[APP] SAHMRI Stage 2

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Norman
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[APP] Re: SAHMRI Stage 2

#16 Post by Norman » Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:35 pm

ghs wrote:
noted wrote:
Norman wrote:And why shouldn't he? If he didn't people would call him lazy for not exploring all opportunities to create jobs and improve the economy.
Yep absolutely, just as the feds should try and get other sources to fund it if they can. This should still go ahead, all this looks like is a bit of cat and mouse to see who will pay for what. Mind you it would've been nice if Flinders could have come out with this before the election. Securing funding would've been much easier.
If it's really such a good project for SA then why does the Federal government need to fund it ?

Why doesn't the state government chip in a lazy $220 million ?

I guess the state government can't afford it because the local economy is a disaster.
Because it has national benefits, being the only proton machine of its kind in Australia and, indeed, the Southern Hemisphere. So the whole nation should chip in.

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[APP] Re: SAHMRI Stage 2

#17 Post by Patrick_27 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:06 pm

I'd be interested to see how much $$ the Federal Government have chipped into medical projects interstate... And before any of you say 'nothing' take a look at Victoria's health system, you don't get something that good without a leg up here and there. Considering our state government forked out the entire sum for the RAH and will no doubt be doing the same for the new Women's and Children's (whenever that happens), I think it's quite fair for there to be the expectation that the feds will chip in for SAHMRI 2. Hell, they've barely chipped in anywhere else... When you look at how many marginal seats there were in SA in the last election and what the Coalition put on the table for local voters, it really wasn't much. Our metropolitan train system is still fucked, our tram network isn't likely to see any major progress before the end of the decade, the remaining chunks of South Road remain unfunded, and as ghs kindly pointed out, our local economy is at a level that could be considered worse than the period following the State Bank collapse.

I think this goes beyond just the Federal funding anyway. Flinders are seemingly up shit-creek and probably were looking for an escape route; they've still got a sizeable debt from the new hub at Bedford Park, as well as the building at Tonsley.

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[APP] Re: SAHMRI Stage 2

#18 Post by Waewick » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:46 am

Patrick_27 wrote:I'd be interested to see how much $$ the Federal Government have chipped into medical projects interstate... And before any of you say 'nothing' take a look at Victoria's health system, you don't get something that good without a leg up here and there. Considering our state government forked out the entire sum for the RAH and will no doubt be doing the same for the new Women's and Children's (whenever that happens), I think it's quite fair for there to be the expectation that the feds will chip in for SAHMRI 2. Hell, they've barely chipped in anywhere else... When you look at how many marginal seats there were in SA in the last election and what the Coalition put on the table for local voters, it really wasn't much. Our metropolitan train system is still fucked, our tram network isn't likely to see any major progress before the end of the decade, the remaining chunks of South Road remain unfunded, and as ghs kindly pointed out, our local economy is at a level that could be considered worse than the period following the State Bank collapse.

I think this goes beyond just the Federal funding anyway. Flinders are seemingly up shit-creek and probably were looking for an escape route; they've still got a sizeable debt from the new hub at Bedford Park, as well as the building at Tonsley.
so you've got cash, where do you spend it.

where the people are moving to, or where the people are moving from? Both Labor and liberal on a federal level are pretty happy to continue with option a.

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[APP] Re: SAHMRI Stage 2

#19 Post by SRW » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:15 am

That's a silly proposition, not least because you make it sound as though SA isn't growing at all -- it is. Besides the federal government has as much an obligation to invest here as elsewhere. It's mostly politics that decides the where.

Also, this is really disappointing news. Firstly, because it's clearly a technology we need in this country, and this site - adjacent a state-of-the-art hospital and cancer research centre - is an ideal place to host it. Secondly, I actually do believe in the potential of the biomedical precinct to become a growth industry for Adelaide, and it's a shame to see that hindered.

I wonder where Xenophon is on this?
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[APP] Re: SAHMRI Stage 2

#20 Post by zippySA » Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:39 am

According to the news though - Australia sends x10 patients to USA per year at $200k each - so costs $2M p.a. This doesn't sound like a high demand for investing such significant amounts of $$ to build one in SA. Don't get me wrong - I think SAHMRI 2 has merit, but would like to think our Government explores alternative options for maximum return on investment - surely there are more critical pieces of health infrastructure that could be built into a business case for SAHMRI 2 and still allow us to send patients to proton treatment overseas. I believe Singapore is also looking to build a proton therapy thingy which would greatly reduce the stress for patients travelling from Australia to a fairly local destination.

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[APP] Re: SAHMRI Stage 2

#21 Post by monotonehell » Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:45 pm

zippySA wrote:According to the news though - Australia sends x10 patients to USA per year at $200k each - so costs $2M p.a. This doesn't sound like a high demand for investing such significant amounts of $$ to build one in SA. Don't get me wrong - I think SAHMRI 2 has merit, but would like to think our Government explores alternative options for maximum return on investment - surely there are more critical pieces of health infrastructure that could be built into a business case for SAHMRI 2 and still allow us to send patients to proton treatment overseas. I believe Singapore is also looking to build a proton therapy thingy which would greatly reduce the stress for patients travelling from Australia to a fairly local destination.
But why shouldn't Adelaide be one of those destinations, earning revenue from elsewhere instead of sending it offshore?
Exit on the right in the direction of travel.

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[APP] Re: SAHMRI Stage 2

#22 Post by zippySA » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:01 pm

I do think Adelaide should be one of those destinations - but for a $200M facility where the proton beam (in a massive bunker under it) will cost probably best part of $100M of that sum, with expected "savings" of $2M per year - doesn't seem the best use of limited funds. I'm trying to say that we should develop it, but target something that will assist much more of the population (I don't know what that it - but am sure there are lots of other areas needing specialist research and treatment) - whilst maintaining sending patients overseas - seems to me to be much better use of resources (ie - how many proton beams does the world truly need??)

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[APP] Re: SAHMRI Stage 2

#23 Post by monotonehell » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:32 pm

He who reverses the direction of the proton flow ... something something Doctor Who...
Exit on the right in the direction of travel.

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[APP] Re: SAHMRI Stage 2

#24 Post by Will » Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:58 pm

zippySA wrote:I do think Adelaide should be one of those destinations - but for a $200M facility where the proton beam (in a massive bunker under it) will cost probably best part of $100M of that sum, with expected "savings" of $2M per year - doesn't seem the best use of limited funds. I'm trying to say that we should develop it, but target something that will assist much more of the population (I don't know what that it - but am sure there are lots of other areas needing specialist research and treatment) - whilst maintaining sending patients overseas - seems to me to be much better use of resources (ie - how many proton beams does the world truly need??)
No offence, but you are approaching this discussion with a limited and one dimensional capacity.

There are numerous other benefits, other than the $2 million you cite.

For example:

1) There are more than 10 patients in Australia who would benefit from this proton therapy
2) Cancer is rarely ever a disease process that is battled alone. You haven't factored in the economic injection from all the patients and their support network coming to Adelaide to receive treatment. These people need somewhere to stay, food to eat, things to buy....
3) The economic boost to the construction industry from actually building this facility
4) This facility is expected to house several hundred researchers. These are typically highly skilled and for the most part well renumerated jobs. These are positions that will help stop our best and brightest having to move interstate or overseas, not to mention the possibility of bringing in talented people to the state
5) Having this facility will add impetus to our claim of having the largest biomedical precinct in the Southern Hemisphere. This adds weight to the research undertaken here, making it easier to secure grants and encourage conferences to be held here.
6) Additionally, the impact such a precinct has will undoubtedly help attract companies from the healthcare, biomedical and pharmaceutical realms to SA
7) This facility will add a further boost to this already bourgeoning area, thereby increasing its attractiveness for additional development

The benefits to this state from this facility are far greater than $2 million per year.

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[APP] Re: SAHMRI Stage 2

#25 Post by ghs » Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:11 pm

Patrick_27 wrote:I'd be interested to see how much $$ the Federal Government have chipped into medical projects interstate... And before any of you say 'nothing' take a look at Victoria's health system, you don't get something that good without a leg up here and there. Considering our state government forked out the entire sum for the RAH and will no doubt be doing the same for the new Women's and Children's (whenever that happens), I think it's quite fair for there to be the expectation that the feds will chip in for SAHMRI 2. Hell, they've barely chipped in anywhere else... When you look at how many marginal seats there were in SA in the last election and what the Coalition put on the table for local voters, it really wasn't much. Our metropolitan train system is still fucked, our tram network isn't likely to see any major progress before the end of the decade, the remaining chunks of South Road remain unfunded, and as ghs kindly pointed out, our local economy is at a level that could be considered worse than the period following the State Bank collapse.

I think this goes beyond just the Federal funding anyway. Flinders are seemingly up shit-creek and probably were looking for an escape route; they've still got a sizeable debt from the new hub at Bedford Park, as well as the building at Tonsley.
It's unfair to say 'the feds have barely chipped in anywhere else' as they coughed up a $100 million for the two uni buildings on north terrace.

We need to get some smart people running our state.

Jay Weatherill is not the right man for the job and you could say the same thing about Martin Haese.

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[APP] Re: SAHMRI Stage 2

#26 Post by Norman » Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:06 pm

ghs wrote:It's unfair to say 'the feds have barely chipped in anywhere else' as they coughed up a $100 million for the two uni buildings on north terrace.

We need to get some smart people run

Jay Weatherill is not the right man for the job and you could say the same thing about Martin Haese.
Why are they not the right people? And who are suitable replacements?

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[APP] Re: SAHMRI Stage 2

#27 Post by SRW » Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:03 pm

Will wrote:
zippySA wrote:I do think Adelaide should be one of those destinations - but for a $200M facility where the proton beam (in a massive bunker under it) will cost probably best part of $100M of that sum, with expected "savings" of $2M per year - doesn't seem the best use of limited funds. I'm trying to say that we should develop it, but target something that will assist much more of the population (I don't know what that it - but am sure there are lots of other areas needing specialist research and treatment) - whilst maintaining sending patients overseas - seems to me to be much better use of resources (ie - how many proton beams does the world truly need??)
No offence, but you are approaching this discussion with a limited and one dimensional capacity.

There are numerous other benefits, other than the $2 million you cite.

For example:

1) There are more than 10 patients in Australia who would benefit from this proton therapy
2) Cancer is rarely ever a disease process that is battled alone. You haven't factored in the economic injection from all the patients and their support network coming to Adelaide to receive treatment. These people need somewhere to stay, food to eat, things to buy....
3) The economic boost to the construction industry from actually building this facility
4) This facility is expected to house several hundred researchers. These are typically highly skilled and for the most part well renumerated jobs. These are positions that will help stop our best and brightest having to move interstate or overseas, not to mention the possibility of bringing in talented people to the state
5) Having this facility will add impetus to our claim of having the largest biomedical precinct in the Southern Hemisphere. This adds weight to the research undertaken here, making it easier to secure grants and encourage conferences to be held here.
6) Additionally, the impact such a precinct has will undoubtedly help attract companies from the healthcare, biomedical and pharmaceutical realms to SA
7) This facility will add a further boost to this already bourgeoning area, thereby increasing its attractiveness for additional development

The benefits to this state from this facility are far greater than $2 million per year.
I agree with Will's points, but I'll add:

There are only roughly 10 patients sent abroad per year because we are currently limited in how many we can send by the cost. There are many more who could benefit within Australia and our region. Beyond that, this was primarily to be a research facility in a burgeoning medical research precinct - any consideration of economic impact needs to consider the multiplying effects of agglomeration.

FWIW, IIRC the proton accelerator itself was to cost ~$80 million.
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[APP] Re: SAHMRI Stage 2

#28 Post by Norman » Sat May 06, 2017 7:23 pm

Budget 2017: Australian-first cancer facility flagged for Adelaide, to treat bone cancers, inoperable tumours
By political reporter Matthew Doran and Isabel Dayman

Infants and children with bone cancers and inoperable tumours will be able to access treatment at an Australian-first cancer treatment facility to be operational in Adelaide by 2020.

Tuesday night's federal budget will include a $68-million investment into a proton beam therapy facility at the South Australian Health and Medical Research Institute (SAHMRI).

The institute hopes the technology will be housed in a second yet-to-be-built building, to be known as SAHMRI two.

Federal Health Minister Greg Hunt said SAHMRI was an exceptionally advanced research institute, making it an ideal fit to host the cancer treatment centre.

"[Proton beam therapy] especially applies to patients suffering from cancer in skulls, in the spinal column, in the pelvis, and in particular for treating specific tumours in infants and young children," Mr Hunt said.

"They are very expensive, but this is incredibly important.

"One of the things that I have wanted to do since coming into health is to ensure that Australia has the first proton beam therapy in our history — this will now happen, and I suspect that this is just the first, but over time each of our capital cities will, with the support of the state governments and the universities and the Commonwealth, develop such facilities."

Mr Hunt said there were more than 100 such facilities around the world, but none in Australia.

He has written to the National Health and Medical Research Council to seek advice on further facilities being developed across the country.

"So it's time for Australia to be part of the next great wave of oncology treatment, of cancer treatment," he said.

"This provides hope and opportunity for Australians, particularly young Australians with inoperable cancers."

SAHMRI's Steve Wesselingh said the funding was excellent news for the state's growing health sector.

"We'll be able to start building our proton therapy unit in the context of a second SAHMRI building," he said.

"That building, as I mentioned, will house the proton therapy unit, but will also house other research capacity, particularly other clinical research capacity and public health capacity and will also have additional space available for industry so for small bio-techs or pharma."

The first building was opened in November 2013 and the State Government said it would consider the second building while it prepared next month's budget.

Opens up medical tourism, economic opportunities

Premier Jay Weatherill said securing federal funding for the development of the new facility was a "massive win for South Australia".

"It's been a race to see which would be the first state around the nation to get the proton therapy unit — this will be the only proton therapy unit anywhere in the Southern Hemisphere," Mr Weatherill said.

"What this allows us to do is not only treat Australian patients, but also open ourselves to the world and invite people here to come from the Asia-Pacific region, which opens up medical tourism and wonderful economic opportunities for our state as well as being life-saving surgery.

"We're seeing all the pieces come together.

"We have the new Royal Adelaide Hospital, the University of Adelaide Medical School, the University of South Australia Allied Health School, the existing SAHMRI, and now this gives us a fantastic head-start for a second South Australian Health and Medical Research building."

Mr Weatherill said the State Government would consider its funding contribution as part of this year's state budget.

"There'll have to be a very substantial matching contributions from both the State Government and the partner, the SAHMRI," he said.

"We will now consider this in our state budget [and will] respond to the request for a second SAHMRI building."
Source: http://www.abc.net.au/news/story-stream ... de/8502564

Happy to see this funded, this will really complete the Health and Medical Precinct if the WCH can also move across. Hope to see some good news for that in the next state budget.

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[APP] Re: SAHMRI Stage 2

#29 Post by rev » Sun May 07, 2017 2:01 am

So GHS, zippy, do you guys have $200,000+ to travel overseas to get the specialist treatment that this facility and machine will provide?

No, you don't.
Neither does 99% of the population.

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[APP] Re: SAHMRI Stage 2

#30 Post by Waewick » Sun May 07, 2017 4:08 am

That's great news.

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