[COM] Memorial Drive upgrade

[omada]

I can't see a business case for an upgrade of Memorial Drive unfortunately, I for one, am a little weary of my tax dollars going toward sporting precincts.

I don't think we could even get back an ATP Tournament ? As that went to Brisbane.

[ozisnowman]

With the Casino Upgrade and other developments this should go ahead.
It also seems the are thinking of a reasonable size 12-15k as its gone from 150mil to a 300mil proposal. With tennis the need to get a ATP 500 or ATP 1000 event here

[rev]

I can't see a business case for an upgrade of Memorial Drive unfortunately, I for one, am a little weary of my tax dollars going toward sporting precincts.

I don't think we could even get back an ATP Tournament ? As that went to Brisbane.

It’ll be used for more then just tennis.

Why couldn’t we get an ATP or even a women’s tournament?
Why couldn’t we host Davis Cup or take the Hopman Cup?
Because we had a tournament once and lost it because of poor facilities and another state built better facilities...? What sort of defeatist attitude is that man?

Projects like this, like Adelaide Ov, the motorways being built, the pt upgrades, new tallest buildings on our skyline, new international airlines flying to/from our city, are what should be giving Adelaidians confidence in our city.

[Mpol03]

The lead up to the Aus Open honestly needs another week, but that’s a discussion for a whole other thread and forum. As it stands there are numerous tournaments leading up but I do feel we can host a 250 or 500 event successfully.
A venue that can host many other events is very welcome. Bring concerts into the city is also ideal. Then they can re-develop the Ent Centre. Just fruit for thought.

[ml69]

The lead up to the Aus Open honestly needs another week, but that’s a discussion for a whole other thread and forum. As it stands there are numerous tournaments leading up but I do feel we can host a 250 or 500 event successfully.
A venue that can host many other events is very welcome. Bring concerts into the city is also ideal. Then they can re-develop the Ent Centre. Just fruit for thought.

We need to see a multi-purpose arena as part of something much bigger than just a sports and concert arena in the riverbank precinct.

More potential event days in the riverbank precinct builds the case for cafes, restaurants and bars overlooking the Torrens between the Riverbank footbridge and Morphett St bridge (on both sides of the river).

This, in turn, adds vitality which increases perceived safety and becomes a future must-visit location for visitors to Adelaide (in a similar vein to Southbank in Brisbane and Melbourne).

[CDJ]

I worked on the Rod Laver Arena redevelopment in Melbourne (currently under construction). The key thing to understand is that while it gets a bit of attention each Feb for tennis, the vast majority of its usage and revenue is from concerts.

A multi-use facility in Memorial Drive would bring concerts, basketball and netball into the city, similar to what Adelaide Oval has done for footy. People will attend events on the riverbank which they would never attend at current locations like Findon and Thebarton. I would expect the venue could be heavily utilised, regardless of tennis. It needs to be suitably sized though (approx 12,000-15,000) to justify having it. A smaller venue seems pointless as it will just compete with existing medium-size venues.

[Patrick_27]

I worked on the Rod Laver Arena redevelopment in Melbourne (currently under construction). The key thing to understand is that while it gets a bit of attention each Feb for tennis, the vast majority of its usage and revenue is from concerts.

A multi-use facility in Memorial Drive would bring concerts, basketball and netball into the city, similar to what Adelaide Oval has done for footy. People will attend events on the riverbank which they would never attend at current locations like Findon and Thebarton. I would expect the venue could be heavily utilised, regardless of tennis. It needs to be suitably sized though (approx 12,000-15,000) to justify having it. A smaller venue seems pointless as it will just compete with existing medium-size venues.

This. Though, something tells me that a lot of people here have the wrong idea about size... The previous government wanted smaller as not to impose of the uses of their upgraded Entertainment Centre and people on this thread seem to want a 20,000 capacity arena which is way over the necessary capacity.

[rev]

I worked on the Rod Laver Arena redevelopment in Melbourne (currently under construction). The key thing to understand is that while it gets a bit of attention each Feb for tennis, the vast majority of its usage and revenue is from concerts.

A multi-use facility in Memorial Drive would bring concerts, basketball and netball into the city, similar to what Adelaide Oval has done for footy. People will attend events on the riverbank which they would never attend at current locations like Findon and Thebarton. I would expect the venue could be heavily utilised, regardless of tennis. It needs to be suitably sized though (approx 12,000-15,000) to justify having it. A smaller venue seems pointless as it will just compete with existing medium-size venues.

This. Though, something tells me that a lot of people here have the wrong idea about size... The previous government wanted smaller as not to impose of the uses of their upgraded Entertainment Centre and people on this thread seem to want a 20,000 capacity arena which is way over the necessary capacity.

Way over the necessary capacity? What's the necessary capacity? How did you come to that conclusion on the necessary capacity?
I'm interested to know if it's just your opinion, or if there's valid points behind that.

As an example, AAMI stadium was rarely sold out. So what reason was there to redevelop a smaller stadium into a 52k capacity venue?
But low and behold, in a much better location, a similar sized capacity stadium to AAMI with better facilities/amenities actually draws in bigger crowds.

[Patrick_27]

I worked on the Rod Laver Arena redevelopment in Melbourne (currently under construction). The key thing to understand is that while it gets a bit of attention each Feb for tennis, the vast majority of its usage and revenue is from concerts.

A multi-use facility in Memorial Drive would bring concerts, basketball and netball into the city, similar to what Adelaide Oval has done for footy. People will attend events on the riverbank which they would never attend at current locations like Findon and Thebarton. I would expect the venue could be heavily utilised, regardless of tennis. It needs to be suitably sized though (approx 12,000-15,000) to justify having it. A smaller venue seems pointless as it will just compete with existing medium-size venues.

This. Though, something tells me that a lot of people here have the wrong idea about size... The previous government wanted smaller as not to impose of the uses of their upgraded Entertainment Centre and people on this thread seem to want a 20,000 capacity arena which is way over the necessary capacity.

Way over the necessary capacity? What's the necessary capacity? How did you come to that conclusion on the necessary capacity?
I'm interested to know if it's just your opinion, or if there's valid points behind that.

As an example, AAMI stadium was rarely sold out. So what reason was there to redevelop a smaller stadium into a 52k capacity venue?
But low and behold, in a much better location, a similar sized capacity stadium to AAMI with better facilities/amenities actually draws in bigger crowds.

Because you have to measure the popularity of its uses. Tennis is popular and might see a venue of 10-15,000 at capacity at times, depending on the event and the calibre players the event attracts; basketball has a consistently high number attendance at its 8,000 capacity venue, this could grow but again is dependant on how popular basketball is (I'd have said it's still quite a niche sport here in Australia); netball has proven its ability to sell in large numbers at the AEC but that's usually around finals time (when it's required) and even then AEC is 11,500 capacity; and then we have live music, having actually worked in this industry I know a little bit - the type or location of the venue usually has nothing to do with a lot of people's decision to buy tickets to see an artist (it's usually the ticket price), so if Adelaide still can't sell out popular acts at AEC in the standard 9,000 capacity concert mode, how do people expect that the numbers will grow? Especially enough to justify a 20,000 capacity arena? Considering in both Melbourne and Perth their premier arenas are 15,000-ish in capacity for live music and they do just fine, I can't see why we should be aiming to build a venue on par with the capacity of Australia's largest arena in Sydney (a city of 4.5 million people).

Personally, I'm all for the integration of tennis, netball, basketball and arena size live music events into one multi-purpose venue, centrally located next to Adelaide Oval. Why? Because it's convenient for many, it's nearby all forms of PT, hotels and the like and it brings us on par with how a lot of other state capitals run this kind of infrastructure, multi-purpose as opposed to singular-purpose. It's a no-brainer. But to suggest the significant increase in attendance that was saw for AFL when it moved to AO will absolutely apply with events held at a new CBD arena, it's merely speculation and doesn't have any ground because both scenarios are completely different. That's not to say we shouldn't be investing in a new arena, there are many reasons to do it (some of those I mentioned), but when there is suggestion that we should have an astronomically high capacity like 20,000 for the sake it, well, that's just ridiculous.

[rev]

This. Though, something tells me that a lot of people here have the wrong idea about size... The previous government wanted smaller as not to impose of the uses of their upgraded Entertainment Centre and people on this thread seem to want a 20,000 capacity arena which is way over the necessary capacity.

Way over the necessary capacity? What's the necessary capacity? How did you come to that conclusion on the necessary capacity?
I'm interested to know if it's just your opinion, or if there's valid points behind that.

As an example, AAMI stadium was rarely sold out. So what reason was there to redevelop a smaller stadium into a 52k capacity venue?
But low and behold, in a much better location, a similar sized capacity stadium to AAMI with better facilities/amenities actually draws in bigger crowds.

Because you have to measure the popularity of its uses. Tennis is popular and might see a venue of 10-15,000 at capacity at times, depending on the event and the calibre players the event attracts; basketball has a consistently high number attendance at its 8,000 capacity venue, this could grow but again is dependant on how popular basketball is (I'd have said it's still quite a niche sport here in Australia); netball has proven its ability to sell in large numbers at the AEC but that's usually around finals time (when it's required) and even then AEC is 11,500 capacity; and then we have live music, having actually worked in this industry I know a little bit - the type or location of the venue usually has nothing to do with a lot of people's decision to buy tickets to see an artist (it's usually the ticket price), so if Adelaide still can't sell out popular acts at AEC in the standard 9,000 capacity concert mode, how do people expect that the numbers will grow? Especially enough to justify a 20,000 capacity arena? Considering in both Melbourne and Perth their premier arenas are 15,000-ish in capacity for live music and they do just fine, I can't see why we should be aiming to build a venue on par with the capacity of Australia's largest arena in Sydney (a city of 4.5 million people).

Personally, I'm all for the integration of tennis, netball, basketball and arena size live music events into one multi-purpose venue, centrally located next to Adelaide Oval. Why? Because it's convenient for many, it's nearby all forms of PT, hotels and the like and it brings us on par with how a lot of other state capitals run this kind of infrastructure, multi-purpose as opposed to singular-purpose. It's a no-brainer. But to suggest the significant increase in attendance that was saw for AFL when it moved to AO will absolutely apply with events held at a new CBD arena, it's merely speculation and doesn't have any ground because both scenarios are completely different. That's not to say we shouldn't be investing in a new arena, there are many reasons to do it (some of those I mentioned), but when there is suggestion that we should have an astronomically high capacity like 20,000 for the sake it, well, that's just ridiculous.

So having the city, with all it's pubs, cafes, retaurants, bars, clubs, etc, that people can go to before or after a concert(or netball, basketball, tennis), wont have a positive impact on attendances?

Why is 20,000 astronomically high, compared to 15,000?

It could simply be a matter of retractable/movable seats to allow the change in configuration, and therefore capacity.
Maybe the new venue could go up to 20,000, does that necessarily mean that there needs to be 20,000 seats available for the netball or basketball?

btw, they are ripping up the outdoor courts.

[Algernon]

A 20k capacity venue doesn't stack up for sporting uses. Adelaide barely has an international tennis tournament. The highest draw would be NBL which typically attracts at most 20k viewership nationally on STV (and almost never makes the top 20 national STV ratings list). The 36ers didn't even fill the 8k capacity of the Findon stadium for their finals matches. The low viewership doesn't indicate much latent support.

For basketball and netball we already have 2 really good venues as is.

[claybro]

A 20k capacity venue doesn't stack up for sporting uses. Adelaide barely has an international tennis tournament. The highest draw would be NBL which typically attracts at most 20k viewership nationally on STV (and almost never makes the top 20 national STV ratings list). The 36ers didn't even fill the 8k capacity of the Findon stadium for their finals matches. The low viewership doesn't indicate much latent support.

For basketball and netball we already have 2 really good venues as is.

I think you'll find, the existing venues are the reasons for the problems you mention. SA doesn't have a major tennis event, because it does not have a suitable facility (the existing Entertainment Centre is not suitable for world class viewing of tennis), and the basketball centre in Beverley is difficult to get to, heavily car reliant, not surrounded by other pre/post game attractions like pubs and restaurants, and a bit of a joke by national standards now. Once the Wildcats moved to the Perth Arena, they regularly started pulling near capacity crowds. It is central, easy to get to, and great for Perth CBD on game days as the 10000 plus "red army" arrive in the city. The Hopman Cup, would have been lost by Perth, had the new arena not been built, and now year on year draws capacity crowds. A re-developed area at Memorial Drive I think would have the same impact on Adelaide, and probably a 15k capacity similar to Melbourne Park and Perth Arena would be ideal for the location.

[Algernon]

In the case of the Wildcats though, they've always been the leader in the pack. They have the most committed ownership and there's a thread of westralian parochialism that reaches into other sports more readily than other states. If you look to Melbourne which has no shortage of top notch indoor venues and a population (and registered participation) larger than both Adelaide and Perth, it's a bloodbath for basketball franchises. Same for Sydney - even the Kings died at one point. The loss of SE Melbourne/North Melbourne/Victoria Giants, South Dragons, Kings (at one point), Razorbacks et al can't be attributed to poor facilities. The reality of professional basketball in Australia is it's a bloody expensive hobby for franchise owners.

For tennis the problem isn't necessarily all about having a competitive venue with other Australian cities, but also the congestion in the ATP/WTP calendar. We're competing in a global marketplace and players are generally landing in the country days before the tournament then flying straight out again. A week before the Australian Open they're competing for petro dollars in Doha. We'll never outspend those folks (and tournament prestige is all about the prizemoney). And tournaments in Brisbane, Sydney and Perth are already competing with that. The pie can only be cut so many times.

[Ho Really]

For tennis the problem isn't necessarily all about having a competitive venue with other Australian cities, but also the congestion in the ATP/WTP calendar. We're competing in a global marketplace and players are generally landing in the country days before the tournament then flying straight out again. A week before the Australian Open they're competing for petro dollars in Doha. We'll never outspend those folks (and tournament prestige is all about the prizemoney). And tournaments in Brisbane, Sydney and Perth are already competing with that. The pie can only be cut so many times.

Yes it has all to do with sponsors, prizemoney and the schedule. Wanted to say this days ago but you said it for me. It's the same with the golf that we lost years ago. I used to cover both when I was a photojournalist and it is sad they are gone. As for a stadium I doubt 20,000 seats could fit at Memorial Drive. Fifteen thousand perhaps, but 8,000~10,000 for sure. Whether we will ever fill it for a tennis tournament of any type is a good guess. If we don't have a quality stadium we'll continue to be a backwater in this regard...

Cheers

[ml69]

We just need a high-quality medium-sized arena with about 12,000 capacity. Bigger than AEC (~9000 ppl) but doesn't have to be at Rod Laver Arrna size (~15,000 ppl).

That's what Adelaide Oval is ... high-quality, big but not too big.