News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

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SouthAussie94
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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3331 Post by SouthAussie94 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:58 am

Tonsley213 wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:42 pm
EBG wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:50 pm
Preliminary work on relocating services has commenced on Sturt Rd in preparation to extend the rail line to Flinders Medical Centre. The current end of the line is in the back ground.
Do we know if this is for the train line and not associated with the road works?
I'm pretty sure it's a part of the road works. They're installing traffic lights at this intersection. Orange conduit is used for electrical.

Saying that, they could also be relocating services in readiness for the rail works.
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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3332 Post by PD2/20 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:20 am

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:13 pm
English Electric wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:50 am

Another random observation on Torrens Junction works....
Both the Gawler and Port lines through the Parklands have been rebuilt with gauge-convertible sleepers.

I can understand this with the tracks through the trench, since future conversion to light rail is still plausible (if the Port line ever goes to 4' 8½" with some sort of tram system). But presumably Mike Rann's Rail Revitalisation vision of converting the whole Adelaide Metro heavy rail to standard gauge is long gone. The last short bit of line re-laid as part of the Seaford electrification (the southern sets of tracks through the Adelaide Yard) was done with broad-gauge-only concrete sleepers, but seems they're persisting with the gauge-convertible option for the whole Gawler line.
Changing the bogie of the wheels on the electrics is no big deal.
Agreed. Swapping the bogies on an individual rail vehicle is a straightforward operation.

However the logistics of gauge converting an entire network are a mammoth exercise, in which the conversion of powered bogies, all running track, the rebuilding of point work and depot facilities have all to take place before you can run a service on the new gauge. Incremental conversion is not really possible without dual gauge track rather than gauge convertible. The concrete slab track in the Goodwood underpass is certainly not gauge convertible.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3333 Post by rhino » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:27 am

PD2/20 wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:43 pm
For the small projects since then such as the Grange line relaying at Woodville and the Nairne Jn - Torrens Jn -Bowden in 2017/18 sleepers from this supply have been used.
Where is Nairne Junction please? I live in Nairne, and am not aware of it.
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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3334 Post by Goodsy » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:53 am

rhino wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:27 am
PD2/20 wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:43 pm
For the small projects since then such as the Grange line relaying at Woodville and the Nairne Jn - Torrens Jn -Bowden in 2017/18 sleepers from this supply have been used.
Where is Nairne Junction please? I live in Nairne, and am not aware of it.
I think it's the name of the junction at the Adelaide Station

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3335 Post by SBD » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:14 am

PD2/20 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:20 am
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:13 pm
English Electric wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:50 am

Another random observation on Torrens Junction works....
Both the Gawler and Port lines through the Parklands have been rebuilt with gauge-convertible sleepers.

I can understand this with the tracks through the trench, since future conversion to light rail is still plausible (if the Port line ever goes to 4' 8½" with some sort of tram system). But presumably Mike Rann's Rail Revitalisation vision of converting the whole Adelaide Metro heavy rail to standard gauge is long gone. The last short bit of line re-laid as part of the Seaford electrification (the southern sets of tracks through the Adelaide Yard) was done with broad-gauge-only concrete sleepers, but seems they're persisting with the gauge-convertible option for the whole Gawler line.
Changing the bogie of the wheels on the electrics is no big deal.
Agreed. Swapping the bogies on an individual rail vehicle is a straightforward operation.

However the logistics of gauge converting an entire network are a mammoth exercise, in which the conversion of powered bogies, all running track, the rebuilding of point work and depot facilities have all to take place before you can run a service on the new gauge. Incremental conversion is not really possible without dual gauge track rather than gauge convertible. The concrete slab track in the Goodwood underpass is certainly not gauge convertible.
Another aspect of changing the gauge of the track on gauge-convertible sleepers is that it only moves one rail. Moving one rail 6½" closer to the other one moves the centreline 3¼" (82.5mm). Have the sleepers all been laid with sufficient safety margins against oncoming trains, signal poles and station platforms to move the trains that far across? If the ballast machines have to come along and pick up the track and shove it across to put the centre of the train back where it came from, I don't know how much is gained by gauge convertible sleepers. That said, if someone has them sitting in the back shed, they might as well be used rather than stored forever.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3336 Post by rhino » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:32 am

Goodsy wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:53 am
rhino wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:27 am
PD2/20 wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:43 pm
For the small projects since then such as the Grange line relaying at Woodville and the Nairne Jn - Torrens Jn -Bowden in 2017/18 sleepers from this supply have been used.
Where is Nairne Junction please? I live in Nairne, and am not aware of it.
I think it's the name of the junction at the Adelaide Station
Aah, that would make sense, as I believe the main south line was originally built to Nairne and known as the Nairne Railway. Thank you.
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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3337 Post by English Electric » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:37 pm

SBD wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:14 am
Another aspect of changing the gauge of the track on gauge-convertible sleepers is that it only moves one rail. Moving one rail 6½" closer to the other one moves the centreline 3¼" (82.5mm). Have the sleepers all been laid with sufficient safety margins against oncoming trains, signal poles and station platforms to move the trains that far across? If the ballast machines have to come along and pick up the track and shove it across to put the centre of the train back where it came from, I don't know how much is gained by gauge convertible sleepers. That said, if someone has them sitting in the back shed, they might as well be used rather than stored forever.
On normal stretches of double track the gauge-convertible sleepers have been consistently installed such that, if the conversion were ever done, oncoming trains would be a few inches further apart from each other than they are today. The double fixtures are in the middle of the rail formation (in the 6-foot, in old UK parlance) so the huge majority of the route should be fine regarding clearances.

Where the tracks approach an island platform, the position of the convertible bit of the sleepers can be seen to switch to the "outside". Woodville Park is one location where this happens, but it's pretty universal at the many island platform stations around the Metro system. I remember reading in the past that when standardisation occurred at these locations, the sleepers would need a bit of a "nudge" to get the right separation between the platform and carriage. And presumably they'd need the same sort of nudge at side platform stations too.

I wonder what effect the lateral shift has on the overhead on electrified lines? Is the alignment of the contact wire & pantograph critical at this scale? Probably not, given the degree of stagger on standard catenary, so no wide-scale realignment of the overhead would be needed (maybe some tinkering at junctions and crossovers). If the contact surface of the panto was getting worn 8 cm off centre on the Down journey, it would get equal wear 8 cm in the opposite direction on the Up.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3338 Post by omada » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:14 pm

ok Train geeks, I need your help - i'm curious sorry if this has been covered previously and I'm sure it has, but how easy would it be to reinstate the Belair to Bridgewater Service, from a technical standpoint. Is the line beyond Belair, now just a single standard gauge line ?

And I guess we could discuss whether the patronage would be sufficient.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3339 Post by Mr Messy » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:38 pm

Tldr; single standard gauge track. The freeway is quicker

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3340 Post by rhino » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:40 pm

The line is single track, standard gauge (Adelaide Metro rollingstock is broad gauge), and is owned by ARTC (Australian Rail Track Corporation). It is primarily a freight route, and is in as good condition as it ever was.

Travel time to Bridgewater via this route would take about twice as long at the 860 bus service; the 864 service would be a bit slower than the 860, but still much faster than the train.
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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3341 Post by claybro » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:05 pm

Aside from the issues previously mentioned, ie slow travel times v bus and conversion of the gauge beyond Belair, it doesn't make sense from a patronage point of view. In any other capital city however, the populations of towns beyond such as Mt Barker, and Murray Bridge would be booming and would probably warrant the expense of creating a new gauge for the Metro trains and straightening the line (not sure what route this would take or how much new tunnelling would be required). Eventually, the Mount Barker freeway will reach capacity, and rail may need to be considered as an alternative, but it is not on the radar in the foreseeable future. One other thing to take into consideration is that the current freight line and associated tunnels is going to cause constraint on the size of containers, speed of trains and noise complaints going forward, at which point this whole line may need to be completely re-designed, or abandoned for another route in to Adelaide. This could make or break future hills services.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3342 Post by EBG » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:22 pm

In 2007 the State Labour government announced that starting in 2008 all metropolitan lines were to be electrified and converted to standard gauge by 2013.except for the Belair line . No timetable was given for this line. Hence any track renewal work since that time was to use gauge convertible sleepers. The sole reason why this work has not been completed is due to the fact that the state government does not have the funds. This is shown by the on again/off again attempts to electrify the Gawler Line.

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3343 Post by omada » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:27 am

Thanks for the responses people, the opinion is clear, I didn't realise it took so long, guess that is why it closed in the first place.

As for the freight train noise, I live in Eden Hills and it is loud, but we knew that when we purchased the property and to be honest I can't see the merit in spending upwards of $1 billion to reroute via Murray Bridge, as the Libs have recently proposed. Even so, it would be great if it happened, then we could use the old railway as a dedicated bikeway :)

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3344 Post by Mr Messy » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:12 am


omada wrote:I can't see the merit in spending upwards of $1 billion to reroute via Murray Bridge, as the Libs have recently proposed. Even so, it would be great if it happened, then we could use the old railway as a dedicated bikeway :)
Not yet while the current line still has some capacity.

A better option would be to re-duplicate the Belair line

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Re: U/C: Electrification & Upgrade of the Adelaide Rail Network

#3345 Post by rubberman » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:02 am

Mr Messy wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:12 am
omada wrote:I can't see the merit in spending upwards of $1 billion to reroute via Murray Bridge, as the Libs have recently proposed. Even so, it would be great if it happened, then we could use the old railway as a dedicated bikeway :)
Not yet while the current line still has some capacity.

A better option would be to re-duplicate the Belair line
Not to enter the debate, but if the Libs get in, and they keep their promise, there's a couple of years arguing for funding. Then comes; environmental approvals, surveys, land purchases, geological investigations, concept and detailed design. Five years? More like ten, realistically. Then, there's probably five years to build it.

So, any capacity excess on the present Hills Line needs to serve for fifteen years. Is the excess that much?

If not, then the Liberal proposal has a lot of merit.

In any case, it would be much cheaper to do the planning, environmental approvals, surveying, final route selection and property purchase now (with rentals back to landowners in the meantime), so it's ready to go. Shovel ready.

In fact, it would be smart to have several big projects "shovel ready". If there's a big economic slump, having projects all ready to go avoids pink batts.

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