News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3241 Post by I Follow PAFC » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:25 pm

Could be delays for the OH line reopening.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3242 Post by OlympusAnt » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:21 pm

It may have already been mentioned, but the shelter at Grange Station is being rebuilt
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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3243 Post by Ser Noit of Loit » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:04 pm

On the train today I was thinking about, well trains, and what could be done if the Belair line ever gets to the point where it being a single track is causing significant issues. It'd be almost impossible to widen the line to add a new track since the inner southern suburbs are full of old and very established properties and all sorts of problems would arise when you get to the hills. The solution could be to build a subway that follows the path of the line above. Trains into the city use the ground level and ones out use the subway.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3244 Post by Norman » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:42 pm

Ser Noit of Loit wrote:On the train today I was thinking about, well trains, and what could be done if the Belair line ever gets to the point where it being a single track is causing significant issues. It'd be almost impossible to widen the line to add a new track since the inner southern suburbs are full of old and very established properties and all sorts of problems would arise when you get to the hills. The solution could be to build a subway that follows the path of the line above. Trains into the city use the ground level and ones out use the subway.
If this does ever happen (which I can't see happening for many years or decades yet) they can reroute the freight line and use the double track.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3245 Post by SBD » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:19 am

Norman wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:42 pm
Ser Noit of Loit wrote:On the train today I was thinking about, well trains, and what could be done if the Belair line ever gets to the point where it being a single track is causing significant issues. It'd be almost impossible to widen the line to add a new track since the inner southern suburbs are full of old and very established properties and all sorts of problems would arise when you get to the hills. The solution could be to build a subway that follows the path of the line above. Trains into the city use the ground level and ones out use the subway.
If this does ever happen (which I can't see happening for many years or decades yet) they can reroute the freight line and use the double track.
Isn't that Steven Marshall's long-term intent? Trains from Melbourne would turn north near Monarto, then cross the ranges near the Sturt Highway and enter the Adelaide area near the Northern Connector. That gets interstate freight out of the southern Adelaide hills and away from the Salisbury level crossings.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3246 Post by Norman » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:34 am

SBD wrote:
Norman wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:42 pm
Ser Noit of Loit wrote:On the train today I was thinking about, well trains, and what could be done if the Belair line ever gets to the point where it being a single track is causing significant issues. It'd be almost impossible to widen the line to add a new track since the inner southern suburbs are full of old and very established properties and all sorts of problems would arise when you get to the hills. The solution could be to build a subway that follows the path of the line above. Trains into the city use the ground level and ones out use the subway.
If this does ever happen (which I can't see happening for many years or decades yet) they can reroute the freight line and use the double track.
Isn't that Steven Marshall's long-term intent? Trains from Melbourne would turn north near Monarto, then cross the ranges near the Sturt Highway and enter the Adelaide area near the Northern Connector. That gets interstate freight out of the southern Adelaide hills and away from the Salisbury level crossings.
From what I remember he was only promising (at most) the Hills component, not the Northern Connector part. With the Hills component, I can't remember if he said yes to the road bit and maybe to the rail, or vice versa.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3247 Post by bdm » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:41 am

Norman wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:34 am
SBD wrote:
Norman wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:42 pm
If this does ever happen (which I can't see happening for many years or decades yet) they can reroute the freight line and use the double track.
Isn't that Steven Marshall's long-term intent? Trains from Melbourne would turn north near Monarto, then cross the ranges near the Sturt Highway and enter the Adelaide area near the Northern Connector. That gets interstate freight out of the southern Adelaide hills and away from the Salisbury level crossings.
From what I remember he was only promising (at most) the Hills component, not the Northern Connector part. With the Hills component, I can't remember if he said yes to the road bit and maybe to the rail, or vice versa.
http://www.rdamr.org.au/fileadmin/user_ ... Report.pdf

This 2010 report from GHD gives the options re Adelaide rail bypasses. They went with upgrading the existing alignment (hence the upgrades to Goodwood and Torrens junctions).
adl rail freight.JPG
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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3248 Post by EBG » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:04 pm

You all seem to be forgetting that when this labour government announced the electrification of the Seaford, Gawler and Outer Harbour lines to start in 2008 and be finished by 2013,this included the standardisation of all 4 lines as well . All work in Adelaide has since been done using gauge convertible sleepers. By now the problem of the hills line should only be a memory. There is no need of these cross country solutions.

Besides why should people in the northern and far southern suburbs put up with more trains just so the people at Mitcham can sleep peacefully - All of whom bought their houses knowing that freight trains travelled on the hills line ( since at least the1880's).

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3249 Post by Goodsy » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:23 pm

EBG wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:04 pm
You all seem to be forgetting that when this labour government announced the electrification of the Seaford, Gawler and Outer Harbour lines to start in 2008 and be finished by 2013,this included the standardisation of all 4 lines as well . All work in Adelaide has since been done using gauge convertible sleepers.
So the Class 4000's were just an interim solution until the whole system was switched over?

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3250 Post by Norman » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:03 pm

GoodSmackUp wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:23 pm
EBG wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:04 pm
You all seem to be forgetting that when this labour government announced the electrification of the Seaford, Gawler and Outer Harbour lines to start in 2008 and be finished by 2013,this included the standardisation of all 4 lines as well . All work in Adelaide has since been done using gauge convertible sleepers.
So the Class 4000's were just an interim solution until the whole system was switched over?
I would think that bogies on the 4000-class can be changed to standard gauge with either adjustment or replacement.

However, I would be surprised if there will be a change of gauge in the next decade.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3251 Post by Norman » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:04 pm

I was going to post about this a few weeks ago, but forgot. These gates are open on weekends and nights, not sure about weekdays.

Seems like a waste of money because DPTI/Adelaide Metro don't like forking out money on operational costs of staff running the system.

Having staff onsite from first train to the last can also reduce the likelihood of crime at the station.
New electronic ticket gates at Salisbury railway station are right next to open barrier
James Gratton, Northern Weekly Messenger, The Advertiser
35 minutes ago

FARE dodgers are hitching free rides at a busy northern railway station, despite a security upgrade with a very obvious flaw.

The Transport Department installed electronic ticket gates, which are supposed to force passengers to tap on before boarding a train, at Salisbury in September.

However, fare evaders have been using a bypass through an entrance right next to the gates, which are activated only when a “compliance officer” is there anyway.

Steph Allan, who uses the interchange each day, said the new system was not deterring rogue travellers.

“I have to question why we have ticket gates at Salisbury railway station when the barriers have been left open for the past four weeks,” Ms Allan said.

“This will not stop ticket avoiders.”

Another commuter, Kira Lee Taylor, said the installation was a “joke” and was not “money well spent”.

The ticket gates were installed as part of a $2.1 million fare-evasion crackdown which included upgrades on CCTV cameras, lighting and security.

A Facebook post by the Transport Department, responding to commuters’ concerns, said the gates would only be activated when a compliance officer was manning the entrance.

The post said that when officers were not at the station, commuters would have to validate their ticket only on the train.

A department spokesman said the entrance next to the gates was left open when the station was unstaffed for safety reasons, but passengers were still required to validate their tickets on the train.

Opposition Transport spokesman David Pisoni was concerned that the ticket barriers were not being properly used.

“Letting fare evaders waltz through an open gate at the Salisbury railway station is just another example of the Weatherill Government’s failure to get the basics right,” Mr Pisoni said.

“There is no point investing $2 million in ticket barriers if there’s going to be an open gate next to them.”

The push to install the barriers came after 2200 people were caught evading fares on the Gawler line in the 2015/16 financial year.

Almost 3000 commuters were fined for not validating tickets in 2014/15.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3252 Post by PeFe » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:21 pm

The barriers should really be in use in use 18 hours a day, even if there is no staff to monitor compliance......

Their mere physical presence will deter some fare evaders (but obviously not all) and a few random visits from the local police at various hours of the early morning and late evening wouldn't hurt either.

I understand that the state government don't want (or cant afford ) to monitor the barriers 18 hours a day, but they have been built (along with upgraded cctv) so why not encourage people to use them, and leave the general public guessing whether local police might be patrolling the area.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3253 Post by Norman » Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:01 pm

PeFe wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:21 pm
The barriers should really be in use in use 18 hours a day, even if there is no staff to monitor compliance......

Their mere physical presence will deter some fare evaders (but obviously not all) and a few random visits from the local police at various hours of the early morning and late evening wouldn't hurt either.

I understand that the state government don't want (or cant afford ) to monitor the barriers 18 hours a day, but they have been built (along with upgraded cctv) so why not encourage people to use them, and leave the general public guessing whether local police might be patrolling the area.
Unfortunately they can't close the barriers if there is no staff in case someone's ticket is not working or in case of a security incident. If there is a knife-wielder or terrorist on the platform, you'd want to get out of there ASAP, not wait for your ticket to scan.

In Perth, unmanned stations also have open barriers, so it is a national process.

They really should increase the working hours of station staff to maximise the use of these barriers.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3254 Post by PeFe » Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:30 pm

It would still help if the local cops devoted some of their patrol time to the train station.

People will feel safer (and more likely to use public transport) if they see cops actively taking an interest in people coming and going out of the train station.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3255 Post by ChillyPhilly » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:30 am

Salisbury is my local station. I've seen progressively less 'compliance staff' there since the installation. I'll take some photos when I can.

Thing is, there's a station building with a permanently closed ticket office. I bet reopening that would do wonders. A bit of people presence goes a long way.
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