News & Developments: Bowden TOD

All high-rise, low-rise and street developments in areas other than the CBD and North Adelaide. Includes Port Adelaide and Glenelg.
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SBD
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Re: News & Developments: Bowden TOD

#436 Post by SBD » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:11 pm

claybro wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:09 am
SBD wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:08 pm
rev wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:13 am
Spend millions to put a train line under a roadway to reduce congestion, but then go and put up a signalized pedestrian crossing on the same road. Gotta be Adelaide.
I'm not sure why Adelaide any more than anywhere else...?

As someone else suggested, it might be able to synchronise with the preceding intersection in each direction so that in fact through traffic shouldn't be delayed any more. It looks like the path across the median strip and fences to force pedestrians to use it were installed in the first half of 2016 (Google Streetview). Presumably people are already finding gaps in the traffic, so hopefully the lights sync to the same gaps and actually make no difference at all to the moving traffic.
Why Adelaide more so than anywhere else? Because there would have to be more pedestrian operated crossings in Adelaide than anywhere else on the planet. (just my observation). As for synchronising the pedestrian intersection with the adjacent intersection...given synchronisation is not a strong point elsewhere in Adelaide, I would suggest you are dreaming. Like everyone else has said, seems strange to spend millions to remove a level crossing, only the add a set of lights. Build the damn pedestrian overpass if it is such an issue.
I agree that an overpass would be a better outcome. Synchronising lights does happen in other areas. There are some sections that if I drive through one amber light, then the next one will also be amber, and conversely, if I am front car when the light goes green, I will see the next light go green as I approach. That kind of synchronisation is much harder for traffic where intersections have traffic both ways. Assuming the pedestrian crossing has separate walk phases each side, then each one only needs to be synched with the preceding (or following) set of lights in that direction. The difficulty in getting it "right" would be in deciding which phase of the preceding lights to synch with (straight through or left/right turn onto Park Terrace).

If these lights do add significantly to delays (journey time including the intersections both ends), then there will be objective evidence that an overpass would add significant value.

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Nathan
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Re: News & Developments: Bowden TOD

#437 Post by Nathan » Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:41 pm

I'm 99% sure it'll be seperate phases for each side, given the split alignment. And if it's anything like any of the pedestrian crossings on Port Rd, they're timed to change only with the seasons.

(The old signalised crossing along the train line pretty much would never change on request during peak traffic times — only ever going green when the boom gates were down.)

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Norman
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Re: News & Developments: Bowden TOD

#438 Post by Norman » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:45 am

EBG wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:49 am
I agree with REV and SBD. It is illogical to spend millions to remove to railway crossing to speed up the traffic flow then put a pedestrian crossing on the same section of road. Also why is the new pedestrian crossing over the railway on War Memorial Drive permanently fence off? It was safe to 5 tracks before but now it is unsafe to cross 3 tracks???
I believe they are installing an activated crossing there. No idea why it's taking so long though.

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Re: News & Developments: Bowden TOD

#439 Post by Nathan » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:52 pm

The activated crossings were installed almost a year ago, but still not in action (one right near the junction and one at North Adelaide station). I thought I saw something about a November timeframe, but that’s obviously come and gone.

Elsewhere, I walked around the ground of Park Central this morning and it looks like the three ground tenancies have been set up for offices rather than retail/hospitality. Basic office kitchen style bench and sink at the back of each, and that generic commercial carpet. Office workers will be good for the area, but ground level is not the best place for it. Should be retail ground with offices above. Hmmm.

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Re: News & Developments: Bowden TOD

#440 Post by claybro » Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:06 pm

Norman wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:45 am
EBG wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:49 am
I agree with REV and SBD. It is illogical to spend millions to remove to railway crossing to speed up the traffic flow then put a pedestrian crossing on the same section of road. Also why is the new pedestrian crossing over the railway on War Memorial Drive permanently fence off? It was safe to 5 tracks before but now it is unsafe to cross 3 tracks???
I believe they are installing an activated crossing there. No idea why it's taking so long though.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the original concept for the Bowden was for an overpass to connect the developement to the parklands. Now dumbed down to a pedestrian crossing. Same with Bowden station. Original concept called for a coveted underground station, now they have a station in a trench. Surely this project, being a poster child for TOD's requires it to be true to concept with no cheap corner cutting if we are to ever get people to embrace urban living in SA. I fear this is becoming just another Mawson Lakes which will not exactly inspire people to embrace higher density.

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Re: News & Developments: Bowden TOD

#441 Post by Nathan » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:30 pm

claybro wrote:
Norman wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:45 am
EBG wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:49 am
I agree with REV and SBD. It is illogical to spend millions to remove to railway crossing to speed up the traffic flow then put a pedestrian crossing on the same section of road. Also why is the new pedestrian crossing over the railway on War Memorial Drive permanently fence off? It was safe to 5 tracks before but now it is unsafe to cross 3 tracks???
I believe they are installing an activated crossing there. No idea why it's taking so long though.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the original concept for the Bowden was for an overpass to connect the developement to the parklands. Now dumbed down to a pedestrian crossing. Same with Bowden station. Original concept called for a coveted underground station, now they have a station in a trench. Surely this project, being a poster child for TOD's requires it to be true to concept with no cheap corner cutting if we are to ever get people to embrace urban living in SA. I fear this is becoming just another Mawson Lakes which will not exactly inspire people to embrace higher density.
Yes. That was the battle between RenewalSA and DPTI. RenewalSA (at least the Bowden team) fought hard for the overpass and underground station as originally proposed. They were left largely in the dark and ultimately it was down to DPTI trying to minimize any expense that wasn’t covered by the federal payment for Torrens Junction. I raised this concern many times with the now defunct Bowden Reference Group. This same battle is continuing with how the bike/pedestrian path interacts with the gas works site.

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Re: News & Developments: Bowden TOD

#442 Post by ChillyPhilly » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:39 am

The new Bowden station is built in such a way that it can be covered in the future if necessary.
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