[COM] Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

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omada
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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1606 Post by omada » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:04 am

I understand about the stages of the development, but why wasn't the main structural work "squaring of the square" done to begin with? "Lack of funding" was cited, but I think the real reason was cowardice and a lack of vision. Kudos for the work up til now, lets hope the funding gets allocated soon, but sadly I don't expect so.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1607 Post by Wayno » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:22 am

omada wrote:I understand about the stages of the development, but why wasn't the main structural work "squaring of the square" done to begin with? "Lack of funding" was cited, but I think the real reason was cowardice and a lack of vision. Kudos for the work up til now, lets hope the funding gets allocated soon, but sadly I don't expect so.
Unclear why the roads weren't squared in phase 1. Dollars and politics most likely. Love the fact that Rau is on board. He's a progressive "can do - push it through" kinda guy. Gotta respect that. Reminds me of Foley - without the drinking and swearing...
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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1608 Post by Nathan » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:42 am

Mostly because the 'squaring the square' part is the single most expensive part of the entire redevelopment - and as we know, state and federal governments wouldn't come to the party.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1609 Post by Waewick » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:09 am

Nathan wrote:Mostly because the 'squaring the square' part is the single most expensive part of the entire redevelopment - and as we know, state and federal governments wouldn't come to the party.
that is my memory as well.

removing the thoroughfare, whilst personally annoying is the correct path to take I shouldn't see Wakefield street as the quick way through the city.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1610 Post by monotonehell » Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:43 am

Are we rewriting history already? Yarwood is only one term ago and already he's being blamed for Vic Sq being "a mess" when it was he who got the ball rolling with stage one completed, and the current Council who stopped all further works.

And to those above who said that the current set up is only being used for the TDU and the Fringe etc. They obviously have not observed that the grassed area is being used daily by the general public for everything from eating their lunch, to kicking a footy around, to organised fitness classes. Previously the square was just a wasteland you walked through to get to the tram.
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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1611 Post by Waewick » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:29 pm

monotonehell wrote:Are we rewriting history already? Yarwood is only one term ago and already he's being blamed for Vic Sq being "a mess" when it was he who got the ball rolling with stage one completed, and the current Council who stopped all further works.

And to those above who said that the current set up is only being used for the TDU and the Fringe etc. They obviously have not observed that the grassed area is being used daily by the general public for everything from eating their lunch, to kicking a footy around, to organised fitness classes. Previously the square was just a wasteland you walked through to get to the tram.
I am not blaiming Yarwood.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1612 Post by claybro » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:09 pm

At least this is still getting some air, and not languishing at the bottom of some council in box with fear of even being mentioned. The "Squaring of the roads" will do a lot to calm traffic for the centre park and open the square even if not much more is done in the meantime.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1613 Post by SRW » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:30 pm

Apart from the funding issue, I think the strategy in stage 1 was to recreate Victoria Square as an attraction. Once people saw its potential, the momentum would stay for further stages. You can just imagine if the square had been squared but the interior remained the same, people would be knocking the redevelopment as a waste of money.

I really do hope that Rau and the council come together on this. The masterplan if fully realised would be an iconic space.
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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1614 Post by metro » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:53 pm

I'm just hoping the ACC dont do what they're doing with Hindley Street to Victoria Square with the "slippery" pavers :?

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1615 Post by monotonehell » Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:05 am

Waewick wrote:
monotonehell wrote:Are we rewriting history already? Yarwood is only one term ago and already he's being blamed for Vic Sq being "a mess" when it was he who got the ball rolling with stage one completed, and the current Council who stopped all further works.

And to those above who said that the current set up is only being used for the TDU and the Fringe etc. They obviously have not observed that the grassed area is being used daily by the general public for everything from eating their lunch, to kicking a footy around, to organised fitness classes. Previously the square was just a wasteland you walked through to get to the tram.
I am not blaiming Yarwood.
That wasn't the royal "We" ;)

I was addressing the article above.
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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1616 Post by Waewick » Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:59 am

SRW wrote:Apart from the funding issue, I think the strategy in stage 1 was to recreate Victoria Square as an attraction. Once people saw its potential, the momentum would stay for further stages. You can just imagine if the square had been squared but the interior remained the same, people would be knocking the redevelopment as a waste of money.

I really do hope that Rau and the council come together on this. The masterplan if fully realised would be an iconic space.
I agree, whilst many people still bag Vic Square, I've never seen it used so much in non festival times before.

and I agre, hopefully with the cash coming in they can finish it.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1617 Post by serca » Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:35 am

Exactly, Vic square has a great energy to it year round now.

Of course they need to complete the southern section, can't remain as it is maybe less is more with what the do there.

Can someone explain what exactly is the positives to squaring the square? Assuming its for better logistics but how?

If they "square the square" is the intention to remove the east/west corridor?

As stated before it all seems back to front, This will affect to overall design and landscape of the northern section now it's complete

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1618 Post by Nathan » Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:47 am

serca wrote:Exactly, Vic square has a great energy to it year round now.

Of course they need to complete the southern section, can't remain as it is maybe less is more with what the do there.

Can someone explain what exactly is the positives to squaring the square? Assuming its for better logistics but how?

If they "square the square" is the intention to remove the east/west corridor?

As stated before it all seems back to front, This will affect to overall design and landscape of the northern section now it's complete
First stage was designed to fit in with the eventual squaring.

The benefits of squaring the roads would be:
– More efficient use of space
– More planting on the perimeter which helps create a visual and aural buffer to the road
– Better access (only having to cross one road, rather than two from some directions)
– Discourages use of KWS as a thoroughfare for traffic.

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1619 Post by MessiahAndrw » Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:16 am

I know this would have been politically unviable, but imagine if they would pedestrianise the ring of roads around Victoria Square. Victoria Square is my 2nd favourite square after Moseley Square in Glenelg, mostly because Moseley Square doesn't have a road wrapped around it. It's 100% continuous people space. If Victoria Square ran straight up to the building fronts, it would easily be, in my opinion, The Best Square in Adelaide, worthy of any world city.

So imagine if Victoria square did not have a ring of roads around it, and instead extended all of the way up to the building fronts. It would be surrounded by premium office and residential space, since you could simply ride a lift to the ground floor and step outside into The Best Square in Adelaide. Restaurants can put seating in front of their shop and customers can actually sit in The Best Square in Adelaide, and not on the footpath across the street to The Best Square in Adelaide.

Concerning traffic:
- The cheap option that would tick off motorists: Pedestrianising Victoria Square would deduce demand so you'll see less motorists using the CBD as a thoroughfare. We are working on the North-South Corridor to handle much of this traffic.
- The expensive option that would please motorists: Connecting Wakefield St/Grote Street and King William Street with an underpass under The Best Square in Adelaide.

What do you think?
My blog on urban design: http://www.andrewalexanderprice.com/blog.php

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[COM] Re: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

#1620 Post by monotonehell » Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:09 am

MessiahAndrw wrote:I know this would have been politically unviable, but imagine if they would pedestrianise the ring of roads around Victoria Square. Victoria Square is my 2nd favourite square after Moseley Square in Glenelg, mostly because Moseley Square doesn't have a road wrapped around it. It's 100% continuous people space. If Victoria Square ran straight up to the building fronts, it would easily be, in my opinion, The Best Square in Adelaide, worthy of any world city.

So imagine if Victoria square did not have a ring of roads around it, and instead extended all of the way up to the building fronts. It would be surrounded by premium office and residential space, since you could simply ride a lift to the ground floor and step outside into The Best Square in Adelaide. Restaurants can put seating in front of their shop and customers can actually sit in The Best Square in Adelaide, and not on the footpath across the street to The Best Square in Adelaide.

Concerning traffic:
- The cheap option that would tick off motorists: Pedestrianising Victoria Square would deduce demand so you'll see less motorists using the CBD as a thoroughfare. We are working on the North-South Corridor to handle much of this traffic.
- The expensive option that would please motorists: Connecting Wakefield St/Grote Street and King William Street with an underpass under The Best Square in Adelaide.

What do you think?
We've discussed this before many times over the years.
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2946
viewtopic.php?p=140711#p140711

I think it's a good idea for all squares. But looking into the logistics of an underpass, the run up required to go deep enough uses too much room and creates barriers elsewhere. So I ended up with something along these lines...
Image
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