News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

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claybro
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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Netw

#2971 Post by claybro » Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:41 pm

rubberman wrote:SA Water, for example used to look 50 years ahead for planning dams and major infrastructure. Highways Dept used to as well. So, why the resistance for public transport planning?
When they come up with a cohesive, funded and chronological plan for upgrades to the existing network within the current metro boundary, including finalising electrification, culling and then upgrading of all remaining stations, grade separation of major level crossings, finalisation of the North/South motorway, and upgrade of existing road surfaces to metro and rural highways (at the current rate about 20 years worth of work with still no etailed plans), only then should they consider extending commuter rail to Aldinga/ Two Wells or wherever. The other option, if developers want to plonk housing out in Two Wells or Dublin, then make them pay for the rail, add the cost to their housing ,and we might come somewhere near the true cost of these sprawling suburbs.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Netw

#2972 Post by Goodsy » Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:51 pm

claybro wrote:
rubberman wrote:SA Water, for example used to look 50 years ahead for planning dams and major infrastructure. Highways Dept used to as well. So, why the resistance for public transport planning?
When they come up with a cohesive, funded and chronological plan for upgrades to the existing network within the current metro boundary, including finalising electrification, culling and then upgrading of all remaining stations, grade separation of major level crossings, finalisation of the North/South motorway, and upgrade of existing road surfaces to metro and rural highways (at the current rate about 20 years worth of work with still no etailed plans), only then should they consider extending commuter rail to Aldinga/ Two Wells or wherever. The other option, if developers want to plonk housing out in Two Wells or Dublin, then make them pay for the rail, add the cost to their housing ,and we might come somewhere near the true cost of these sprawling suburbs.
They're already plonking housing in Two Wells, it's full steam ahead out here with Eden Two Wells... Most roads are already finished with street lights

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Netw

#2973 Post by SouthAussie94 » Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:07 pm

The rail component of the Northern Connector (when it is eventually built) basically makes the standard guage rail line between Dry Creek and Waterloo Corner redundant. Could this form the basis of a suburban rail line to Virginia/Two Wells?
Last edited by SouthAussie94 on Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Netw

#2974 Post by Goodsy » Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:16 pm

SouthAussie94 wrote:The rail component of the Northern Connector (when it is eventually built) basically make the standard guage rail line between Dry Creek and Waterloo Corner basically redundant. Could this form the basis of a suburban rail line to Virginia/Two Wells?
I thought the rail component was mothballed

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Netw

#2975 Post by Norman » Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:31 pm

GoodSmackUp wrote:
SouthAussie94 wrote:The rail component of the Northern Connector (when it is eventually built) basically make the standard guage rail line between Dry Creek and Waterloo Corner basically redundant. Could this form the basis of a suburban rail line to Virginia/Two Wells?
I thought the rail component was mothballed
It's still part of the project, just not funded yet.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Netw

#2976 Post by rubberman » Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:37 pm

claybro wrote:
rubberman wrote:SA Water, for example used to look 50 years ahead for planning dams and major infrastructure. Highways Dept used to as well. So, why the resistance for public transport planning?
When they come up with a cohesive, funded and chronological plan for upgrades to the existing network within the current metro boundary, including finalising electrification, culling and then upgrading of all remaining stations, grade separation of major level crossings, finalisation of the North/South motorway, and upgrade of existing road surfaces to metro and rural highways (at the current rate about 20 years worth of work with still no etailed plans), only then should they consider extending commuter rail to Aldinga/ Two Wells or wherever. The other option, if developers want to plonk housing out in Two Wells or Dublin, then make them pay for the rail, add the cost to their housing ,and we might come somewhere near the true cost of these sprawling suburbs.
It's not an either/or situation. There's zero reason not to do basic planning for infill AND fringe development.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Netw

#2977 Post by Norman » Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:02 pm

For what it's worth, the Aldinga rail corridor has already been secured.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Netw

#2978 Post by PeFe » Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:04 am

And realistically the Aldinga corridor will be the only new heavy rail in Adelaide in the next 50 years.
If we see that built before 2030 I will be amazed, besides there are plenty of upgrades,grade segregation etc, needed on the current infrastructure.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Netw

#2979 Post by rubberman » Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:35 am

PeFe wrote:And realistically the Aldinga corridor will be the only new heavy rail in Adelaide in the next 50 years.
If we see that built before 2030 I will be amazed, besides there are plenty of upgrades,grade segregation etc, needed on the current infrastructure.
You are probably correct. And I have no doubt that the Northern suburbs will end up as ghettos with no decent mass transit corridor being able to be built because land resumption at escalating house prices will be a nightmare that politicians will avoid. :oops:

We can only point out what the right course of action is, and then those who steadfastly refuse to plan for the future can have that stupidity shoved in their faces in the future forever when the outcome becomes clear.

Yes, there are plenty of upgrades required on the present infrastructure. However, that infrastructure is actually LESS than we had a century ago. That's right. Adelaide is trying to run a city of 1.3m people on a system designed when we had 200,000 people. But hey, let's not even plan to expand it. If it's good enough for grandpa, it's good enough for us. :wink:

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Netw

#2980 Post by PeFe » Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:25 pm

I need to backtrack a little on my previous post.....the next new railway line to open in Adelaide will be the Flinders extension, hopefully 2019 (?)......then Aldinga in 2030 (a big guess)

Rubberman I partially agree with you in the sense that planning is essential but planning for what? More suburban sprawl? No thanks,
urban infill is the way to go.....Adelaide already sprawls 80 kilometres up and down the coast, that really is enough.
The current railway infrastructure could easily support the transport needs of a much bigger city, grade separate the train lines and then you can run as many trains as you wish (maybe 30 per hour), build an underground section in the CBD etc.
Bus frequencies could be increased with increased bus only lanes, new tram lines etc.......its not exactly rocket science.

For example the Gawler line.....40 kms of barren wasteland next to the line, train stations that 3rd world countries would reject,
plenty of opportunity to plan and integrate development around rebuilt train stations.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Netw

#2981 Post by PD2/20 » Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:43 pm

PeFe wrote: ...

For example the Gawler line.....40 kms of barren wasteland next to the line, train stations that 3rd world countries would reject,
plenty of opportunity to plan and integrate development around rebuilt train stations.
Strange, last time I travelled on the Gawler line I passed freight distribution depots, modern residential and university development, light industry, an airfield, aquifer water recharging schemes, car manufacturing, defence facilities, shopping developments, more residential development, electricity supply facilities, modern stations at Mawson Lakes, Parafield, Chidda, Elizabeth South, Elizabeth, Broadmeadows, Munno Para. Some barren wasteland!

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Netw

#2982 Post by Goodsy » Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:00 pm

PD2/20 wrote:
PeFe wrote: ...

For example the Gawler line.....40 kms of barren wasteland next to the line, train stations that 3rd world countries would reject,
plenty of opportunity to plan and integrate development around rebuilt train stations.
Strange, last time I travelled on the Gawler line I passed freight distribution depots, modern residential and university development, light industry, an airfield, aquifer water recharging schemes, car manufacturing, defence facilities, shopping developments, more residential development, electricity supply facilities, modern stations at Mawson Lakes, Parafield, Chidda, Elizabeth South, Elizabeth, Broadmeadows, Munno Para. Some barren wasteland!

Yep.. there's a 4km stretch of the Gawler Line inbetween Munno Para and Gawler that is farmland, the rest is entirely built up. Is it scary to think Adelaide's edge is only 4km away from Gawler?

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Netw

#2983 Post by jk1237 » Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:48 pm

PD2/20 wrote:
PeFe wrote: ...

For example the Gawler line.....40 kms of barren wasteland next to the line, train stations that 3rd world countries would reject,
plenty of opportunity to plan and integrate development around rebuilt train stations.
Strange, last time I travelled on the Gawler line I passed freight distribution depots, modern residential and university development, light industry, an airfield, aquifer water recharging schemes, car manufacturing, defence facilities, shopping developments, more residential development, electricity supply facilities, modern stations at Mawson Lakes, Parafield, Chidda, Elizabeth South, Elizabeth, Broadmeadows, Munno Para. Some barren wasteland!
no no, what he's meaning is that the Gawler train line, would by far, have the least amount of housing next to it, of any train line in the country for its length. The amount of barren open space, airports, factories and cemeteries, rail yards, RAAF base etc that surround the stations is huge

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Netw

#2984 Post by Kasey771 » Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:56 pm

rubberman wrote:
Norman wrote:
rubberman wrote: Have you got a source for that 70% figure?

The official figures from DPTI website indicate it's closer to 50%. But if there's something more up to date I'd be interested in seeing it.
https://livingadelaide.sa.gov.au/conten ... ements.pdf

Check Page 3.
Ok, thanks for that. :D Apologies for the tardy response...long weekend and all. :lol:

Interesting that there's an implied difference between those population figures, and the other figures from DPTI. However, as the report you quoted itself says, infill just stretches out the time frame. It does not eliminate the fringe growth. So, whether its 20 years, or 30 years, the issue still remains of how that area is to be serviced, and my question still remains of how hard is it for the government to identify a corridor to provide that service? Whether that's 20 or 30 or 50 years is not the point. SA Water, for example used to look 50 years ahead for planning dams and major infrastructure. Highways Dept used to as well. So, why the resistance for public transport planning?

I stand corrected on the matter of Don D not being the one to sell the South Road land.
Put simply we are dominated by the number of owner/operators of single occupancy vehicles. Any money spent on PT is money not being spent on the quixotic quest to alleviate congestion by building ever wider and smoother roads. These people vote and pollies know they'll cop an electoral backlash if they even propose a $5 bicycle lane sign, let alone put any money towards much needed PT infrastructure. Adelaide has far too many people who when they decide they want to go somewhere they only think CAR :| :| :wallbash: :wallbash:
Big infrastructure investments are usually under-valued and & over-criticized while in the planning stage. It's much easier to envision the here and now costs and inconveniences, and far more difficult to imagine fully the eventual benefits.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Netw

#2985 Post by PD2/20 » Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:36 pm

jk1237 wrote:
PD2/20 wrote:
PeFe wrote: ...

For example the Gawler line.....40 kms of barren wasteland next to the line, train stations that 3rd world countries would reject,
plenty of opportunity to plan and integrate development around rebuilt train stations.
Strange, last time I travelled on the Gawler line I passed freight distribution depots, modern residential and university development, light industry, an airfield, aquifer water recharging schemes, car manufacturing, defence facilities, shopping developments, more residential development, electricity supply facilities, modern stations at Mawson Lakes, Parafield, Chidda, Elizabeth South, Elizabeth, Broadmeadows, Munno Para. Some barren wasteland!
no no, what he's meaning is that the Gawler train line, would by far, have the least amount of housing next to it, of any train line in the country for its length. The amount of barren open space, airports, factories and cemeteries, rail yards, RAAF base etc that surround the stations is huge
The use of the term 'barren wasteland' conveys a non-productive use of the land and implies the only valid form of development is residential. I acknowledge that the NW quadrant of Adelaide has a lower density of housing than the other quadrants but this is part is because of the other productive uses that the land has been put to. This consideration may in part why this quadrant hasn't seen the development of a PT corridor as was being advocated earlier in the thread. Compare the NNW corridor to the NE corridor with the O-Bahn passing through the continuous suburban development in the NE.

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