[VIS] Memorial Drive upgrade

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claybro
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[VIS] Re: Memorial Drive upgrade

#271 Post by claybro » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:39 am

rhino wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:20 am
I could be wrong here, but it seems to me that the people who attend soccer matches at Hindmarsh have no problem with the stadium or it's location, but the people who don't attend soccer matches think we would be better off spending megadollars and building a multi-sport venue at what they consider a better site, that if they are honest, they will probably never go to anyway.
Its not just about soccer, and soccer fans though. Governments spend money on stadia, to attract sporting one off events, such as Commonwealth games, international tournaments and create "vibrancy" and renewal. If the various codes have their sh.t together, then they can grow their market off the attraction of the new venue. Experience has shown that new stadia and venues significantly increase attendance of existing sports if they are well located, and provide a comfortable experience. Crows and Port crowds increased significantly with AO. The Wildcats in Perth have the best home attendances in their league, since moving to the then new Perth Arena, and West Coast, and Fremantle have also increased their crowds by about 20-30 per cent since the new Optus stadium. The benefit for the government is spin off economic activity, increased tourism, urban renewal of the old sites, and the elusive "vibrancy" of the new precincts, in relation to the existing CBD. Adelaide will get left behind in attracting valuable sporting tourism if it does not keep up, and as has been mentioned here, even the smaller regional cities are now in the mix.

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[VIS] Re: Memorial Drive upgrade

#272 Post by Brucetiki » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:09 am

crawf wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:16 pm
Brucetiki wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:36 pm
Another issue is - would the 36ers and Thunderbirds want to move from their current locations?

The reason TSA was built in the first place was so basketball didn't have to share a venue with concerts (and the scheduling clashes that come with it).
Seems to work well in Perth with their city arena.
At the time BASA (and the 36ers) opted to build TSA, Perth, Sydney, Brisbane and the various Melbourne-based teams were playing in their respective Entertainment Centres, but BASA wanted control of their own stadium, hence TSA was built. Ultimately many of these clubs went into financial difficulty resulting in a combination of moving into smaller stadiums, folding, or being expelled from the league.

Don't get me wrong it would be a great opportunity for the 36ers to move to a new city arena, but they've declined the move once before, and I'm not sure if they'd be financially better off with the move.

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[VIS] Re: Memorial Drive upgrade

#273 Post by Algernon » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:12 pm

claybro wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:39 am
rhino wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:20 am
I could be wrong here, but it seems to me that the people who attend soccer matches at Hindmarsh have no problem with the stadium or it's location, but the people who don't attend soccer matches think we would be better off spending megadollars and building a multi-sport venue at what they consider a better site, that if they are honest, they will probably never go to anyway.
Its not just about soccer, and soccer fans though. Governments spend money on stadia, to attract sporting one off events, such as Commonwealth games, international tournaments and create "vibrancy" and renewal. If the various codes have their sh.t together, then they can grow their market off the attraction of the new venue. Experience has shown that new stadia and venues significantly increase attendance of existing sports if they are well located, and provide a comfortable experience. Crows and Port crowds increased significantly with AO. The Wildcats in Perth have the best home attendances in their league, since moving to the then new Perth Arena, and West Coast, and Fremantle have also increased their crowds by about 20-30 per cent since the new Optus stadium. The benefit for the government is spin off economic activity, increased tourism, urban renewal of the old sites, and the elusive "vibrancy" of the new precincts, in relation to the existing CBD. Adelaide will get left behind in attracting valuable sporting tourism if it does not keep up, and as has been mentioned here, even the smaller regional cities are now in the mix.
It's all too easy to lend weight to what is largely an emotional argument to build a new stadium by pointing to a whole list of events that could plausibly be hosted there. Let's build this - we can host the commonwealth games. It's not an economic decision, and it's not realistic. We will never host the Commonwealth games. We even won the rights once then gave them up. Rugby League plays one off matches at Hindmarsh, so it's adequate for that purpose. There is no suggestion whatsoever the NRL has a desire to increase the number of fixtures in Adelaide, nor is there any suggestion that the NRL will expand to the point of reconsidering an Adelaide franchise - the NRL used our expulsion from the league as a sweetener to merge Super League and the ARl in the first place. The last expansion occured in 2007 and the Gold Coast, despite being a city in a state that plays the game, has been an abject failure. Other regions in SEQ such as Ipswich and Brisbane itself have open bids. If the NRL wanted to expand into a non traditional state, WA has twice the population and actually some form of organised competition and bidder for a license. Adelaide will not get an NRL team for the entire life of this new stadium. At best it's intellectually dishonest to state it's plausible.

Rugby union is in freefall and has just gone through the process of culling teams from its professional competition. The Western Force were filling Subiaco in their early days, and again, there is a far stronger presence of the sport in WA than in Adelaide, due to migration both from the rugby states but also South Africa. There will be no Super Rugby franchise in Adelaide for the entire life of this stadium. Rugby administrators didn't just go through a blood letting process deciding between culling WA and Victoria from the competition so they could turn around and expand into Adelaide. What nonsense.

The reason why soccer should be listened to is that it's the only tenant and will be the only tenant for the forseeable future. To try to bring basketball into this to hamfist some sort of "multi purpose" venue idea - an idea which is largely untried throughout the world for likely a very good reason - reeks of alterior motives. That motive being, the SMA doesn't care about the viewing experience for the only sport that would play there. They just want to leech off the corporate hospitality of other sporting events for their own benefit.

When decisions are made that attempt to shut out literally the only stakeholder, it is by design a flawed process. When that stakeholder has a great venue, when its fans are saying they like it, when they are saying we don't need hundreds of millions wasted on giving us something we don't want or need, to turn around and say we're building it anyway? Bureaucracy gone mad.
Last edited by Algernon on Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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[VIS] Re: Memorial Drive upgrade

#274 Post by rev » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:15 pm

Brucetiki wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:09 am
crawf wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:16 pm
Brucetiki wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:36 pm
Another issue is - would the 36ers and Thunderbirds want to move from their current locations?

The reason TSA was built in the first place was so basketball didn't have to share a venue with concerts (and the scheduling clashes that come with it).
Seems to work well in Perth with their city arena.
At the time BASA (and the 36ers) opted to build TSA, Perth, Sydney, Brisbane and the various Melbourne-based teams were playing in their respective Entertainment Centres, but BASA wanted control of their own stadium, hence TSA was built. Ultimately many of these clubs went into financial difficulty resulting in a combination of moving into smaller stadiums, folding, or being expelled from the league.

Don't get me wrong it would be a great opportunity for the 36ers to move to a new city arena, but they've declined the move once before, and I'm not sure if they'd be financially better off with the move.
What we need is to move the major stadiums to the city. We already have Adelaide Oval that has the AFL and Cricket, the tennis will hopefully get a new multipurpose roofed stadium that can also accommodate the basketball and netball, maybe even a smaller secondary arena. If the soccer moved to the city in a new rectangular stadium, the management of the stadiums, in a stadium precinct, could be put in the hands of a reconfigured SMA, that has a representative of all the relevant sporting codes governing bodies, but is majority an independent organization to deliver the best outcome for the stadiums.
Shared stadiums would reduce the cost burden to the clubs from each code.
If the 36ers shared a stadium with the netball and tennis, that also attracted other one of codes events or concerts and other events, that would significantly reduce the cost of being the sole tenant in a stadium.

Port and the Crows have both benefited from the move to the city, no reason why these other clubs/codes won't benefit as well from a similar move..
Just my :2cents:

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[VIS] Re: Memorial Drive upgrade

#275 Post by ChillyPhilly » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:39 pm

While AO has benefited Port and Crows off the field in various ways, the stadium deal is far from desirable for either side. It's not as good as was first mooted pre-2014, and even after the review last year, it still takes a crowd of 45-50,000 to break even on expenses. On-field display aside, with a dull fixture and poor timeslots, this is certainly something Port don't achieve on a frequent basis at best, and even the Crows struggle to do same. The SMA is made up of greedy dinosaurs who have had their time in the sun many years ago and need to walk away - yesterday.

Someone wrote in this thread about Adelaide not getting an Asian Cup game. Aside from the fact that the State Government was outbid by other states, this was down to two factors at the time:
- The gradient at Adelaide Oval (aside from Levels 3 and 5) does not meet AFC regulations for viewing
- Additionally, Hindmarsh does not meet the minimum capacity for international matches (25k or higher).

I'm not sure Hindmarsh can accommodate Union or League because the ends of the pitch don't allow enough space for an in-goal area. While the play area may fit, other necessary space will not. The AEC (owner) mentioned years back about potentially modifying one of the stands to extend the length of the pitch to allow for it, but it's a ridiculous stretch for an occasional one-off game that will just butcher the pitch - reputed as one of the country's best for football.
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[VIS] Re: Memorial Drive upgrade

#276 Post by crawf » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:13 am

This is starting to gain momentum.
Lord Mayor Martin Haese endorses Adelaide railyards site for proposed new multipurpose arena
Paul Starick, Chief Reporter, The Advertiser
October 9, 2018 8:00pm
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... da8337f008

LORD Mayor Martin Haese is endorsing the city railyards as a site for a proposed multi-use arena, which would house concerts, entertainment and major sports.

A site south of the River Torrens, west of the Morphett St bridge and north of the railyards is being examined as part of a business case being prepared for the ambitious arena.

It is understood this would involve building over an existing carpark and extending over the railyards — similar to an arena planned for Brisbane’s centre — with tunnels underneath for trains.

The Advertiser last month revealed another site in the Riverbank precinct, north of the Torrens and west of Montefiorie Rd, was being examined for the proposed concert, event, soccer, tennis and basketball arena.

Mr Haese, the outgoing Lord Mayor, told The Advertiser: “My personal opinion is that building over the railyards has merit and could prove to be an efficient use of space. It also substantially reduces the impact on the Parklands.”

The business case has been commissioned by the Adelaide Venue Management Corporation, which operates the Adelaide Entertainment Centre, Hindmarsh Stadium and Adelaide Convention Centre.

The latter is on the opposite side of the Morphett St bridge to the proposed railyards site. Arena costs and concept designs are being prepared.

One option involves selling off the Entertainment Centre for commercial use, potentially a new shopping centre, and using Hindmarsh Stadium for housing.

SA Football Commission chairman John Olsen, who last month urged serious consideration of the emerging opportunity for a multipurpose arena near Adelaide Oval, said any proposal should seek to maximise the arena’s use by incorporating as many activities as possible, to get economies of scale.

“International trends indicate the days of sport centres or arenas being used only one day a week are gone. By multipurpose use, costs can be spread across a range of activities,” said Mr Olsen, who is also the state Liberals president and Adelaide Oval Stadium Management Authority deputy chairman.

“Any centralised facility, however, should only be considered whilst also meeting the needs of local/community sporting grounds.”

Sport Minister Corey Wingard said a business case had yet to be presented to the State Government.

“There’s more work that needs to be done to gain a better understanding of what it can bring to South Australia, including what it will mean for sports development in the state,” he said. An indoor arena and entertainment precinct is proposed for central Brisbane, built over Roma St railyards, including a 17,000-seat concert and sports venue, plazas and an entertainment, dining, retail and commercial zone

A formal business case for the fast-tracked development, which has been modelled on the LA Live hub in Los Angeles, is due later this month. The LA Live hub includes 13 eateries, a14-screen cinema and the STAPLES Centre, which has hosted multiple sports and entertainment legends, such as the LA Lakers.

Adelaide Venue Management Corporation chief executive Anthony Kirchner declined to comment.
Artist impression missing a couple of recently built key buildings :?

Image


Thread title should be changed to VIS: Memorial Drive Upgrade / Adelaide Arena

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[VIS] Re: Memorial Drive upgrade

#277 Post by fifty » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:36 am

Called it

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[VIS] Re: Memorial Drive upgrade

#278 Post by ChillyPhilly » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:20 am

This little spot has been an eyesore for a while. Would be a great location, but AEC's thinking is wrong if they want to lump AUFC in there too. United aren't merely a tenant of one of their properties, and nor would the whole nonsense idea of changing surfaces be wise, either.
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[VIS] Re: Memorial Drive upgrade

#279 Post by mattwinter » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:36 am

Would be interesting to see if this is affected by plans for the CBD Rail loop...

Like the spot though, and would be great for an indoor arena. Hopefully it'd be integrated with a Western exit to the railway station. Need a soccer specific stadium somewhere in the area too though I reckon.

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[VIS] Re: Memorial Drive upgrade

#280 Post by PeFe » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:30 am

This thread should be merged with the "Opening up the western end of the Adelaide Rail Yards" in the Vision section.

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[VIS] Re: Memorial Drive upgrade

#281 Post by [Shuz] » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:37 am

Wouldn't affect any CBD loop as the provision for the tunnel portal exist further west of the development site.

This would be a costly project though - they'll need to deck above the rail lines (like Federation Square) which alone would cost about $100m to support an arena. And then add in another $300m or so on top of that for the building itself.

I can't see a soccer stadium being built on the site though. It would be pretty much just for tennis, basketball, netball and concerts, which doesn't really justify the outlay I think. They're better of to stick to the redevelopment plans for War Memorial Drive, which would be cheaper.
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[VIS] Re: Memorial Drive upgrade

#282 Post by claybro » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:57 pm

[Shuz] wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:37 am
Wouldn't affect any CBD loop as the provision for the tunnel portal exist further west of the development site.

This would be a costly project though - they'll need to deck above the rail lines (like Federation Square) which alone would cost about $100m to support an arena. And then add in another $300m or so on top of that for the building itself.

I can't see a soccer stadium being built on the site though. It would be pretty much just for tennis, basketball, netball and concerts, which doesn't really justify the outlay I think. They're better of to stick to the redevelopment plans for War Memorial Drive, which would be cheaper.
I agree. Keep the sport and entertainment precinct North of the river, and save this side for further uni/ medical research or hospital accommodation.

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[VIS] Re: Memorial Drive upgrade

#283 Post by Patrick_27 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:08 pm

I'm with ChillyPhilly, the fact that there is serious consideration for AUFC to be bunched in with this project is ridiculous. Part of the reason Hindmarsh can't be used for concerts during the summer is because the soccer is always on and that takes precedence (as it should). Release AUFC from their contract and let them find themselves private donors for a new venue as they have wanted to do for years.

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[VIS] Re: Memorial Drive upgrade

#284 Post by rev » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:12 pm

That proposal is just stupid and lazy.
Besides it ignoring the two uni buildings as mentioned already, it ignores the fact there's ample space to the left.
What, does it need to line up at 90 degree angles with the morphett bridge does it?

You aren't going to fit soccer in with the 'court' sports. It's not feasible.

Also, now that that side of the riverbank has been turned into a bio-medical precinct, it should be used as that and that only.

We had the chance to create a huge entertainment/public precinct along the river bank, and we went with a bio-medical precinct for a huge swathe of the area, an expansion of the convention center, upgrades to Adelaide Oval, an office tower and an extension to the casino.

Where's the planning in any of it? It's a huge mismatch.

Demolish War Memorial Drive and next gen, and build a new multi use facility for the "court" sports and small concerts etc, and there's plenty of room on the other side of the King William st bridge directly opposite Adelaide Oval on the east for a new rectangular stadium.
Over the railyards they should further expand the convention center, but combine it with a new entertainment center, linked directly over the bridge/road.
Hindmarsh Stadium and the existing Entertainment Center can be turned into higher density housing, and easing the pressure on urban sprawl a little.


And also, the surface surrounding the Adelaide Arena image, what did they do, copy and paste a car park to create it?

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[VIS] Re: Memorial Drive upgrade

#285 Post by SRW » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:17 pm

I agree with the sentiment that now we have a biomedical precinct, for which the chief benefit is agglomeration economies, the area west of Morphett St should be reserved for that use. Any further expansion of the the convention centre can occur on the old North Tce portion and by replacing the (hideous) Riverside Centre. A multi purpose arena (for music and court sports only) should be proximate to the oval at Memorial Drive.
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