News & Discussion: Trams

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
Message
Author
User avatar
Llessur2002
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1247
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:59 pm
Location: West Croydon
Has thanked: 355 times
Been thanked: 547 times

Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#3586 Post by Llessur2002 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:53 am

Did Downer's previous proposal state what sort of service they planned to run? Would it be a stopping service (albeit only three stops) as per the other tram routes with fares in line with the rest of the Adelaide Metro system or would it be an entirely private line solely for airport transfers (with usual airport-level fares around $20-30 or so) that just happens to link in with the rest of the tram system for access to the CBD?

That, to me, would be a big driver of which route would be best - if it's the latter and no incidental uplift to the chosen corridor is intended then why bother with HBR or SDB when there is potentially a direct route via Keswick Drain? If it's the former then it would be stupid to consider the drain as an option.

To be honest, as much a I love the idea of an extended tram system, I'd definitely not be supportive of a higher-priced airport-only service along either SDB or HBR - it would be such a shame to preclude the use of these corridors for new transport systems that do provide an economic uplift for the local area for an airport service that is already adequately served by a bus. If the State Government does allow private investment in the network then it should be on the provision that fares and ticketing technology are aligned with the broader Adelaide Metro system, and that adequate numbers of stops are put in to allow the use of the line by the general public and commuters (obviously that doesn't prevent them from running separate express services to the airport).

claybro
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 1643
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:16 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 148 times

Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#3587 Post by claybro » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:06 am

Llessur2002 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:53 am
Did Downer's previous proposal state what sort of service they planned to run? Would it be a stopping service (albeit only three stops) as per the other tram routes with fares in line with the rest of the Adelaide Metro system or would it be an entirely private line solely for airport transfers (with usual airport-level fares around $20-30 or so) that just happens to link in with the rest of the tram system for access to the CBD?

That, to me, would be a big driver of which route would be best - if it's the latter and no incidental uplift to the chosen corridor is intended then why bother with HBR or SDB when there is potentially a direct route via Keswick Drain? If it's the former then it would be stupid to consider the drain as an option.

To be honest, as much a I love the idea of an extended tram system, I'd definitely not be supportive of a higher-priced airport-only service along either SDB or HBR - it would be such a shame to preclude the use of these corridors for new transport systems that do provide an economic uplift for the local area for an airport service that is already adequately served by a bus. If the State Government does allow private investment in the network then it should be on the provision that fares and ticketing technology are aligned with the broader Adelaide Metro system, and that adequate numbers of stops are put in to allow the use of the line by the general public and commuters (obviously that doesn't prevent them from running separate express services to the airport).
The sketchy information provided so far clearly indicates it is intended to be limited stops. Going by what happens at other airports with rail connection, intermediate stops used by local commuters are charged at normal fares, whilst those boarding at the airport attract a higher charge. As others have mentioned here, the dis incentive in Adelaide to use PT from the airport to the city is the short distance and therefore the low cost of taxi/uber fares. 2 or more tourists travelling together really negates any saving using PT. It should really be looked at as an urban renewal project, with the added benefit of airport access rather than the other way around.

User avatar
Will409
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1034
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:12 am
Location: Parafield Gardens
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#3588 Post by Will409 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:26 pm

In a bit of a change of discussion away from the extensions for a moment, Lord Mayor Martin Hease has suggested a heritage tram service using some of the surviving H type trams be introduced on Sundays as a heritage/tourist operation. The Advertiser had an article about it yesterday (available here behind a paywall - https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenge ... 94546e46d1)

On behalf of the Tramway Museum, St Kilda, I was interviewed on ABC Radio yesterday afternoon about this proposal. Jump to 17:30 for the interview (http://www.abc.net.au/radio/adelaide/pr ... s/10216010).

adelaide transport
High Rise Poster!
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:01 pm
Has thanked: 140 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#3589 Post by adelaide transport » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:05 pm

Unfortunately there is nowhere to stable them at Glengowrie as depot is full with 24 trams.

User avatar
Ho Really
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 2050
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:29 pm
Location: In your head
Has thanked: 263 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#3590 Post by Ho Really » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:28 pm

claybro wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:16 am
You raised an interesting point in your reply Ho. And thanks for the maps BTW. If a Keswick creek had to be on raised track because of the drain, you would then need to wall in the backyards of every house along the creek through Richmond/Cowandilla to prevent loss of privacy of those properties. I would imagine those along that stretch would seek some compensation for their loss of amenity, and maybe some loss of land due to large footings etc. Parts of the creek reserve, while wide enough for laying of standard tracks, digging large foundations to support a raised track system is another point entirely. From you map, it would appear the most direct route is the SBD route straight along Grote street to Vic Square to join the existing CBD track.
I also think privacy is the biggest issue along the Keswick Creek. The noise can be canceled or kept to a minimum. There are many types of materials that can be used to suppress noise. Rolling stock and tracks (of varying types) can also limit noise.

Raising the track above the drain will probably require stronger footings. My idea was putting a raised cover over the drain.

Another option that I didn't mention, would be to lower the track into the drain itself. Possibly digging a few metres below the bed of the drain to enclose the track. This will also allow grade separation when intersecting roads. If this option is considered the drain itself would have to be either eliminated completely, diverted or lowered under the track. If the drain goes underneath the track it will be much lower than at present. Water coming from upstream will be gravity fed into pipes (or culvert) running under the track until it reaches the Airport where the water is stored in underground reservoirs. From there it can be pumped back to the surface or into other drains via solar powered pumps. The water then can be used to irrigate the Airport surrounds. I also think the underground reservoirs will help mitigate any flooding at the Airport should there be a 1-in-a-100 year flood event. Two infrastructure works combined into one major project.

There’s one more interesting option. In China they've tested trams that require no tracks. See the article: Are trackless trams a game changer? by the Property Council of Australia. Called Autonomous Rail Rapid Transit (ART) it runs on rubber tyres, is guided by magnetic strips in the road and powered by lithium-ion batteries. So no need for overhead wires and rails. An interesting proposition should Adelaide be interested. Both Perth and Hobart are looking at this technology. This could be a game changer, as they say. I personally think they could expand this to be powered by an induction system which will give the tram continuous power instead of recharging at stops (as planned), unless of course the induction system interferes with the magnetic guidance on the road surface.

Cheers
Confucius say: Dumb man climb tree to get cherry, wise man spread limbs.

rubberman
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1144
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:32 pm
Has thanked: 120 times
Been thanked: 200 times

Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#3591 Post by rubberman » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:30 pm

Ho Really wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:28 pm
claybro wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:16 am
You raised an interesting point in your reply Ho. And thanks for the maps BTW. If a Keswick creek had to be on raised track because of the drain, you would then need to wall in the backyards of every house along the creek through Richmond/Cowandilla to prevent loss of privacy of those properties. I would imagine those along that stretch would seek some compensation for their loss of amenity, and maybe some loss of land due to large footings etc. Parts of the creek reserve, while wide enough for laying of standard tracks, digging large foundations to support a raised track system is another point entirely. From you map, it would appear the most direct route is the SBD route straight along Grote street to Vic Square to join the existing CBD track.
I also think privacy is the biggest issue along the Keswick Creek. The noise can be canceled or kept to a minimum. There are many types of materials that can be used to suppress noise. Rolling stock and tracks (of varying types) can also limit noise.

Raising the track above the drain will probably require stronger footings. My idea was putting a raised cover over the drain.

Another option that I didn't mention, would be to lower the track into the drain itself. Possibly digging a few metres below the bed of the drain to enclose the track. This will also allow grade separation when intersecting roads. If this option is considered the drain itself would have to be either eliminated completely, diverted or lowered under the track. If the drain goes underneath the track it will be much lower than at present. Water coming from upstream will be gravity fed into pipes (or culvert) running under the track until it reaches the Airport where the water is stored in underground reservoirs. From there it can be pumped back to the surface or into other drains via solar powered pumps. The water then can be used to irrigate the Airport surrounds. I also think the underground reservoirs will help mitigate any flooding at the Airport should there be a 1-in-a-100 year flood event. Two infrastructure works combined into one major project.

There’s one more interesting option. In China they've tested trams that require no tracks. See the article: Are trackless trams a game changer? by the Property Council of Australia. Called Autonomous Rail Rapid Transit (ART) it runs on rubber tyres, is guided by magnetic strips in the road and powered by lithium-ion batteries. So no need for overhead wires and rails. An interesting proposition should Adelaide be interested. Both Perth and Hobart are looking at this technology. This could be a game changer, as they say. I personally think they could expand this to be powered by an induction system which will give the tram continuous power instead of recharging at stops (as planned), unless of course the induction system interferes with the magnetic guidance on the road surface.

Cheers
Trackless trams. They are called buses.

rubberman
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1144
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:32 pm
Has thanked: 120 times
Been thanked: 200 times

Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#3592 Post by rubberman » Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:04 pm

I noticed today a tram doing a South Terrace shuttle run. Anyone know the reason?

adelaide transport
High Rise Poster!
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:01 pm
Has thanked: 140 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#3593 Post by adelaide transport » Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:21 pm

City to Bay Fun Run meant City closed down for a time this morning. Special high frequency timetable operated from Brighton Road from early morning till 2pm.

User avatar
timtam20292
Legendary Member!
Posts: 862
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:03 pm
Has thanked: 683 times
Been thanked: 106 times

Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#3594 Post by timtam20292 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:41 pm

Dear Stakeholder

The Department of Planning, Transport and Infrastructure (DPTI) would like to notify you of speed and lane restrictions required for profiling and asphalting works at the intersection of King William Road and North Terrace, as part of the City Tram Extension.

Traffic will be restricted at the south east corner of the King William Road and North Terrace intersection to allow appropriate drying time for asphalting works, between 1am Saturday 22 September and 6:30am Sunday 23 September.

Traffic will be maintained in all directions through the intersection, with signage and traffic management in place to advise motorists of changed conditions. Speed and lane restrictions will be in place in the vicinity of the works. Tram services will not be affected during these works.

Access to businesses and properties will be maintained.

Thank you for your continued patience and ongoing interest in the City Tram Extension Project whilst testing continues.

For more information on the City Tram Extension Project please visit www.citytramextension.sa.gov.au, call the enquiry line on 1300 030 919 or email DPTI.CityTramExt@sa.gov.au.

Regards

Stakeholder and Community Engagement Team

User avatar
The Scooter Guy
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:45 pm
Location: Anywhere!
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 87 times
Contact:

Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#3595 Post by The Scooter Guy » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:46 pm

timtam20292 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:41 pm
Dear Stakeholder

The Department of Planning, Transport and Infrastructure (DPTI) would like to notify you of speed and lane restrictions required for profiling and asphalting works at the intersection of King William Road and North Terrace, as part of the City Tram Extension.

Traffic will be restricted at the south east corner of the King William Road and North Terrace intersection to allow appropriate drying time for asphalting works, between 1am Saturday 22 September and 6:30am Sunday 23 September.

Traffic will be maintained in all directions through the intersection, with signage and traffic management in place to advise motorists of changed conditions. Speed and lane restrictions will be in place in the vicinity of the works. Tram services will not be affected during these works.

Access to businesses and properties will be maintained.

Thank you for your continued patience and ongoing interest in the City Tram Extension Project whilst testing continues.

For more information on the City Tram Extension Project please visit www.citytramextension.sa.gov.au, call the enquiry line on 1300 030 919 or email DPTI.CityTramExt@sa.gov.au.

Regards

Stakeholder and Community Engagement Team
One step closer to opening!
The True Location of Tea Tree Gully is in any state but yours.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWk8YPx2zHziHgvyPy_9fxQ
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanthescooterguy/
http://ryansbedroom.tumblr.com/

User avatar
1NEEDS2POST
Sen-Rookie-Sational
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:01 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#3596 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:28 pm

On the south-west side of the King William St/North Tce intersection, the lines that vehicles are meant to stop behind have been covered with a new layer of road. This creates a huge problem for the tram. If you look at the tram track that turns left into North Tce, it cuts the corner. That's why the stopping lines were staggered. Now the lines are covered, occasionally cars will stop beyond where they are supposed to stop.

I sat on the tram for two cycles at that intersection because cars were blocking the track. :wallbash: A bus could have easily driven around them. This is one reason why trams were ripped out in the 1950s.

Goodsy
Legendary Member!
Posts: 791
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:39 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 114 times

Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#3597 Post by Goodsy » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:13 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:28 pm
A bus could have easily driven around them. This is one reason why trams were ripped out in the 1950s.
that's a bit of a stretch

ozisnowman
High Rise Poster!
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:34 pm
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#3598 Post by ozisnowman » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:09 pm

Install cameras and fine them heavily they will quickly learn to avoid queuing over the lines

Waewick
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 3252
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:39 pm
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#3599 Post by Waewick » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:37 pm

ozisnowman wrote:Install cameras and fine them heavily they will quickly learn to avoid queuing over the lines
Surely they can be put on the front of a tram.

Agree with the heavy fines.

User avatar
Llessur2002
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1247
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:59 pm
Location: West Croydon
Has thanked: 355 times
Been thanked: 547 times

Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#3600 Post by Llessur2002 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:37 am

Sounds like a very temporary problem where the new asphalt has been laid but the lines have not yet been marked. It's probably resolved already. Not a big deal.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: alexczarn, Baidu [Spider] and 9 guests