[SWP] Lot 14 (Old RAH Site)

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SouthAussie94
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[SWP] Re: Former RAH Site (Design Competition)

#361 Post by SouthAussie94 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:48 pm

zippySA wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:46 am
This really must go down as one of the greatest government mis-management fiasco's in SA history. This site was confirmed as being vacant in 2009 when they signed the new RAH contract - and they have even had an extra 18 months to prepare, and now, less than a month after moving out - we have nothing confirmed except that tax-payers will be footing an enormous bill to demolish and clear the site (I thought when announced that "tax-payers will not pay a cent for this magnificent development" or words to that effect).
My guess is nothing will happen now until after March 2018 when we figure out who is in power (Libs, Labour or Nick X) and then they can start planning something real.

I remain totally opposed to residential on this site though so am not overly disappointed to see 1200+ apartment deal fall over. We have an entire square mile of CBD including the entire S-W quadrant and more that could be developed for 100+ years for residential, without permanently creating apartments oddly placed outside of the square mile. Construct civic buildings by all means, but not residential.
I'm really in two minds about residential development on the site.

I completely understand and agree with your argument about there being so much undeveloped land within the CBD proper that would be suitable for residential development in the future, therefore building residential outside of the square mile would be a mistake.

However, I'm also of a belief that for this redevelopment to be successful, it needs to create spaces that people want to spend time in. There's no point building fantastic public spaces if they turn into lifeless wastelands at 5pm when the art gallery/museum/whatever-happens-to-be-built closes (The same goes for night time focused activities if they're dead wastelands during the day). Whatever is developed on the site should be a catalyst for making this area a major drawcard for the city.

Numerous developments interstate and overseas have shown that incorporating residential into these kinds of developments is one of the best ways of ensuring that they don't turn into lifeless wastelands. People living on site by default means that there will be people around 24/7.

That's not to say that I support 1200 apartments being built on site. Personally, I think that it's the lazy way of ensuring 24/7 activity on site. Properly designed public spaces should incorporate things that will attract people throughout the day. Cafes for breakfast, attractions for the day, restaurants for dinner, attractions or events for the evening. These would help to ensure that there are always people around.

Private apartments would also help to subsidise the public spaces being developed, potentially allowing higher quality/better public spaces to be built.

I don't support building apartments on site, but at the same time I wouldn't be completely outraged if they do end up being built as I could understand the reasoning behind it.
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[SWP] Re: Former RAH Site (Design Competition)

#362 Post by zippySA » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:15 am

It's a good point - bit of a catch 22. One thing that keeps frustrating me though, is the government's assertion that injecting residential and hence the much longed for 24/7 activation will "save the East end" (ignoring that pretty much only Hindley St has 24/7 activation and that's not perfect example - if someone can name an Adelaide suburb or area truly "alive" after 9-10pm any weekday outside of events I'll be impressed).
As mentioned in many posts, a major urban development on this site will also include no doubt multiple venues (bars, restaurants, shops etc) that will retain these residents within their locality (at least a decent % of the time) and not bleed across fully into East End. All we do is migrate further activity from within the CBD to old RAH site.
I don't have the answers I know - but be interesting to hear ideas on ways to develop something on this site that draws people as well as adding to the local economy more - a multi-purpose indoor stadium jumps to mind though I'm sure if a concert hall and or contemporary museum also get built here it could cause some conflict - but that would draw regular decent crowds outside of typical business hours who all need to visit the East End for pre and post food and drinks perhaps?
Just throwing it out there

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[SWP] Re: Former RAH Site (Design Competition)

#363 Post by floplo » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:50 am

Three years ago they could have cornered the market on student housing, but given the pipeline for that I don't think that's really feasible anymore.
Any other 'public' housing possibilities? Defence Housing? Retirement places? Refugee housing?


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[SWP] Re: Former RAH Site (Design Competition)

#364 Post by claybro » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:32 pm

Apartments on their own do not create vibrancy 24/7. The East end is full of apartments, and yet there is a perception it is dying. Apartments however will need to be a part of the mix to help fund this massive undertaking. They should be a good mix a well, not just students, or retirees, but a genuine mix. Sport related activity ie indoor multi stadium as zippy suggests is probably better located at memorial drive, in keeping with the "sporting precinct". Could one of the heritage buildings be turned into a boutique hotel? And we are agonising over where to have the modern art complex, well surely this is the right location, and if events were held there into late evening, performances, lighting shows, interactive sculpture, surely this would activate the location, and with a few residential components, create a bulk so the area doesn't feel like a desolate park?

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[SWP] Re: Former RAH Site (Design Competition)

#365 Post by bits » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:58 pm

Move Cafe De Vilis there, that place is packed out 24/7.

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[SWP] Re: Former RAH Site (Design Competition)

#366 Post by serca » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:44 pm

Oh dear! I was afraid this would happen with Commercial and General in charge. Let's hope something will be salvaged!
[/quote]

Why whats wrong with Commercial and General? I think its a good thing to have SA owned company as the developer.

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[SWP] Re: [VIS] Re: Former RAH Site (Design Competition)

#367 Post by Norman » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:23 pm

serca wrote:Oh dear! I was afraid this would happen with Commercial and General in charge. Let's hope something will be salvaged!
Why whats wrong with Commercial and General? I think its a good thing to have SA owned company as the developer.[/quote]Sure, but just because they are South Australian doesn't make them good. Their track record in delivering things, especially for the government hasn't been great, just look at the building asset sale and the ORAH process. I think they were also involved in the Gillman site dilemma.

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[SWP] Re: Former RAH Site (Design Competition)

#368 Post by serca » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:26 pm

Yeah fare call I'm not sure about Gillman st ?? I know a years ago they messed up with a development in Yankalilla, but besides that i thought they had a good reputation. The new police head quarters and next door the Calvary Hospital is trekking along and the new development at Westlakes i guess as developers all has gone pretty smooth on their behalf.

I think this is bitter sweet falling through anyways. Now time will tell if the new plans for development with improve or potentially be worse.

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[SWP] Re: Former RAH Site (Design Competition)

#369 Post by Llessur2002 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:37 am

Renewal SA now have the old RAH site listed as a project on their website:

https://renewalsa.sa.gov.au/projects/fo ... ital-site/

Interestingly they have a staging plan which shows the Eleanor Harrald Building being retained - I hope this is true for the long term, not just until 2020.

https://renewalsa.sa.gov.au/wp-content/ ... ng-map.pdf

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[SWP] Re: Former RAH Site (Design Competition)

#370 Post by Nathan » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:45 am

They're going to keep the Hanson Institute building and the car park? Why?
And what's the point of keeping the IMVS on site?

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[SWP] Re: [VIS] Re: Former RAH Site (Design Competition)

#371 Post by Llessur2002 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:59 am

Nathan wrote:They're going to keep the Hanson Institute building and the car park? Why?
And what's the point of keeping the IMVS on site?
This is what makes me wonder whether this is just a short term plan for the site...

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[SWP] Re: Former RAH Site (Design Competition)

#372 Post by OlympusAnt » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:08 pm

Algernon wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:33 pm
zippySA wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:46 am
This really must go down as one of the greatest government mis-management fiasco's in SA history.
Not even a pimple on the butt of the state bank collapse or the sale of ETSA for nothing
State Bank Collapse by a long way

The old LeCornu site is up there as well, heading towards 40 years now.
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[SWP] Re: Former RAH Site (Design Competition)

#373 Post by Honey of a City » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:53 pm

Llessur2002 wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:37 am
Renewal SA now have the old RAH site listed as a project on their website:

https://renewalsa.sa.gov.au/projects/fo ... ital-site/

Interestingly they have a staging plan which shows the Eleanor Harrald Building being retained - I hope this is true for the long term, not just until 2020.

https://renewalsa.sa.gov.au/wp-content/ ... ng-map.pdf
This just looks like a kicking the can down the road exercise. Be interesting to see who the "Short-Term Rental" customers are going to be until 2020-21, in the middle of a demolition site. And how their fit-out is going to be timely and cost effective with such a short term lease. The only decisive and positive development in this staging seems to be to return of the land to the Botanic Gardens, along the east side. Apart from that, we're none the wiser.

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[SWP] [VIS] Re: [VIS] Re: Former RAH Site (Design Competition)

#374 Post by Llessur2002 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:53 pm


Honey of a City wrote:Be interesting to see who the "Short-Term Rental" customers are going to be until 2020-21, in the middle of a demolition site.
The Uni of Adelaide have already expressed an interest in utilising some of the red brick buildings on Frome Road during the implementation of their masterplan - I'd be surprised if they'd overlook such close and relatively stately accommodation for something further from their campus. The new VC is by all accounts a fan of expansion and rumour is that plans are still very much underway for some new buildings so I'd be surprised if there wasn't a need for such space in the relatively near future.

As for the rest of the plan - I agree it does feel a bit like a can kicking exercise, hopefully plans will evolve and get more exciting as time progresses.


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[SWP] Re: Former RAH Site (Design Competition)

#375 Post by Norman » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:06 pm

There is a few small projects happening on the old site, including a "The Hive" project (not related to the one at Riverbank) and some lighting installations. They are due to come online in a few days.

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