U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

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Goodsy
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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3046 Post by Goodsy » Tue May 08, 2018 8:54 pm

SBD wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 8:45 pm
I am not familiar with train operations, but I imagine that unless we get the trains running within a few seconds of the planned timetable, there would be issues with making short passing loops at stations. Major stations are the ones that need both the express and all-stops trains, but it's not really practical to have the all-stops train in the station for a long time, waiting for an express train to arrive, disgorge and collect passengers, then leave first, if there are passengers deliberately on the all-stops train because they want to travel between two intermediate stations.

I don't know if it's MATS left-overs, but there seems to be a reasonable amount of space on the west side of the railway all the way from the Little Para River (former Penfield junction) to past Broadmeadows and maybe even to Smithfield (at the cost of some of the single-level car parking area). Even the road bridge at Elizabeth looks like there is space to put four tracks instead of just three (it already has a storage track under the bridge).

Elizabeth is a significant school and interchange station, Elizabeth South is still an employment stop, not just commuters to/from Adelaide. I'm not sure about Nurlutta or Broadmeadows.
If they build the freight bypass portion of the Northern Connector then there will be a spare rail from Dry Creek to Elizabeth, or if the Liberals freight bypass thing goes ahead there will be a spare one for the entire length

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3047 Post by SBD » Tue May 08, 2018 10:28 pm

Goodsy wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 8:54 pm
SBD wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 8:45 pm
I am not familiar with train operations, but I imagine that unless we get the trains running within a few seconds of the planned timetable, there would be issues with making short passing loops at stations. Major stations are the ones that need both the express and all-stops trains, but it's not really practical to have the all-stops train in the station for a long time, waiting for an express train to arrive, disgorge and collect passengers, then leave first, if there are passengers deliberately on the all-stops train because they want to travel between two intermediate stations.

I don't know if it's MATS left-overs, but there seems to be a reasonable amount of space on the west side of the railway all the way from the Little Para River (former Penfield junction) to past Broadmeadows and maybe even to Smithfield (at the cost of some of the single-level car parking area). Even the road bridge at Elizabeth looks like there is space to put four tracks instead of just three (it already has a storage track under the bridge).

Elizabeth is a significant school and interchange station, Elizabeth South is still an employment stop, not just commuters to/from Adelaide. I'm not sure about Nurlutta or Broadmeadows.
If they build the freight bypass portion of the Northern Connector then there will be a spare rail from Dry Creek to Elizabeth, or if the Liberals freight bypass thing goes ahead there will be a spare one for the entire length
I suspect that a significant extra cost of installing separate express and local tracks would be a need to grade separate a number of additional level crossings. Park Terrace in Salisbury is a given, but Kings Road and Commercial Road might also be needed with potentially twice as many trains at the times when the roads are busiest too. I'd add Womma Road and Curtis Road if the duplication went that far north (and close Anderson Walk per the plans of twenty years ago). There are five more level crossings in the inner suburbs that should be on the plans to bridge or close where they cross both the Gawler and standard gauge lines.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3048 Post by Norman » Tue May 08, 2018 11:34 pm

Goodsy wrote:
SBD wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 8:45 pm
I am not familiar with train operations, but I imagine that unless we get the trains running within a few seconds of the planned timetable, there would be issues with making short passing loops at stations. Major stations are the ones that need both the express and all-stops trains, but it's not really practical to have the all-stops train in the station for a long time, waiting for an express train to arrive, disgorge and collect passengers, then leave first, if there are passengers deliberately on the all-stops train because they want to travel between two intermediate stations.

I don't know if it's MATS left-overs, but there seems to be a reasonable amount of space on the west side of the railway all the way from the Little Para River (former Penfield junction) to past Broadmeadows and maybe even to Smithfield (at the cost of some of the single-level car parking area). Even the road bridge at Elizabeth looks like there is space to put four tracks instead of just three (it already has a storage track under the bridge).

Elizabeth is a significant school and interchange station, Elizabeth South is still an employment stop, not just commuters to/from Adelaide. I'm not sure about Nurlutta or Broadmeadows.
If they build the freight bypass portion of the Northern Connector then there will be a spare rail from Dry Creek to Elizabeth, or if the Liberals freight bypass thing goes ahead there will be a spare one for the entire length
Dry Creek to Salisbury, actually.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3049 Post by Joelmark » Wed May 09, 2018 7:57 am

Can anyone actually confirm that we are going to receive the $220 milllion from the Feds for the completion of the Gawler line electrification, as in is it in the forward estimates, or is it just a future unaccounted for promise?

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3050 Post by Goodsy » Wed May 09, 2018 9:33 am

Norman wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 11:34 pm
Dry Creek to Salisbury, actually.
Oh yeah.. whoops.

in any case, the Northern Connector rail portion would give us a new spur almost all the way to Virginia.. Although it would be standard gauge

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3051 Post by SBD » Wed May 09, 2018 1:03 pm

Goodsy wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 9:33 am
Norman wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 11:34 pm
Dry Creek to Salisbury, actually.
Oh yeah.. whoops.

in any case, the Northern Connector rail portion would give us a new spur almost all the way to Virginia.. Although it would be standard gauge
Would the existing standard gauge route be closed, or simply receive a lot less traffic?

Even if it were to be mostly closed, there would remain a spur from the new route to the intermodal facilities at Penfield for SCT and Treasury Wines/Trebuchet Logistics.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3052 Post by aaronjameslange » Wed May 16, 2018 8:44 pm

Would the Gawler line need to be closed for the electrification? All the rails and ballast etc were replaced a couple of years ago which means theoretically diesel trains could run under the new wires until the power gets turned on. Poles and gantries could be done interpeak, or nights / weekends. Hopefully not looking at months of bus substitutes. Would the entire dry creek depot be done at the same time. I would think that it would

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3053 Post by Norman » Wed May 16, 2018 9:11 pm

aaronjameslange wrote:Would the Gawler line need to be closed for the electrification? All the rails and ballast etc were replaced a couple of years ago which means theoretically diesel trains could run under the new wires until the power gets turned on. Poles and gantries could be done interpeak, or nights / weekends. Hopefully not looking at months of bus substitutes. Would the entire dry creek depot be done at the same time. I would think that it would
Given the experience of the Seaford Line, they will probably stop the trains running after 9pm and work on the electrification between 9pm and 6am.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3054 Post by ChillyPhilly » Thu May 17, 2018 8:06 am

Finally got a close up for anyone interested.

To get the old paint off, they basically melt it.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3055 Post by Eurostar » Fri May 18, 2018 10:51 am

Whilst the Gawler Line Electrification is happening they should close some stations, it will speed up train services and reduce station maintenance costs.

Stations that should be closed
Dudley Park
Kilburn
Greenfields
Parafield Gardens
Chidda
Broadmeadows

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3056 Post by Norman » Fri May 18, 2018 11:11 am

Eurostar wrote:Whilst the Gawler Line Electrification is happening they should close some stations, it will speed up train services and reduce station maintenance costs.

Stations that should be closed
Dudley Park
Kilburn
Greenfields
Parafield Gardens
Chidda
Broadmeadows
What do you base that list on?

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3057 Post by claybro » Fri May 18, 2018 11:34 am

Eurostar wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 10:51 am
Whilst the Gawler Line Electrification is happening they should close some stations, it will speed up train services and reduce station maintenance costs.

Stations that should be closed
Dudley Park
Kilburn
Greenfields
Parafield Gardens
Chidda
Broadmeadows
Agree that stations that do not directly service a high traffic retail or services areas, or are not suitable for accommodating a bus interchange so that local buses can feed into them should be closed. These small little suburban whistle stops, might be convenient to the couple of hundred people in the immediate few blocks, but as you say, they add huge cost and time constraints on the system as a whole. Not particularly familiar with the Gawler Line, but if these stations are in low density areas, they should be closed.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3058 Post by OlympusAnt » Fri May 18, 2018 11:56 am

You can't close stations, because the 10 people a day that use them will complain in Messenger that they're losing a service.
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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3059 Post by [Shuz] » Fri May 18, 2018 12:22 pm

Boohoo. Tough luck.
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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3060 Post by Pistol » Fri May 18, 2018 12:28 pm

Dudley Park is an interesting station.
Yes it is in the middle of backstreet suburbia.
But just remember that this whole area (Churchill Road) has been rezoned as ‘Urban Corridor’ and it’s main selling point is that it’s close to public transport.
You take this station away and it defeats the purpose of the rezoning.
I agree that stations need to be assessed on their value to the network, but let’s let the professionals come up with the list eh?
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