017'

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Ho Really
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Re: Holden 'to close Australian operations in 2017'

#91 Post by Ho Really » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:29 pm

Waewick wrote:http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-re ... 4_20140114
he newly appointed head of General Motors international operations, Stefan Jacoby, has admitted it was he who pulled the trigger on Holden’s factory closures -- and that no amount of government money was going to save them, even the so-called “blank cheque” offered by the Labor Government in the final days of the last Federal election.
ouch.
Waewick, the ABC had a reporter in Detroit on December 12, 2013 after the announcement here in OZ. Listen to what the GM spokesman Greg Martin had to say. Dog and others (Jay Weatherill) wasted a lot of breath and played politics for no reason. Sorry to say that.

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Re: Holden 'to close Australian operations in 2017'

#92 Post by Waewick » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:33 pm

Ho Really wrote:
Waewick wrote:http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-re ... 4_20140114
he newly appointed head of General Motors international operations, Stefan Jacoby, has admitted it was he who pulled the trigger on Holden’s factory closures -- and that no amount of government money was going to save them, even the so-called “blank cheque” offered by the Labor Government in the final days of the last Federal election.
ouch.
Waewick, the ABC had a reporter in Detroit on December 12, 2013 after the announcement here in OZ. Listen to what the GM spokesman Greg Martin had to say. Dog and others (Jay Weatherill) wasted a lot of breath and played politics for no reason. Sorry to say that.

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Re: Holden 'to close Australian operations in 2017'

#93 Post by Watto100 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:21 pm

Why aren't you guys disappointed about this? As a whole seems most are saying , I don't want my tax $ spent to support this industry, frig me we have the ingredients to make our cars here, but it's cheaper to shop it over from Korea! I already miss the Australian pm cruising around in an Australian built car

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Re: Holden 'to close Australian operations in 2017'

#94 Post by rev » Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:19 pm

People are disappointed, but some think that it wasn't worth saving while others(like me) like to blame our governments(past) who created the conditions that resulted in Mitsubishi, Ford, Holden closing, as well as many many other manufacturing operations. You know we used to have a textiles industry in Australia employing thousands of people, even thousands employed right here in Adelaide. Do you think anything was done to offset those job losses? Nup, SFA.


Do you think it's ironic that GM now plans on producing more cars in South Korea, and exporting them to Australia? Or that performance models from GM's stable in America will exported to Australia and rebadged as Holdens in right hand drive?

What GM has done is announce it will close production here because it was aware we were negotiating(or have we signed it already?) a FTA with South Korea.
Why make cars here, when they can make them in another country with an FTA with Australia, where they are made cheaper too and then import them here, still at cheaper costs then it is to make them here?

Australia has been whored out to globalization. That's the bottom line.


They now want to increase the migrant intake to over 200,000 a year, because apparently there's a skills shortage and the mines need workers.
5-6% of working age Australian's are unemployed. I'm sure even 1% of unemployed would be more then enough to cover the mining multi-billionaires needs for workers. But of course, hiring Australian's means they have to comply with all work place laws and regulations doesn't it. Because most Australian's will stand up for them selves if they think they are getting screwed over. Whereas foreigners who barely speak the language wont give too much of a shit, and their work performance will reflect that.

I'm sure certain people will of course disagree and defend their blue collar mates. Because you know, Gina and the rest of the billionaire mining tycoons honestly have Australia/Australians best interests at heart. That's how they got super rich after all. :sly:

Manufacturing is a strategic asset for a country. We've now basically lost it. In another fifty years, if not sooner, we will have nothing built locally in this country. It will all be imported.
It's just like the NBN, we need the NBN in all it's glory that was being built under Labor, as much as we need a manufacturing industry. Both are strategically important and vital for the future.

The next thing to go will be ship building unless Abbott fast tracks some projects to keep the shipyards working. If he doesn't, we wont be building our next generation submarines here, we will be buying them from another country.

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Re: Holden 'to close Australian operations in 2017'

#95 Post by Watto100 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:59 pm

.

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Re: Holden 'to close Australian operations in 2017'

#96 Post by Ho Really » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:19 pm

Watto100 wrote:Why aren't you guys disappointed about this? As a whole seems most are saying , I don't want my tax $ spent to support this industry, frig me we have the ingredients to make our cars here, but it's cheaper to shop it over from Korea! I already miss the Australian pm cruising around in an Australian built car
We are all disappointed. In fact everytime a manufacturing industry closes! But let's get real, we can't keep flogging a dying horse. Rev has done some explaining. There could be other motives as well but I won't go into that. Too much talking on this issue has already been done. We now need to be positive and look at innovating our industry (whatever is left of it). Maybe even specialising and diversifying in certain areas. It also has to be sustainable if possible...and who knows what else. So let's look forward.

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Re: Holden 'to close Australian operations in 2017'

#97 Post by Ho Really » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:33 pm

rev wrote:[...]

The next thing to go will be ship building unless Abbott fast tracks some projects to keep the shipyards working. If he doesn't, we wont be building our next generation submarines here, we will be buying them from another country.
You know what? This thing about building submarines, warships and any naval vessels always gets to me. I know they will be used to patrol our borders and used for defence purposes, but primarily they are war machines. Wouldn't it be nice if we could build commercial vessels too? I know we can't compete with China, South Korea, Japan, Vietnam and some other Asian countries, even Europe, but surely there must be a segment where we can compete or be leaders? I know in Tasmania and in Western Australia they still build large catamarans and wave piercers, the Incats and Austals, etc. Used as fast ferries all over the world. So can't we find a niche? Even the luxury yacht market. The biggest builders are in Italy, Holland, USA and Germany, but there's also a reasonable industry in New Zealand. If the Aussie dollar keeps falling this may be an area we should seriously look at. Maybe even take business away from the Kiwis! Just a thought. :wink:

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Re: Holden 'to close Australian operations in 2017'

#98 Post by Hooligan » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:08 pm

Houseboats?

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Re: Holden 'to close Australian operations in 2017'

#99 Post by rev » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:55 pm

Ho Really wrote:
rev wrote:[...]

The next thing to go will be ship building unless Abbott fast tracks some projects to keep the shipyards working. If he doesn't, we wont be building our next generation submarines here, we will be buying them from another country.
You know what? This thing about building submarines, warships and any naval vessels always gets to me. I know they will be used to patrol our borders and used for defence purposes, but primarily they are war machines. Wouldn't it be nice if we could build commercial vessels too? I know we can't compete with China, South Korea, Japan, Vietnam and some other Asian countries, even Europe, but surely there must be a segment where we can compete or be leaders? I know in Tasmania and in Western Australia they still build large catamarans and wave piercers, the Incats and Austals, etc. Used as fast ferries all over the world. So can't we find a niche? Even the luxury yacht market. The biggest builders are in Italy, Holland, USA and Germany, but there's also a reasonable industry in New Zealand. If the Aussie dollar keeps falling this may be an area we should seriously look at. Maybe even take business away from the Kiwis! Just a thought. :wink:

Cheers
Austal, the main company in WA that builds commercial vessels and also built the Navy's Armidale patrol boats, also has a division in America that designed/is building(I think) the US Navy's Littoral Combat Ships. I don't think however Austal is involved in the Air Warfare Destroyers, which btw if you go down to Osborne there is one with the hull completed with the bridge and antenna mast attached sitting in the ASC yard. Quite a site.

Our navy really is too small, as is the rest of our defence force.
Peoples attitudes need to be changed. We can't crew our submarines. But we actually require more of them, and more surface vessels.
There's no actual point in building 12 brand spanking new submarines when we cant crew the 6 we have today.
Yes it will provide work for thousands of people and keep our shipbuilding industry going. But the problems are more complex then simply keeping an industry going.

Like with our other manufacturing industries, Australia is too small to compete.
What our firms like ASC should be doing, is looking to create partnerships with other countries, particularly commonwealth countries. That's what Europe has done with numerous projects. Italy and France have the FREMM/FREDA frigates. A number of countries have the Eurofighter together. A number of countries have the A400M military transport aircraft together. France and Germany have the Tiger attack helicopters. And there's a number of other joint projects from UAV's to military satellites.

It's not like we Canada or New Zealand or even South Africa will become our foes any time soon.
If the government is serious about maintaining our shipbuilding capabilities, which I don't think they actually give a toss to be honest, then they would be exploring these possibilities.
But so far we haven't heard a peep out of them regarding the 12 future submarines let alone any ship projects between the end of the destroyer contracts and then.

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Re: Holden 'to close Australian operations in 2017'

#100 Post by [Shuz] » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:49 am

I already thought we shared our defence force with New Zealand?
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Re: Holden 'to close Australian operations in 2017'

#101 Post by pushbutton » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:19 pm

It's sad Holden's closing. But if a business is not profitable then it must close. If the government props it up, that doesn't really make it a viable business UNLESS the government support is only required as a solution to short term cash-flow problems. Then it might be worth consideration.

In Holdens case I believe they had much more long term problems, and have had numerous years of very generous government support, yet they were still not able to make a profit. Well, sorry, but that's not a viable business and as a taxpayer I'm not willing to support unviable businesses.

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Re: Holden 'to close Australian operations in 2017'

#102 Post by Ho Really » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:25 pm

pushbutton wrote:[...]

Well, sorry, but that's not a viable business and as a taxpayer I'm not willing to support unviable businesses.
Or as a shareholder/investor!

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Re: Holden 'to close Australian operations in 2017'

#103 Post by rev » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:53 am

[Shuz] wrote:I already thought we shared our defence force with New Zealand?
Um, I case you're being serious, no.

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Re: Holden 'to close Australian operations in 2017'

#104 Post by [Shuz] » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:06 pm

So what's the whole ANZAC thing about then? Like, I know we actually have (in name) separate armed, naval and air forces, but we fight alongside each other in all the wars we've been in and share communications / equipment / resources? Or are we actually two completely separate defence forces with no shared resources whatsoever?
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Re: Holden 'to close Australian operations in 2017'

#105 Post by monotonehell » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:22 pm

rev wrote:
[Shuz] wrote:I already thought we shared our defence force with New Zealand?
Um, I case you're being serious, no.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANZUS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_ ... _relations
Exit on the right in the direction of travel.

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