News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

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Norman
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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3421 Post by Norman » Wed May 16, 2018 9:11 pm

aaronjameslange wrote:Would the Gawler line need to be closed for the electrification? All the rails and ballast etc were replaced a couple of years ago which means theoretically diesel trains could run under the new wires until the power gets turned on. Poles and gantries could be done interpeak, or nights / weekends. Hopefully not looking at months of bus substitutes. Would the entire dry creek depot be done at the same time. I would think that it would
Given the experience of the Seaford Line, they will probably stop the trains running after 9pm and work on the electrification between 9pm and 6am.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3422 Post by ChillyPhilly » Thu May 17, 2018 8:06 am

Finally got a close up for anyone interested.

To get the old paint off, they basically melt it.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3423 Post by Eurostar » Fri May 18, 2018 10:51 am

Whilst the Gawler Line Electrification is happening they should close some stations, it will speed up train services and reduce station maintenance costs.

Stations that should be closed
Dudley Park
Kilburn
Greenfields
Parafield Gardens
Chidda
Broadmeadows

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3424 Post by Norman » Fri May 18, 2018 11:11 am

Eurostar wrote:Whilst the Gawler Line Electrification is happening they should close some stations, it will speed up train services and reduce station maintenance costs.

Stations that should be closed
Dudley Park
Kilburn
Greenfields
Parafield Gardens
Chidda
Broadmeadows
What do you base that list on?

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3425 Post by claybro » Fri May 18, 2018 11:34 am

Eurostar wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 10:51 am
Whilst the Gawler Line Electrification is happening they should close some stations, it will speed up train services and reduce station maintenance costs.

Stations that should be closed
Dudley Park
Kilburn
Greenfields
Parafield Gardens
Chidda
Broadmeadows
Agree that stations that do not directly service a high traffic retail or services areas, or are not suitable for accommodating a bus interchange so that local buses can feed into them should be closed. These small little suburban whistle stops, might be convenient to the couple of hundred people in the immediate few blocks, but as you say, they add huge cost and time constraints on the system as a whole. Not particularly familiar with the Gawler Line, but if these stations are in low density areas, they should be closed.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3426 Post by OlympusAnt » Fri May 18, 2018 11:56 am

You can't close stations, because the 10 people a day that use them will complain in Messenger that they're losing a service.
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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3427 Post by [Shuz] » Fri May 18, 2018 12:22 pm

Boohoo. Tough luck.
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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3428 Post by Pistol » Fri May 18, 2018 12:28 pm

Dudley Park is an interesting station.
Yes it is in the middle of backstreet suburbia.
But just remember that this whole area (Churchill Road) has been rezoned as ‘Urban Corridor’ and it’s main selling point is that it’s close to public transport.
You take this station away and it defeats the purpose of the rezoning.
I agree that stations need to be assessed on their value to the network, but let’s let the professionals come up with the list eh?
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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3429 Post by claybro » Fri May 18, 2018 2:22 pm

Pistol wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 12:28 pm
I agree that stations need to be assessed on their value to the network, but let’s let the professionals come up with the list eh?
But therein lies the problem Pistol. There does not appear to be any competent urban/transport planners operating in SA. So I'm not sure what professionals you are referring to? Urban development seems to happen only by developers plans which is only about crappy developments to maximise profits. Council, greedy for money approve these without any transport requirements, or just tack on to whatever crappy old train station happens to be there, with very poor integration. Public transport development seems to only happen by election pork barrelling. The two do not seem to coincide, and yet each component is critical to the success of both the urban developments, and the transport spend.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3430 Post by dbl96 » Fri May 18, 2018 2:50 pm

claybro wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 11:34 am
Eurostar wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 10:51 am
Whilst the Gawler Line Electrification is happening they should close some stations, it will speed up train services and reduce station maintenance costs.

Stations that should be closed
Dudley Park
Kilburn
Greenfields
Parafield Gardens
Chidda
Broadmeadows
Agree that stations that do not directly service a high traffic retail or services areas, or are not suitable for accommodating a bus interchange so that local buses can feed into them should be closed. These small little suburban whistle stops, might be convenient to the couple of hundred people in the immediate few blocks, but as you say, they add huge cost and time constraints on the system as a whole. Not particularly familiar with the Gawler Line, but if these stations are in low density areas, they should be closed.
Stations should ideally be roughly evenly spaced. This permits more convenient access to the system, and provides opportunities for future development. The areas around stations which do not directly serve high traffic retail or service areas (most stations in Adelaide) should be rezoned to encourage the development of those kinds of land use. Ultimately, urban planning in Adelaide should be focused on refocusing the city around the transit network. More so than any other Australian capital, Adelaide's rail network is completely divorced from the major destinations around the metropolitan area. We should try and encourage development around existing stations, so our urban form more resembles something like Sydney's.

As has already been pointed out, Dudley Park is an inner-suburban growth area. Kilburn and Chidda are surrounded by large areas of highly develop-able land which could be utilised for transit oriented development. Parafield Gardens and Broadmedows are major suburban stations. A quick look at a map will tell you why they are important - they are surrounded and fed into by large swathes of suburbia which would be left without a reliable transport connection in the event of closure.

Of course, there are certain stations which should be either closed or consolidated because they are ridiculously close to other stations. The prime example of such a station on the Gawler Line is Green Fields. Gawler Oval is also very close to other stations. However generally, stations on the Outer Harbor line are well spaced. The Gawler line would benefit far, far less from station consolidation than other lines like the Outer Harbor and Seaford.

The other station on the Gawler line which could potentially be targeted for closure is Kudla. It is a completely rural station in the middle of the green belt between Gawler and Adelaide, where development is prohibited, and likely will remain so for the foreseeable future.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3431 Post by OlympusAnt » Fri May 18, 2018 3:45 pm

Bring in request stops
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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3432 Post by omada » Fri May 18, 2018 4:03 pm

It's a tough one, you need the stations to attract people to public transport in the first place.

The new 30 minute frequency will help with this surely and they need a public awareness campaign once the line has been updated.

It's hard to ween people from their cars, increase tax on fuel I say! But tha'ts another story.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3433 Post by PeFe » Fri May 18, 2018 4:56 pm

The whole Gawler line needs (dare I say it).....a master plan.

Yep, something conceived and then implemented as a whole, controversial yes, because there could be some "losers" under station culling etc

As as others have rightly pointed out, the lame local media will be pushing headlines like this
"Residents protest loss of local train station !!!.......20 residents gathered to protest the planned closure of their local train station. Fred smith says he uses the train station 2 times a week and has touble walking to the bus stop which is 100 metres further away......."

Should the Gawler line be express to Dry Creek? Churchill Road residents could use the local bus service.....

Yes cull the number of stations and then focus resources on the remaining stations (tod's etc) and maybe efficiencies could come from cutting the number of buses travelling into the city and focussing the bus services as train feeders.....

Something for Stephen Knoll to ponder over the next 4 years, after all he has got to find something elese to do apart from open Labor's newly completed projects (the tram extensions, the Port Dock extension, the Flinders Link, the T2T expressway)
Last edited by PeFe on Sun May 27, 2018 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3434 Post by claybro » Fri May 18, 2018 5:27 pm

So it seems most here agree there needs to be at least some culling of stations on the whole network, a major upgrade of stations and the areas/services surrounding stations. we recognise that the different transport modes should complement each other not compete with each other. We all agree that spending billions on the rail system is wasted without these other components. Commuters are also voting with their feet, by not using the system...so what now. Where are the urban planners in our midst, or at universities in SA that can point the government in the right direction. Who's ear do we all get in to? Who and in what department is responsible for the overall vision....because this stuff takes in multiple departments, all of which are competing for scarce dollars.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3435 Post by how good is he » Fri May 18, 2018 9:41 pm

They can & should do a cost/benefit analysis etc on the merits of each project. Infrastructure SA could do it, esp as it’s an independent body. So projects can be analysed, planned, funded and built regardless of the Govt in power.

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