U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
Message
Author
A-Town
Sen-Rookie-Sational
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:14 am

Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#2776 Post by A-Town » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:13 pm

Mr Messy wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:19 pm
rubberman wrote:I have no specific opinion myself, but once the Gawler electrification is done, wouldn't it be better to electrify the Hills line?

Would not electric traction produce a bigger improvement on the grades there? The Port line is flat, and the diesels would find that less of a challenge.

or is there some other consideration?

Also, there's a lot of development up North. If we don't plan some heavy rail there now, we never will.
The Sleeps Hill tunnel makes its very difficult to electrify the line. My understanding is it would require major works to install the lines due to its construction

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Yep, for this reason electrifying the Belair line is a long way off.

User avatar
Llessur2002
Legendary Member!
Posts: 817
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:59 pm
Location: West Croydon
Has thanked: 242 times
Been thanked: 322 times

Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#2777 Post by Llessur2002 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:30 pm

The obligatory 'before' shot of the National Rail Museum yard area which will become the new Port Adelaide railway station.

Hopefully this view should start to change soon...Image
Last edited by Llessur2002 on Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

rubberman
Legendary Member!
Posts: 755
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:32 pm
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 52 times

Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#2778 Post by rubberman » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:32 pm

A-Town wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:13 pm
Mr Messy wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:19 pm
rubberman wrote:I have no specific opinion myself, but once the Gawler electrification is done, wouldn't it be better to electrify the Hills line?

Would not electric traction produce a bigger improvement on the grades there? The Port line is flat, and the diesels would find that less of a challenge.

or is there some other consideration?

Also, there's a lot of development up North. If we don't plan some heavy rail there now, we never will.
The Sleeps Hill tunnel makes its very difficult to electrify the line. My understanding is it would require major works to install the lines due to its construction

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Yep, for this reason electrifying the Belair line is a long way off.
Not disagreeing or anything, but would it be any more difficult than the Torrens junction project?

Mr Messy
Sen-Rookie-Sational
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:55 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#2779 Post by Mr Messy » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:35 pm

rubberman wrote:
A-Town wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:13 pm
Mr Messy wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:19 pm
The Sleeps Hill tunnel makes its very difficult to electrify the line. My understanding is it would require major works to install the lines due to its construction

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Yep, for this reason electrifying the Belair line is a long way off.
Not disagreeing or anything, but would it be any more difficult than the Torrens junction project?
Yes, because they would have to somehow resize the existing tunnel or dig a new one through sandy soil

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


EBG
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1003
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:49 pm
Has thanked: 262 times
Been thanked: 487 times

Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#2780 Post by EBG » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:55 pm

Electrifying Sleeps Hill tunnel is not that great a problem, you do not need complicated catenary, one simply fixes a conducting rod directly to the roof of the tunnel and the pantagraphs automatically adjust the any change in heights.

muzzamo
Legendary Member!
Posts: 904
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:44 pm
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#2781 Post by muzzamo » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:58 am

EBG wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:55 pm
Electrifying Sleeps Hill tunnel is not that great a problem, you do not need complicated catenary, one simply fixes a conducting rod directly to the roof of the tunnel and the pantagraphs automatically adjust the any change in heights.
An inanimate carbon rod!
kAVnAFe.png
kAVnAFe.png (307.9 KiB) Viewed 553 times

Patrick_27
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:41 pm
Location: Adelaide CBD, SA
Been thanked: 92 times

Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#2782 Post by Patrick_27 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:15 am

OR just make the tunnel deeper by digging out the ground below the tracks and lowering them. It could be done, I think the problem is more the fact that electrifying the Belair line would present issues with timing of such a long single line system, I'd presume they'd need to move freight north before any such consideration was made to electrify, in which case I'd also hope they'd consider extending it back out as far as Bridgwater if not Mt. Barker or Murray Bridge...

Eurostar
High Rise Poster!
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:44 pm
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#2783 Post by Eurostar » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:03 pm

I recommend Aldinga needs a train service asap because the population could support it, also maybe even a branch line servicing Seaford Vista and McLaren Vale

EBG
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1003
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:49 pm
Has thanked: 262 times
Been thanked: 487 times

Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#2784 Post by EBG » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:45 pm

When electrification was first announced in 2008 all the metropolitan lines were to be converted to standard gauge by 2013 and all new work since then has used dual gauge sleepers. if this is done we would not have 2 single lines between Adelaide and Belair then trains could return to Bridgewater and extend to Mount Barker. It is all a question of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

User avatar
Kasey771
High Rise Poster!
Posts: 394
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:56 am
Has thanked: 86 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#2785 Post by Kasey771 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:30 am

EBG wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:45 pm
When electrification was first announced in 2008 all the metropolitan lines were to be converted to standard gauge by 2013 and all new work since then has used dual gauge sleepers. if this is done we would not have 2 single lines between Adelaide and Belair then trains could return to Bridgewater and extend to Mount Barker. It is all a question of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
With the recent growth in population of Mt Barker, perhaps the focus of any case for extending the Belair line once again to Mt.Barker should focus on all of the cars such a move would take off the SE Freeway during morning peak..ie make it a safety case rather than a purely $$ case??
Big infrastructure investments are usually under-valued and & over-criticized while in the planning stage. It's much easier to envision the here and now costs and inconveniences, and far more difficult to imagine fully the eventual benefits.

User avatar
Norman
Donating Member
Donating Member
Posts: 4507
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:06 pm
Has thanked: 462 times
Been thanked: 566 times

Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#2786 Post by Norman » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:08 am

Currently the bus takes an hour in peak hour to get from Mount Barker to the city. The train would take at least 75 minutes on the current track, but probably closer to 90 minutes. At the moment it's not viable.

This idea come up every few months, is been done to death.
Last edited by Norman on Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Torrens_5022
High Rise Poster!
Posts: 192
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:34 am
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#2787 Post by Torrens_5022 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:09 am

Mount Barker is 33km from Adelaide via road, 53min on a T840, the train station is 55km to ARS, Belair is 21.5km and takes a minimum of 37mins, assuming both lines are in use and you run express and you get it down to to 32min, it will still take 80min to Mt Barker, the track is very windy and hilly and the train is going to average 40 to 50km/h. It's just not worth it the cost is insane and it takes 50% longer in travel time then an express bus, why not just run an express bus every 20min and an all stops every 20min, giving a bus every 10min during interpeak?

User avatar
Norman
Donating Member
Donating Member
Posts: 4507
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:06 pm
Has thanked: 462 times
Been thanked: 566 times

Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#2788 Post by Norman » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:14 am

Torrens_5022 wrote:Mount Barker is 33km from Adelaide via road, 53min on a T840, the train station is 55km to ARS, Belair is 21.5km and takes a minimum of 37mins, assuming both lines are in use and you run express and you get it down to to 32min, it will still take 80min to Mt Barker, the track is very windy and hilly and the train is going to average 40 to 50km/h. It's just not worth it the cost is insane and it takes 50% longer in travel time then an express bus, why not just run an express bus every 20min and an all stops every 20min, giving a bus every 10min during interpeak?
A bus every 10 minutes from Mount Barker would definitely be overkill. At most, an express bus every 30 minutes and the local Hills bus also every 30 minutes. The frequency on Sundays should definitely be doubled though (up from hourly).

Torrens_5022
High Rise Poster!
Posts: 192
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:34 am
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#2789 Post by Torrens_5022 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:26 pm

Yeah 10min currently is probably overkill, but compared to a train service it's pretty timid. It's more like a 864F every 20mins and a T840 every 20min, The service will be used. You could add a third route that goes a different way like a Nairne via Mt barker so you have three services each every 30 mins

User avatar
rhino
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 2659
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:37 pm
Location: Nairne
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#2790 Post by rhino » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:54 pm

Torrens_5022 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:26 pm
You could add a third route that goes a different way like a Nairne via Mt barker so you have three services each every 30 mins
That route would be the T842 which already exists :)
cheers,
Rhino

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest