Another widespread power outage in SA

Anything goes here.. :) Now with Beer Garden for our smoking patrons.
Message
Author
User avatar
monotonehell
VIP Member
VIP Member
Posts: 5466
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:10 am
Location: Adelaide, East End.
Has thanked: 192 times
Been thanked: 288 times
Contact:

Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

#166 Post by monotonehell » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:57 am

bits wrote:You know what could be a smart political move?
SA Labor to announce that new gas exploration will be linked to supply of gas fired stations in Adelaide.
SA Liberal have a ban on new exploration which will make for an election argument of "Liberal will withdraw the gas allocated to power stations putting reliability at risk and prices will sky rocket, undoing all the great work SA Labor has done"

The gas will come from liberal stronghold farmland, because that is where the gas is.

The liberals will be bent over a barrel.
Lose votes over power or lose votes over mining in farmland.

Lets find out in 12 hours...
Except that the SA LIb's ban is for onshore fracking, specifically in the South East iirc. Fracking should probably be abandoned as an extraction technique as it's terribly disruptive.

The liquefaction plant has changed the gas market. Previously gas was cheap and plentiful. Now it's a premium export. Time to look elsewhere. Storage seems to be the answer.

Although Mr Koutsantonis this morning said their plan would, "incentivise the production of natural gas from South Australian reserves and make the most of the state's abundant reserves of sun and wind energy." So you might be right.
Exit on the right in the direction of travel.

User avatar
Llessur2002
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1344
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:59 pm
Location: West Croydon
Has thanked: 376 times
Been thanked: 580 times

Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

#167 Post by Llessur2002 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:10 am

Here's the plan:

http://ourenergyplan.sa.gov.au/
Battery storage and renewable technology fund

Goal: Provide South Australia with large-scale storage for renewable energy so power is available when it is needed, beginning the transformation to next-generation renewable technology.

The State Government will establish a $150 million fund to support projects that make renewable energy available 24 hours a day, seven days a week, to power the state when it is needed.

The first project to be funded will be a grid-connected battery – the largest in Australia – to provide the state with 100 megawatts of storage. The battery will modernise South Australia’s energy grid and begin the transformation to the next generation of renewable-energy storage technologies.

The Renewable Technology Fund will provide $75 million in grants and $75 million in loans, to eligible projects, to support private innovative companies and entrepreneurs.

There are a number of large-scale projects under consideration in South Australia, including solar thermal, biomass, hydrogen energy and pumped hydro.
New gas power plant

Goal: Provide South Australia with a government-owned source of emergency electricity generation.

The State Government will build its own gas-fired electricity generator.

Due to the lack of clear national policy settings, investment in new thermal generation has stalled.

The generator will provide up to 250 megawatts of generation, which can be switched on in times of emergency.

At all times, the generator will make South Australia’s electricity supplies more secure by offering the inertia that is needed to stabilise local supplies.

This generator is a strategic future asset to unlock economic growth once the appropriate national energy policy settings are implemented.

The government will go to tender shortly to have the generator in place as soon as possible.

Temporary energy security measure

In the intervening period, the State Government will work with South Australia’s transmission and distribution companies to provide up to 200 megawatts of temporary generation.

This will provide generation for use over short periods in emergency situations where extreme peaks in demand create a shortfall that cannot be met in other ways.
Local powers over national market

Goal: Give South Australia greater local powers over national market operators and privately owned generators.

The State Government will legislate to ensure that South Australian energy users are not held hostage to unwarranted market behaviour.

The Minister for Energy will be given strong new powers to direct the national market in the case of an electricity supply shortfall.

Ministerial direction includes the ability to direct generators to operate and direct the Australian Energy Market Operator to control flow on
the interconnector.

This will ensure every available option is activated to maintain the state’s electricity supply in an emergency situation or when market forces fail.

Drafting of new legislation will begin immediately. The Minister’s power will be used as a last-resort measure if the national market does not act in South Australia’s best interests.

Local assessment of generation applications

South Australia will require applicants for new electricity-generation projects to demonstrate how they add to local energy-system security.

The State Government will give powers to the Office of the Technical Regulator to assess applications for all generators above 5 megawatts.

The goal is to add stability to local power supplies by requiring developers to include power system security services as part of their projects in South Australia.

This move is part of the state’s development of the next generation of renewable energy.

This will complement the Essential Services Commission of South Australia’s decision to strengthen licence conditions for all new generators.
New generation formore competition

Goal: Create more electricity generation to increase competition and put downward pressure on prices.

Every year, the State Government pays millions of dollars to power hospitals, schools and government services.

The government is using its buying power to make the local energy market more competitive and stimulate investment in the right types of generation.

New generation

New electricity generators will enter the South Australian market as a result of the State Government tendering 75 per cent of its electricity needs over the next 10 years.

It is anticipated this procurement will result in construction of a new privately owned generator in South Australia.

Increasing competition in the energy market is the best way to drive down power prices for South Australian households and businesses.

More dispatchable renewable energy

Energy that can be dispatched as it is needed helps to provide energy security. Large-scale storage transforms renewable energy into dispatchable energy.

As part of South Australia’s renewable energy transformation, the government is tendering the remaining 25 per cent of its electricity load to support dispatchable renewable energy initiatives.

The new contracts will commence on 1 January 2018.
South Australian gas incentives

Goal: South Australia to source and use more South Australian gas to generate its own electricity, increasing the state’s self-reliance.

A range of measures is being introduced to incentivise exploration for gas.

Sourcing more local gas

To meet the increasing level of gas-fired generation, the State Government is investing to unlock more of South Australia’s abundant gas resources.

South Australia has vast untapped gas resources. It is estimated the Cooper Basin alone could potentially supply Australia’s energy needs for more than 200 years.

The Plan for Accelerating Exploration (PACE) grant-supported projects are estimated to generate $198 million in prospective expenditure.

The State Government will immediately provide an extra $24 million for a second round of funding to incentivise companies to extract even more gas and create more jobs. This new round will open immediately.

This will increase the supply of South Australian gas into the local energy market. South Australian energy generators, industry and households will have first offering.

Royalties for landowners

A new PACE Royalties Return Scheme will provide 10 per cent of royalties to landowners whose property overlies a petroleum field which is brought into production, opening up new exploration across South Australia.
Energy security target

Goal: Create new investment in cleaner energy to increase competition, put downward pressure on prices and provide more energy system stability.

A new target will require energy retailers to get more electricity from cleaner generators that produce their electricity using South Australia’s abundant natural resources.

In a move to increase South Australia’s energy self-sufficiency, retailers will be compelled to source a percentage of energy from local generators rather than from Victorian coal through the interconnector.

The energy security target is modelled by Frontier Economics. Similar schemes have worked around the country to lower energy prices and stimulate exploration investment.

South Australia is rich in energy producing resources, including gas, solar, wind, biomass and graphite, which is used for batteries.

Analysis by Frontier Economics shows that new investment generated by the energy security target will create more competition and put downward pressure on prices.

South Australia has advocated for a national Emissions Intensity Scheme (EIS) to incentivise investment in cleaner generation. This scheme is not supported by the Federal Government, despite widespread industry and scientific support.

South Australia’s energy security target will transition to an EIS or Lower Emissions Target (LET) if or when national policy changes in the future.

User avatar
mshagg
Legendary Member!
Posts: 543
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:50 pm
Has thanked: 89 times
Been thanked: 123 times

Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

#168 Post by mshagg » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:40 am

Will be interested to hear more on what gas Jay will be burning at his new plant and also how SA legislation will override those that govern AEMO and the NEM. Unless I'm mistaken as to how our commonwealth operates, that seems quite extraordinary?

Also seems to be a bit of a furphy to suggest you can tip $500mil into a scheme and "it wont cost extra". That's someone's money.

But otherwise, good on him. Even though I've not been that concerned about the minor interruptions to our power supply, it has been used as an excuse to beat up on our state and this feels like a pretty good 'FU'.

kenget
Gold-Member ;)
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:33 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

#169 Post by kenget » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:13 pm

mshagg wrote:Also seems to be a bit of a furphy to suggest you can tip $500mil into a scheme and "it wont cost extra". That's someone's money.
This was the Governments response according to an ABC news article:
The Premier said SA taxpayers would not be slugged for the energy plan and the money would come from budget surpluses.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-14/s ... ll/8351450

User avatar
rev
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 3569
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:14 pm
Has thanked: 170 times
Been thanked: 291 times

Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

#170 Post by rev » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:02 pm

mshagg wrote:Will be interested to hear more on what gas Jay will be burning at his new plant and also how SA legislation will override those that govern AEMO and the NEM. Unless I'm mistaken as to how our commonwealth operates, that seems quite extraordinary?

Also seems to be a bit of a furphy to suggest you can tip $500mil into a scheme and "it wont cost extra". That's someone's money.

But otherwise, good on him. Even though I've not been that concerned about the minor interruptions to our power supply, it has been used as an excuse to beat up on our state and this feels like a pretty good 'FU'.
It's not about beating up on our state, and our state is just stuck in the middle of a political shit fight.
It's about the federal Liberal government throwing as much shit as they can at renewable energy and renewable energy targets.

User avatar
mshagg
Legendary Member!
Posts: 543
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:50 pm
Has thanked: 89 times
Been thanked: 123 times

Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

#171 Post by mshagg » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:09 pm

kenget wrote:
mshagg wrote:Also seems to be a bit of a furphy to suggest you can tip $500mil into a scheme and "it wont cost extra". That's someone's money.
This was the Governments response according to an ABC news article:
The Premier said SA taxpayers would not be slugged for the energy plan and the money would come from budget surpluses.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-14/s ... ll/8351450
Yep. That's still someone's money. It's money not spent on a school, hospital, road, or given back to the people who paid it. So in that regard, it does cost us extra. 500 million dollars is not an insignificant amount of money (and analyst comments I've seen suggest it's at the higher end of what it should cost to 'fix' this problem).

I should clarify that im not actually against the plan, but sloppy phrasing can bring it unstuck in the politicking that's sure to follow the announcement.

bits
Legendary Member!
Posts: 532
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:24 pm
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 96 times

Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

#172 Post by bits » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:29 pm

I am confused what Federal Liberal actually want SA to do.

You have Malcolm Turnbull saying:
"But you know the fundamental problem is that you need more generation in South Australia. You need more reliable back-up generation in South Australia."
"But fundamentally the responsibility for keeping the lights on and the air-conditioners on in South Australia is that of the South Australian Government."

https://www.malcolmturnbull.com.au/medi ... a-adelaide


And you have Josh Frydenberg saying:
"We are seeking advice on whether the decision today by South Australia to go it alone is in breach of the national electricity market rules which has kept the system together for the last 20 years."
"Going it alone created SA's problems and going it alone won't fix SA's problems"
"It is very ironic that today, the SA government wants to own a power station and a gas-fired power station when it was its own policies, namely the high uptake of these intermittent sources of power which led to the closure of the northern power station and the moth-balling of Pelican Point."
"Now Labor is trying to fix its own mess. It is confusing and it is nonsense."

http://www.afr.com/business/energy/josh ... 314-guxsvy
http://www.news.com.au/national/politic ... e77a9b115d


So is SA responsible for electricity like Malcolm Turnbull says or is the Federal Government responsible like Josh Frydenberg says?

Josh Frydenberg says to go get gas and burn it:
"So what we need is more gas supply and more gas suppliers.
And that's why we as the Federal Government are imploring these state governments to lift their moratoriums and get more gas out of the ground."

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2016/s4632879.htm

And then complains when SA announces they will.



I an utterly confused what exactly Malcolm and Josh want.
They are quick to say everything is the states responsibility and just as quick to say the states should not do anything.

Malcolm is fairly clear that he is a toothless tiger that is not capable of doing anything productive.
Josh is all over the place contradicting himself and Malcolm.
It is all Federal Government is not responsible or capable of fixing the problem, but apparently the states dare not try to do exactly what the Federal Government said they should do.

crawf
Donating Member
Donating Member
Posts: 5396
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:49 pm
Location: Adelaide
Has thanked: 168 times
Been thanked: 317 times

Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

#173 Post by crawf » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:01 am

I'll be surprised if Turnbull even lasts by the end of this year TBH

User avatar
[Shuz]
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 2518
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:26 pm
Has thanked: 857 times
Been thanked: 237 times

Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

#174 Post by [Shuz] » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:38 am

I'd be surprised if he lasts by May.

This whole political shitfighting over the power has just gotten ridiculously absurd. No wonder voters are out baying for blood and voting minor parties in drovees. You would think after losing two one term governments in VIC and QLD and losing WA by 17.8% swing and retaining a threadbare 1 seat majority the Federal Liberals would do a hell of a lot more to convey a more positive and workable solution to this issue.

Instead they are doing anything but.
Any views and opinions expressed are of my own, and do not reflect the views or opinions of any organisation of which I have an affiliation with.

bits
Legendary Member!
Posts: 532
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:24 pm
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 96 times

Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

#175 Post by bits » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:05 am

Malcolm today announced he will do nothing about gas shortages. It is a state issue.

They say moratoriums should be lifted but that would be SA Liberals blocking that.

It is insane how badly this is all being managed by these morons.

User avatar
monotonehell
VIP Member
VIP Member
Posts: 5466
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:10 am
Location: Adelaide, East End.
Has thanked: 192 times
Been thanked: 288 times
Contact:

Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

#176 Post by monotonehell » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:47 pm

I glanced at the front page of the Advertiser this morning. Incredible editorialised shock headline, presented as a $500,000 electricity bill.
I may not fully agree with the SA Labor plans, but seriously Murdoch rags need to learn how to report news factually instead of spread their propaganda.
Exit on the right in the direction of travel.

kenget
Gold-Member ;)
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:33 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

#177 Post by kenget » Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:21 pm

monotonehell wrote:I may not fully agree with the SA Labor plans, but seriously Murdoch rags need to learn how to report news factually instead of spreading their fake news.
Fixed that for you... hope you dont mind! ;)

User avatar
monotonehell
VIP Member
VIP Member
Posts: 5466
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:10 am
Location: Adelaide, East End.
Has thanked: 192 times
Been thanked: 288 times
Contact:

Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

#178 Post by monotonehell » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:21 pm

kenget wrote:
monotonehell wrote:I may not fully agree with the SA Labor plans, but seriously Murdoch rags need to learn how to report news factually instead of spreading their fake news.
Fixed that for you... hope you dont mind! ;)
Doesn't really work.

In contemporary use, "fake news" are facts that you don't agree with. :banana:
Exit on the right in the direction of travel.

User avatar
mshagg
Legendary Member!
Posts: 543
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:50 pm
Has thanked: 89 times
Been thanked: 123 times

Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

#179 Post by mshagg » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:22 am

Hate to be that guy... but... called it.
mshagg wrote: Federal politicians laugh at us when we have interruptions in South Australia; I think they'll sing a different tune if it happens to NSW.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-16/s ... ly/8358502
The Federal Government will today announce a $2 billion intervention in Australia's electricity supply debate, by expanding the Snowy Mountains hydro scheme in a bid to power up to 500,000 homes.

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull will reveal the plan to increase the current 4,000 megawatt output of the scheme by 50 per cent, which the Government will claim is an "electricity game changer" and will help prevent power shortages in the eastern states.
EDIT: Lol Jay crashes the presser and unloads on Frydenberg on live TV

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-16/j ... ws/8359074

User avatar
monotonehell
VIP Member
VIP Member
Posts: 5466
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:10 am
Location: Adelaide, East End.
Has thanked: 192 times
Been thanked: 288 times
Contact:

Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

#180 Post by monotonehell » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:12 am

mshagg wrote:EDIT: Lol Jay crashes the presser and unloads on Frydenberg on live TV

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-16/j ... ws/8359074
:lol:
About time someone called out Frydenberg, Turnbull, et al on their contradictory rhetoric and failures.
Exit on the right in the direction of travel.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests