[VIS] New inner-city stadium

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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

#61 Post by Nathan » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:42 pm

Nort wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:46 pm
Nathan wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:26 pm
I still don't buy that Hindmarsh can't be upgraded because of the heritage church. I'm not advocating for demolition of heritage listed buildings in general, but we've revoked and knocked down far more important heritage buildings, for far lesser purposes, many times.
Which is why heritage tends to be taken more seriously nowadays.
Is it? Maughan Church was pretty recent for example, and it was much more worthy of keeping.

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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

#62 Post by Brucetiki » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:38 pm

rev wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:02 pm
The venue doesnt really pick tour periods.
They might negotiate on actual an date, but that's within a specific period that a band is touring the country.
They arent going to change the tour or come back later over the a league.
Further to that there's only been 3 concerts at Coopers since AVMC took over the operation of the stadium (last two Foo Fighter tours, and Fleetwood Mac). Also, outdoor concerts are going to be held in summer, when it is soccer season. It's also no different to a number of other outdoor stadia that have concerts around sporting fixtures.

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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

#63 Post by Patrick_27 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:52 pm

Brucetiki wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:38 pm
rev wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:02 pm
The venue doesnt really pick tour periods.
They might negotiate on actual an date, but that's within a specific period that a band is touring the country.
They arent going to change the tour or come back later over the a league.
Further to that there's only been 3 concerts at Coopers since AVMC took over the operation of the stadium (last two Foo Fighter tours, and Fleetwood Mac). Also, outdoor concerts are going to be held in summer, when it is soccer season. It's also no different to a number of other outdoor stadia that have concerts around sporting fixtures.
I feel I should restate my point, I'm not against concerts being held at Hindmarsh, I think it's a kick-arse mid-tier stadium venue for those kinds of shows. My argument is that the AVMC don't give enough of a shit to properly plan for a turnaround between concert to soccer match. For instance, if there is a concert to be held on a Wednesday night and a soccer match to be held on a Friday night, the venue management should have a plan to ensure the state of the pitch is flawless for that Friday night match, after all, it is a soccer stadium. In the case of the second Foo Fighters gig and particularly the Fleetwood Mac gig, they fucked the pitch and quite frankly the handling of the whole thing was piss-poor from AVMCs end. They've got a system that works at AAMI Park in Melbourne, hell, even AO has a good system. AVMC just don't seem to give a shit, and I suspect it's because they know that Adelaide United have no other option, plus they're events organisers not a board of management made up of sporting organisations like SMA. That's my take on it.

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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

#64 Post by Brucetiki » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:34 am

Patrick_27 wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:52 pm
I feel I should restate my point, I'm not against concerts being held at Hindmarsh, I think it's a kick-arse mid-tier stadium venue for those kinds of shows. My argument is that the AVMC don't give enough of a shit to properly plan for a turnaround between concert to soccer match. For instance, if there is a concert to be held on a Wednesday night and a soccer match to be held on a Friday night, the venue management should have a plan to ensure the state of the pitch is flawless for that Friday night match, after all, it is a soccer stadium. In the case of the second Foo Fighters gig and particularly the Fleetwood Mac gig, they fucked the pitch and quite frankly the handling of the whole thing was piss-poor from AVMCs end. They've got a system that works at AAMI Park in Melbourne, hell, even AO has a good system. AVMC just don't seem to give a shit, and I suspect it's because they know that Adelaide United have no other option, plus they're events organisers not a board of management made up of sporting organisations like SMA. That's my take on it.
I guess that's what happens when you get a couple of concerts a year at grounds like Adelaide Oval and AAMI Park, in comparison to one every couple of years at Coopers Stadium.

Also, Adelaide Oval's surface isn't exactly flawless after a concert either.

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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

#65 Post by gnrc_louis » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:38 am

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-11/ ... s/11951632

This article exemplifies why a 30,000 seat or potentially even a 25,000 seat rectangular stadium would probably be too big. imo it should be about 20,000 seat with a safe standing area and scope for expansion should ongoing large crowds require it.

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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

#66 Post by rev » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:21 pm

Brucetiki wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:34 am

I guess that's what happens when you get a couple of concerts a year at grounds like Adelaide Oval and AAMI Park, in comparison to one every couple of years at Coopers Stadium.

Also, Adelaide Oval's surface isn't exactly flawless after a concert either.
Adelaide Oval is also a major venue/facility and has the capacity to replace turf very quickly.

Coopers is a venue for one of the major codes, but that code is run like shit so money for better venues and associated services isnt there.

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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

#67 Post by Waewick » Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:05 pm

I did like the idea of closing down memorial drive to traffic.

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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

#68 Post by A-Town » Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:18 pm

gnrc_louis wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:38 am
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-11/ ... s/11951632

This article exemplifies why a 30,000 seat or potentially even a 25,000 seat rectangular stadium would probably be too big. imo it should be about 20,000 seat with a safe standing area and scope for expansion should ongoing large crowds require it.
A-League crowds are mostly down across the competition with Adelaide United recording their worst home crowd average ever. Is it really Hindmarsh Stadium that's keeping crowds down, or is it the declining popularity of the A-League? I'm sure a shiny new 20-30k seat stadium will see an initial spike while the novelty factor's still there, but once the shine wears off, I can see crowds going back to similar numbers as they are today. Even AFL crowds are starting to decline, although a lot of that can be contributed to the poor form of both teams.

I'm not against a new rectangular stadium altogether, I just think the Govt should prioritise a new 15k multi-purpose arena hosting basketball, tennis, netball, and concerts as I think this is the more viable option.

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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

#69 Post by gnrc_louis » Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:28 pm

Personally I think it's the declining popularity of the Aleague and the multitude of questionable decisions made by the FFA over recent years. As you say, I don't think a city stadium would help that much without major changes to the league itself happening. So I agree that a 15k multipurpose arena should definitely be the priority.

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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

#70 Post by NTRabbit » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:27 pm

Patrick_27 wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:57 pm
SRW wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:16 pm
I'm not buying into this debate yet because it's a rehash of previous arguments. But a couple people have said the the Adelaide Entertainment Centre is privately owned. It's not. It's run by a public corporation -- the Adelaide Venue Management Corporation, which also runs the Convention Centre and Hindmarsh.
Thank you, glad someone pointed this out. And to address the comments from NTrabit hating on SMA, whilst I don't agree with their AO Hotel project or the food and beverage pricing, it's unfair to paint them as demons when AVMC are just as bad (if not worse). Their management of Hindmarsh has been appalling, to say the least.
Better to have two appallingly corrupt organisations competing against each other, than let all the sports in the state be kept under the stranglehold of just one

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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

#71 Post by rev » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:55 am

A-Town wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:18 pm
gnrc_louis wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:38 am
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-11/ ... s/11951632

This article exemplifies why a 30,000 seat or potentially even a 25,000 seat rectangular stadium would probably be too big. imo it should be about 20,000 seat with a safe standing area and scope for expansion should ongoing large crowds require it.
A-League crowds are mostly down across the competition with Adelaide United recording their worst home crowd average ever. Is it really Hindmarsh Stadium that's keeping crowds down, or is it the declining popularity of the A-League? I'm sure a shiny new 20-30k seat stadium will see an initial spike while the novelty factor's still there, but once the shine wears off, I can see crowds going back to similar numbers as they are today. Even AFL crowds are starting to decline, although a lot of that can be contributed to the poor form of both teams.

I'm not against a new rectangular stadium altogether, I just think the Govt should prioritise a new 15k multi-purpose arena hosting basketball, tennis, netball, and concerts as I think this is the more viable option.
You're right, crowds are down, because the FFA runs the A League like shit. Chinese money bought Adelaide United, they own a crappy 4th div club in China. Why would the FFA approve such crap? There's your problem with Adelaide United, and the stupidity of the FFA rolled into one example.

Here's two scenarios.

1. They build a small rectangular stadium on the edge of the city near Adelaide Oval, to cater for smaller crowds.
FFA finally gets their shit together running the league, and crowds start pouring in. Will the stadium be upgradable and look like a coherent design still?

2. They build a bigger rectangular stadium, say capacity between 25,000-35,000. Draws bigger crowds for a short while before the novelty wears off.
FFA gets their shit together and bigger crowds are maintained, or FFA takes longer to get their shit together and crowds drop off but at least there's a stadium with large enough capacity.

People are thinking inside the box on this, just about Adelaide United and the A League.
What about rugby? What of the International Rugby Sevens, if we were to get that back? How about as a smaller outdoor concert venue?
How about if Adelaide United make a grand final or cup final, capacity is needed. They're not going to host a grand or cup final in a 15k venue.
What about the next time Australia bids for the World Cup, Australia will host a World Cup it's inevitable I guarantee it. Does Adelaide want to be part of the biggest single sporting showcase on the planet, or do we want to miss out? How do you upgrade a 15k stadium to meet FIFA requirements without making it look like either a construction site because of all the scaffolding, or end up demolishing it and rebuilding it anyway?

They need to build something that meets all FIFA requirements from day one, with the exception of capacity, but so that capacity can be increased without being detrimental to the design of the venue.

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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

#72 Post by ml69 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:45 am

rev wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:55 am
People are thinking inside the box on this, just about Adelaide United and the A League.
What about rugby? What of the International Rugby Sevens, if we were to get that back? How about as a smaller outdoor concert venue?
How about if Adelaide United make a grand final or cup final, capacity is needed. They're not going to host a grand or cup final in a 15k venue.
What about the next time Australia bids for the World Cup, Australia will host a World Cup it's inevitable I guarantee it. Does Adelaide want to be part of the biggest single sporting showcase on the planet, or do we want to miss out? How do you upgrade a 15k stadium to meet FIFA requirements without making it look like either a construction site because of all the scaffolding, or end up demolishing it and rebuilding it anyway?

They need to build something that meets all FIFA requirements from day one, with the exception of capacity, but so that capacity can be increased without being detrimental to the design of the venue.
In my opinion the best solution is a high-quality 20k seat stadium (all seats undercover) located on the current University Oval, thereby making full use of public transport. The design should meet FIFA requirements except capacity as Rev has stated above.

20k is more than sufficient for rugby league and International Rugby Sevens.

A-League Grand Finals and blockbuster soccer matches against (for example) an EPL team can be played at Adelaide Oval. These are one-off matches.

As for a potential World Cup, temporarily expand the north and south stands in a similar way to what Sydney did for the Olympic Stadium.

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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

#73 Post by madelaide » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:57 pm

rev wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:55 am

You're right, crowds are down, because the FFA runs the A League like shit. Chinese money bought Adelaide United, they own a crappy 4th div club in China. Why would the FFA approve such crap? There's your problem with Adelaide United, and the stupidity of the FFA rolled into one example.

Here's two scenarios.

1. They build a small rectangular stadium on the edge of the city near Adelaide Oval, to cater for smaller crowds.
FFA finally gets their shit together running the league, and crowds start pouring in. Will the stadium be upgradable and look like a coherent design still?

2. They build a bigger rectangular stadium, say capacity between 25,000-35,000. Draws bigger crowds for a short while before the novelty wears off.
FFA gets their shit together and bigger crowds are maintained, or FFA takes longer to get their shit together and crowds drop off but at least there's a stadium with large enough capacity.

People are thinking inside the box on this, just about Adelaide United and the A League.
What about rugby? What of the International Rugby Sevens, if we were to get that back? How about as a smaller outdoor concert venue?
How about if Adelaide United make a grand final or cup final, capacity is needed. They're not going to host a grand or cup final in a 15k venue.
What about the next time Australia bids for the World Cup, Australia will host a World Cup it's inevitable I guarantee it. Does Adelaide want to be part of the biggest single sporting showcase on the planet, or do we want to miss out? How do you upgrade a 15k stadium to meet FIFA requirements without making it look like either a construction site because of all the scaffolding, or end up demolishing it and rebuilding it anyway?

They need to build something that meets all FIFA requirements from day one, with the exception of capacity, but so that capacity can be increased without being detrimental to the design of the venue.

I think you might have your wires crossed on the Adelaide United info. The Club was sold in 2018 to a group of predominantly European business people with other interests in Europe and Asia. Adelaide United chairman Piet van der Pol, an experienced Dutch football administrator, has stated that the investors are ‘partners’ rather than decision makers.

Regarding the Chinese connection, Piet van der Pol is also the owner of Qingdao Red Lions. In a risky, but smart move, instead of getting China to invest in his clubs, he invested in one of theirs. The team has moved up two divisions since his involvement.

On the stadium topic, minimum capacity for a World Cup Football stadium is 40,000. The last stadium to host a game before requirements were revised was Kaliningrad Stadium (35,212 seating) in 2018. After the tournament, its capacity was reduced to 25,000 and is now home of second tier side FC Baltika Kaliningrad.

Despite my love for Hindmarsh Stadium and AUFC's history there, I feel if there was to be a new stadium in the city, 25,000 capacity would be ideal for the long term. I would encourage form fitted - 3 radii design, with rounded corners, providing good spectator distance to the pitch and better quality views from the corners. Retractable end seating to reduce to 20,000 for rugby league / union.

Adelaide Oval may never meet FIFA standards unless some big coin changes hands. Thinking outside the square for World Cup though... a rogue move might be to carefully remove AO's top soil and drop the oval surface down 10metres, then add 28,000 seats around the perimeter of the pit, lay a rectangular pitch in the middle and host the cup final.

.

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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

#74 Post by rev » Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:47 pm

Yeh..

https://www.fiveaa.com.au/sport/United- ... g-The-Club

And there's so much more out there on it..most fans are aware.
You do realise the Dutch guy is just the frontman, the public face of this "group of investors"..?

There's a crappy player from that same crappy 4th div Chinese club on AU's roster. Ever wondered why? They want to improve their domestic league, so want to send players abroad to improve.
“We can send a 28-year-old who will not improve a lot, but we think this player (Chen) has the quality and the potential to improve a lot.

Chen, who captained the Red Lions’ second side and can play on both wings, will be joined by several countrymen training with Adelaide this summer.
Dont kid your selves that the new owners with Chinese money & interests, want to make United a powerhouse in the HAL. For them the focus is on China, as they say its going to become the biggest league money wise. This 4th div side needs to improve hard, so thats where Adelaide United comes into for them.

You would have seen significant investment in the club by now.
One of the old owners even had a small model of a proposal for a new stadium.

Don't take offence, this isnt a dig at China or Chinese.
I was in earlier posts just pointing out part of the problem is the club it self and its owners, as well as the FFA/league in general regarding low/declining crowds.

You fix the league and clubs, and crowds will grow.

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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

#75 Post by gnrc_louis » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:15 pm

rev wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:47 pm

You fix the league and clubs, and crowds will grow.
I question whether the FFA are capable of doing this. WSW are a good example, they have an extremely dedicated fanbase and were getting good crowds. The FFA in their obsession with trying to make the game as "gentrified" as possible, continually went after their most passionate supporters, and now their crowd numbers are below what they were at their peak - even with a brand new stadium. Furthermore, their decision to add Western United to the league is not looking great currently - I think the Team 11 bid or even Wollongong would've been a smarter choice.

Ultimately, as much as I love soccer, building a 30,000 seat rectangular city stadium that is likely half empty for most United games for the foreseeable future is hardly going to help what is already imo an unfairly maligned sport within much of the mainstream media. Also it seems unlikely that an NRL team would again be created for the State and even if it was, be capable of filling a 30,000 seat rectangular stadium. On the other hand the NBL seems to be going from strength to strength and drawing in good foreign players and crowds, netball is relatively strong and tennis is making ongoing inroads into Asia - which bodes well for the future. To me, an indoor arena makes much more sense at present.

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