News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

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Eurostar
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3841 Post by Eurostar » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:00 am

ml69 wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:53 pm
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:47 pm
The renaming is logical and wise.

Would like to see this carried out elsewhere throughout the network where applicable, e.g. changing Dudley Park to Prospect.
While we’re on this, why couldn’t Kilburn be relocated out of the backstreets, and shifted 500m south adjacent to the Churchill Centre shopping centre and Costco? Create a decent pedestrian link to the new station and I bet patronage would be double or triple what Kilburn currently is.

Call it Churchill station.
Its a pity that part of the Islington Works land was turned into a shopping centre, it would of been good site for a big park and community pool.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3842 Post by Norman » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:52 am


Eurostar wrote:
ml69 wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:53 pm
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:47 pm
The renaming is logical and wise.

Would like to see this carried out elsewhere throughout the network where applicable, e.g. changing Dudley Park to Prospect.
While we’re on this, why couldn’t Kilburn be relocated out of the backstreets, and shifted 500m south adjacent to the Churchill Centre shopping centre and Costco? Create a decent pedestrian link to the new station and I bet patronage would be double or triple what Kilburn currently is.

Call it Churchill station.
Its a pity that part of the Islington Works land was turned into a shopping centre, it would of been good site for a big park and community pool.
I imagine site contamination would have been a big issue on this site. Remediation as well as construction would be well outside the council's financial capacity.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3843 Post by Aidan » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:40 pm

ml69 wrote: While we’re on this, why couldn’t Kilburn be relocated out of the backstreets, and shifted 500m south adjacent to the Churchill Centre shopping centre and Costco?
Why should residents lose their local station (and have many thousands of dollars wiped off the value of their houses) to benefit some commercial businesses who initially ignored the station?

The real problem with Kilburn station is the lack of a western exit.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3844 Post by rubberman » Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:00 am

Aidan wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:40 pm
ml69 wrote: While we’re on this, why couldn’t Kilburn be relocated out of the backstreets, and shifted 500m south adjacent to the Churchill Centre shopping centre and Costco?
Why should residents lose their local station (and have many thousands of dollars wiped off the value of their houses) to benefit some commercial businesses who initially ignored the station?

(Snip)
Why? Well, I guess it would depend on numbers of passengers. If the numbers using Kilburn as it is are great enough to justify the stop, your point is fair. However, if the numbers are small, then they risk losing their stop anyway. The idea of heavy rail is higher speeds with greater numbers of people and fewer stops enabling many people from greater distances to commute in reasonable time.

Is it fair that people who could take a bus from Churchill Road should delay people travelling from Gawler etc? The only fair answer is if there's enough of them to justify it. The idea of shifting the station nearer a shopping centre is to increase passenger numbers to the point where a stop makes sense.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3845 Post by ml69 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:53 am

Aidan wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:40 pm
ml69 wrote: While we’re on this, why couldn’t Kilburn be relocated out of the backstreets, and shifted 500m south adjacent to the Churchill Centre shopping centre and Costco?
Why should residents lose their local station (and have many thousands of dollars wiped off the value of their houses) to benefit some commercial businesses who initially ignored the station?
A new park n ride station at Churchill Centre will change commuter behaviour and increase transit usage in the adjacent suburbs after Gawler electrification, keeping Kilburn as it is will barely make any difference.

There is far greater capacity for a park n ride and kiss n ride drop-off in the Churchill Centre location, which could service the suburbs of Kilburn and Blair Athol. The new station should be deemed a “high frequency” station to really maximise the potential of the upgraded station.

Also likely to increase the trade of the shopping centre as people buy stuff on the way home.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3846 Post by SBD » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:37 pm

ml69 wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:53 am
Aidan wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:40 pm
ml69 wrote: While we’re on this, why couldn’t Kilburn be relocated out of the backstreets, and shifted 500m south adjacent to the Churchill Centre shopping centre and Costco?
Why should residents lose their local station (and have many thousands of dollars wiped off the value of their houses) to benefit some commercial businesses who initially ignored the station?
A new park n ride station at Churchill Centre will change commuter behaviour and increase transit usage in the adjacent suburbs after Gawler electrification, keeping Kilburn as it is will barely make any difference.

There is far greater capacity for a park n ride and kiss n ride drop-off in the Churchill Centre location, which could service the suburbs of Kilburn and Blair Athol. The new station should be deemed a “high frequency” station to really maximise the potential of the upgraded station.

Also likely to increase the trade of the shopping centre as people buy stuff on the way home.
Do we have passenger numbers for objective decision making? How many people per week walk to the current station, thus not requiring a car at all, compared to needing to drive to a park'n'ride at a "better" location that would have very few pedestrian-and-PT only passengers? I'm also not convinced that public transport must be solely geared towards office commuters in the big smoke. If it works for little old ladies to do their shopping and they have never driven, that should be valid too.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3847 Post by Ben » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:36 am

Flinders Link plans on DAC for upcoming meeting

https://www.saplanningcommission.sa.gov ... hments.pdf

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3848 Post by SRW » Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:00 pm

Looks like the remnant land in Laffers Triangle will become carparking.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3849 Post by muzzamo » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:09 am

SRW wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:00 pm
Looks like the remnant land in Laffers Triangle will become carparking.
From the document:
The development will see the removal of the existing, informal car parking area located
at the end of Lynton Avenue.
The Flinders Station is not intended to operate as a Park’n’Ride. The existing Health car
park adjacent the station is not available for general public parking. The nearest
Park’n’Ride facility is available at Clovelly Park station (Tonsley Development Site),
which currently operates on a temporary basis. One of the goals of the project is to
encourage a modal shift to bus and rail and provide improve connections between public
transport services and key destinations in the locality.
Not having a park n ride seems to be a missed opportunity although that "Health Car Park" would probably be a prime site to develop a multi story park and ride in the future.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3850 Post by muzzamo » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:10 am

SRW wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:00 pm
Looks like the remnant land in Laffers Triangle will become carparking.
In terms of the existing car park that is right next to the station -
The development will see the removal of the existing, informal car parking area located
at the end of Lynton Avenue.
The Flinders Station is not intended to operate as a Park’n’Ride. The existing Health car
park adjacent the station is not available for general public parking. The nearest
Park’n’Ride facility is available at Clovelly Park station (Tonsley Development Site),
which currently operates on a temporary basis. One of the goals of the project is to
encourage a modal shift to bus and rail and provide improve connections between public
transport services and key destinations in the locality.
Not having a park n ride seems to be a missed opportunity although hopefully that "health car park" can be increased in height somehow to accommodate a park and ride in the future.

Also of note:
The Flinders Link Project seeks to connect to the bus stops established through the
Darlington Upgrade Project. Bus stops are located on South Road and Flinders Drive, as
well as existing stops on Sturt Road. The vertical access points to the viaduct, located
east and west of South Road, provide pedestrian access down to the bus stops.
Passengers wishing to transfer from the new Flinders Station to the existing bus stops
at the front of Flinders Medical Centre will do so via the elevated walkway.
Comments received during the public notification queried the separation between the
proposed new train Station and existing bus stops. The location of the Flinders Station
reflects the broader vision of the DPA to facilitate the creation of an urban village on the
university playing field. The approximate distance from the Flinders Station to existing
bus stops at Flinders Medical Centre is 200-250 metres
Access to bus stops on Main South Road from the viaduct is via the lift or stairs on the
western and eastern sides of the road. The bus stops are located on the raised Main South
Road feeder lanes, not within the lowered motorway. The connectivity map shows the key
pedestrian / cyclist routes on the surrounding road network, and their interaction with the
new viaduct and train station. The user experience travelling along Main South Road is
managed through the Darlington Upgrade Project. The design of the stair / lift cores and
surrounding landscaping appears to provide safe connections through the area.
It seems that the bus/train connection is a little similar to the tram overpass across South Road, except there is a bit more of a walk along the viaduct once you are up on it to get to the station.

There also seems to be an elevated walkway across the health car park to FMC.
3.1.1_DPTI_Flinders_Link_Project_-_Report_and_Attachments.pdf - Google Chrome 2019-01-22 09.30.31.png
3.1.1_DPTI_Flinders_Link_Project_-_Report_and_Attachments.pdf - Google Chrome 2019-01-22 09.30.31.png (869.06 KiB) Viewed 244 times
3.1.1_DPTI_Flinders_Link_Project_-_Report_and_Attachments.pdf - Google Chrome 2019-01-22 09.18.36.png
3.1.1_DPTI_Flinders_Link_Project_-_Report_and_Attachments.pdf - Google Chrome 2019-01-22 09.18.36.png (115.46 KiB) Viewed 246 times
3.1.1_DPTI_Flinders_Link_Project_-_Report_and_Attachments.pdf - Google Chrome 2019-01-22 09.20.11.png
3.1.1_DPTI_Flinders_Link_Project_-_Report_and_Attachments.pdf - Google Chrome 2019-01-22 09.20.11.png (243.79 KiB) Viewed 246 times
Also, a glossy version of the document starts at page 43 and hit has *tons* of renders of the project so if you are time limited, start on that page :-)

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3851 Post by SBD » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:09 pm

muzzamo wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:09 am
SRW wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:00 pm
Looks like the remnant land in Laffers Triangle will become carparking.
From the document:
The development will see the removal of the existing, informal car parking area located
at the end of Lynton Avenue.
The Flinders Station is not intended to operate as a Park’n’Ride. The existing Health car
park adjacent the station is not available for general public parking. The nearest
Park’n’Ride facility is available at Clovelly Park station (Tonsley Development Site),
which currently operates on a temporary basis. One of the goals of the project is to
encourage a modal shift to bus and rail and provide improve connections between public
transport services and key destinations in the locality.
Not having a park n ride seems to be a missed opportunity although that "Health Car Park" would probably be a prime site to develop a multi story park and ride in the future.
Were would people be driving from that would make Clovelly Park significantly more onerous than Bedford Park to drive to/from? Clovelly Park station is to be upgraded (or moved/replaced) as part of the project I think. By definition, users of a Park'n'Ride have already decided to get in their cars and drive part of the way to their destination. Adding 2km to get to a suitable facility instead of mixing commuter and hospital/university parking doesn't seem too unreasonable. Park'n'Ride facilities at or close to major shopping centres seem to result in conflict of parking uses.

EDIT/UPDATE: I have looked at the Darlington Upgrade plan. traffic coming north on South Road has to cross two lanes of traffic in a fairly short space to get to the right turn lane for Flinders Drive - not something you want a LOT of people to be doing during morning peak. Alternatively, traffic from both South Road and Southern Expressway can drive in the trench under Flinders Drive, Sturt Road and Ayliffes Road, then pop up and only cross one lane to get into Tonsley Boulevard if the concept diagram turned out to be what they are building.

I'm not sure what the "right way" will be to get from Ayliffes Road to Clovelly park station, possibly a U-turn at Mimosa Terrace/Sutton Road which makes the morning drive a little longer and the evening a little shorter than if the Park'n'ride was at the rail terminus.
Last edited by SBD on Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3852 Post by SRW » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:29 pm

I meant the land underneath the viaduct bounded by Sturt and Main South Roads appears to be laid out for carparking in one or two of the maps.

In terms of the 'health care carpark' on Service Road, it's my hope that one day the bus interchange can be relocated to this position. It can be arranged as a land swap if car parking remains a future concern - ie, the current interchange can be built on for carparking or further medical facilities after the Service Road site becomes the new interchange. An interchange on Service Road, in addition to benefiting from obvious proximity to the railway station, is a more direct route between Flinders and University drives anyway (gradient notwithstanding).
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