[COM] Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

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Hippodamus
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[COM] Re: Victoria Square

#346 Post by Hippodamus » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:02 pm

The redevelopment of Victoria Square seems to have become quite a convoluted issue.

I believe the answer is to keep the square's redevelopment simple. Adelaide should look at examples of European squares as prime examples of public domains which are alive and vibrant. some of smallest towns in Europe, for example Como in Italy (picutred) have some of the most bustling public spaces, and this town's population is equivalent to the population on Adelaide's CBD! Why couldn't this happen here then..?

I believe there are many ways to treat this space and make it more vibrant and useable. But the formula, or the right ingredients to use in this case are not complicated. In order for Victoria Square to become more vibrant, it essentially requires:

1) less impact of traffic and motor vehicles
2) pedestrian access and permeability optimised
3) varieties of useable public open space introduced
4) an iconic strucutre (doesn't have to be tall or dominating, could be some form of symbolic public art)
5) cafe's and restaurants and other small stores filling the square, particularly it's perimetre where possible
6) space for a weekend market
7) space for large gatherings, concerts, etc - with setup of large screen TV's etc
8) underground museum - think along the lines of the Louvre in Paris, having a symbolic entrance within Victoria Square
9) element of water - recycled water to be used for water fountains and other forms of public art, expressing significance of water in this state and showing ways to use it sustainably

Victoria Squares redevelopment is arguably the most important development project in Adelaide! It is the geographic centre of our city, it's potential to market itself as a well used and vibrant public open space, in context with one of the most lively Australian cities of the 21st Century. Something like this our city needs to lift it's profile... no other city in Australia has this opportunity, and I'm affraid it will not live to its fullest potential if we are not careful with the right planning.

some steps to ensure the right planning:

1) special project status - taken away from the ACC and given to the State Government
2) State Government to set up an expert design team, consisting of internationally renown town planners, urban designers and landscape architects from Europe. A special design force by the State Government
3) Community Consultation process - engaging more than just the citizens of the square mile, but trying to encapsulate as much of the South Australian community as possible

these are just some of my ideas.
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[COM] Re: Victoria Square

#347 Post by omada » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:16 pm

dare i say it.... FEDERATION SQUARE..

we should aim for something with a similar multipurpose function and with bold architecture...

As Matt said: Can't something interesting and worthwhile be created out of Victoria Square with an actual purpose, instead of yet another park for people to eat their lunch in before returning to work?
I couldn't agree more

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square

#348 Post by SRW » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:31 pm

Only by initiative of the State Government will Victoria Square become something exemplary. The council will and can only bring it up from dismal to mediocre.

Where is the State Government on this?
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[COM] Re: Victoria Square

#349 Post by BenJ » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:26 pm

As Matt said: Can't something interesting and worthwhile be created out of Victoria Square with an actual purpose, instead of yet another park for people to eat their lunch in before returning to work?
Absolutely agree to this as well. Function is all important here. Nice pavers and trees (even the odd sunken garden arrangement) aren't magnets to bring people into the city at all. The beauty of Fed square is that there are actually things to do there, whether it be watching the cricket on the big screen or drinking a beer at one of the cafes on the periphery, or looking through one of the galleries. Why don't we come up with our own version of this?

I really like the idea of a (very) tall artistic and beacon like structure to mark the centre of the city. Maybe it could even have a viewing platform at the top and light up at night. Wow! I think someone posted a pic of something like this from a Festival in the 60's.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square

#350 Post by monotonehell » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:44 pm

BenJ wrote:I really like the idea of a (very) tall artistic and beacon like structure to mark the centre of the city. Maybe it could even have a viewing platform at the top and light up at night. Wow! I think someone posted a pic of something like this from a Festival in the 60's.
My instant reaction to this kind of idea is to vomit. :lol: I don't think a big pointy thing is the right kind of centrepoint for Adelaide's Vic Square. I'd rather it be about the function(s) of the square, not some white elephant.

BUT if someone can come up with a plan that works I'm willing to have my mind changed. :)
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[COM] Re: Victoria Square

#351 Post by Omicron » Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:49 am

BenJ wrote:
As Matt said: Can't something interesting and worthwhile be created out of Victoria Square with an actual purpose, instead of yet another park for people to eat their lunch in before returning to work?
Absolutely agree to this as well. Function is all important here. Nice pavers and trees (even the odd sunken garden arrangement) aren't magnets to bring people into the city at all. The beauty of Fed square is that there are actually things to do there, whether it be watching the cricket on the big screen or drinking a beer at one of the cafes on the periphery, or looking through one of the galleries. Why don't we come up with our own version of this?
For a site atop the railyards, I agree; for a central city square, I disagree.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square

#352 Post by Tyler_Durden » Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:42 am

Victoria Square's biggiest barrier to attracting more people is what surrounds it. There is very little in the surrounding areas that attract people or even has the potential to attract people. Look at the eastern side in particular. Pretty much the only area of significance in Vic Sq is the Hilton/Gouger Street/Central Markets area. But the attractions in that quadrant are generally away from the actual square. Admittedly there are a couple of bars/cafe's restaurants in the actual square but not anywhere near enough to make it vibrant. And realistically, there is not much scope for that to ever change because what is there takes up all the space already. For Victoria Square to become truly vibrant it needs to be totally surrounded by establishments that attract customers at all times of the day. Ideally we'd have restaurants, night clubs, bars, cafes, a theatre or two, perhaps a cinema, hotels (which it does have), maybe even a retail outlet or two (in my mind I'm imagining a multi storey music store - I know, I'm dreaming). Without more of these things surrounding it I can't really see it ever attracting the necessary foot traffic to become the square we all dream of.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square

#353 Post by Wayno » Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:32 pm

Tyler_Durden wrote:Victoria Square's biggiest barrier to attracting more people is what surrounds it. There is very little in the surrounding areas that attract people or even has the potential to attract people. Look at the eastern side in particular. Pretty much the only area of significance in Vic Sq is the Hilton/Gouger Street/Central Markets area. But the attractions in that quadrant are generally away from the actual square. Admittedly there are a couple of bars/cafe's restaurants in the actual square but not anywhere near enough to make it vibrant. And realistically, there is not much scope for that to ever change because what is there takes up all the space already. For Victoria Square to become truly vibrant it needs to be totally surrounded by establishments that attract customers at all times of the day. Ideally we'd have restaurants, night clubs, bars, cafes, a theatre or two, perhaps a cinema, hotels (which it does have), maybe even a retail outlet or two (in my mind I'm imagining a multi storey music store - I know, I'm dreaming). Without more of these things surrounding it I can't really see it ever attracting the necessary foot traffic to become the square we all dream of.
yep - agree 100%
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[COM] Re: Victoria Square

#354 Post by Queen Anne » Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:40 pm

Tyler_Durden wrote:Victoria Square's biggiest barrier to attracting more people is what surrounds it. There is very little in the surrounding areas that attract people or even has the potential to attract people. Look at the eastern side in particular. Pretty much the only area of significance in Vic Sq is the Hilton/Gouger Street/Central Markets area. But the attractions in that quadrant are generally away from the actual square. Admittedly there are a couple of bars/cafe's restaurants in the actual square but not anywhere near enough to make it vibrant. And realistically, there is not much scope for that to ever change because what is there takes up all the space already. For Victoria Square to become truly vibrant it needs to be totally surrounded by establishments that attract customers at all times of the day. Ideally we'd have restaurants, night clubs, bars, cafes, a theatre or two, perhaps a cinema, hotels (which it does have), maybe even a retail outlet or two (in my mind I'm imagining a multi storey music store - I know, I'm dreaming). Without more of these things surrounding it I can't really see it ever attracting the necessary foot traffic to become the square we all dream of.
My husband and I were talking about this too. It's a bit of a worry. My hubby says many more people living on the southern end of KWS are needed - people for whom the square would be part of their route to and fro, and their backyard too.
Caroline

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square

#355 Post by monotonehell » Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:25 pm

Tyler_Durden wrote:Victoria Square's biggiest barrier to attracting more people is what surrounds it. There is very little in the surrounding areas that attract people or even has the potential to attract people. Look at the eastern side in particular. Pretty much the only area of significance in Vic Sq is the Hilton/Gouger Street/Central Markets area. But the attractions in that quadrant are generally away from the actual square. Admittedly there are a couple of bars/cafe's restaurants in the actual square but not anywhere near enough to make it vibrant. And realistically, there is not much scope for that to ever change because what is there takes up all the space already. For Victoria Square to become truly vibrant it needs to be totally surrounded by establishments that attract customers at all times of the day. Ideally we'd have restaurants, night clubs, bars, cafes, a theatre or two, perhaps a cinema, hotels (which it does have), maybe even a retail outlet or two (in my mind I'm imagining a multi storey music store - I know, I'm dreaming). Without more of these things surrounding it I can't really see it ever attracting the necessary foot traffic to become the square we all dream of.
Bit of a chicken and egg situation isn't it? The main function of that area is offices and the Central Market. The majority of Central Market patrons drive directly up the ramps into the UPark and walk down into the markets. So they wont be emerging from their shopping cocoon to utilise the Square. Office workers might cross the square to get lunch and back, but that's about it. And now that the tram doesn't terminate in the square, passengers to the CBD just cruise on through.

Whatever happens in the square, it will need to be driven by some function(s) that it currently doesn't serve. That function(s) will dictate the kind of use(s) the square will see and at what times that use(s) will occur.

If the courts move from the Samuel Way building into a new building on the corner of Wright Street, I'd like to see the old Moore's dept store retro fitted into a high end, multi level shopping mall (and could a cinema go in there?) that interfaces with the Central Markets. That might be the impetus for further development and use into the square's area from that corner and the start of transformation into something more lively.
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[COM] Re: Victoria Square

#356 Post by ozisnowman » Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:49 pm

If they had built the proposal that we have seen before by KBR it would have provided a glass domed
pavillion tht would have been able to house outdoor concerts etc... perfect for adelaide festival
, adelaide guitar festival, adelaide caberet, womadelaide events not to mention christmas carol
singing and new years eve parties etc.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square

#357 Post by alfer7_3 » Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:33 am

Victoria Square is like a black hole in the city, there is nothing there to attract people there. it is little more than an inconvenience for people trying to get from one place to another. rather than being way too optimistic i think realistically and financially possible a car park should be built under the square with wakefield st/grote st going under the square where these car parks will be accessed from. in the geographical centre of the square a monumental structure like a tower which is current architecture in design not something is recrafted of the 19th c. in that little grassed are on the corner of wakefield st and vic sq next to the new sa water building a buildng which would be attractive and controversial in design could inhabit that space well. it could be the adelaide museum, a tourist info centre, gallery and have outdoor space which spills into the square which should be used every weekend of the year for buskers, performing artists, during the fringe, classic adelaide, tour down under, adelaide festival, womadelaide, clipsal 500, caberet festival, the guitar festival and the list can go on. there is alot of potential for the square it just needs to be recognised, cheers

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square

#358 Post by monotonehell » Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:25 pm

I probably started it (again lol I'm a bad boy) but we're straying away from the topic of this thread, which is to discuss current situations and official announcements regarding Vic Sq.

The thread to add your visions and ideas to is here...
http://www.sensational-adelaide.com/for ... =17&t=1429
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[COM] Re: Victoria Square

#359 Post by Tyler_Durden » Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:50 am

Queen Anne wrote:My husband and I were talking about this too. It's a bit of a worry. My hubby says many more people living on the southern end of KWS are needed - people for whom the square would be part of their route to and fro, and their backyard too.
Caroline
It's a good point. Vic Sq may be the geographical centre of the city but demographically it is on the fringe right now.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square

#360 Post by Joely » Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:45 am

Yea I agree Tyler. Though Victoria Square is technically the 'heart' of the city, it feels as if its the end of our CBD as there is really nothing much beyond that. I really hope that the approval of some larger buildings south of the city is a trend which continues to help stretch the CBD southwards to help the square to become more of a central focal point of the city.

Btw, if you guys have time, check out my proposal for Victoria Square in the visions thread :mrgreen:
http://www.sensational-adelaide.com/for ... a&start=60

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