News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3916 Post by Eurostar » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:43 am

::
TorrensSA wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:36 pm
If you were going to build a train line to Reynella / Morphett Vale etc, wouldn't it be cheaper to use the old rail corridor from Hallett Cove? It seems really expensive and almost pointless to build a brand new line. The line to Hackham via Hallett Cove would be 35km to ARS, only 3km longer than a direct route.
I'd rather see the Seaford Line extended to Aldinga and a new branch line from Elizabeth to Craigmore via Elizabeth Park and alongside Adams Road with stations at Fremont Park, Craigmore South, Craigmore

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3917 Post by Eurostar » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:55 am

Proposed branch line to Craigmore
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3918 Post by Aidan » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:17 pm

Why would you want to build a branch line to a low density residential area that already has good bus links to Elizabeth and Smithfield stations?
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3919 Post by mattwinter » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:04 pm

On the Flinders link upgrade... I thought part of the point of where they're planning to put the station is that they want to do some new development near the FMC carpark and this will add value to the project. Honestly the Tonsley line is not used much at the moment and adding this extension will make it much more viable, so I hope it happens soon, whatever exact route it takes. I don't buy the arguments about future extensions, I just don't see the line being extended any further in the next 50 years. The government isn't about to find the money to do lots of extending to the Adelaide network, and an extension in a hilly area to a residential population that has other train lines not too far away isn't going to be high up the list.

Also I sympathise with those with accessability issues, but train services shouldn't have stations every 500 metres. It's mass transit, not local door to door transport.... Hopefully if they rebuild Clovelly Park station one day they can move it slightly South, but other than that I don't think there's a need to keep Tonsley station if they're building a new one at Flinders.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3920 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:09 pm

mattwinter wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:04 pm
Also I sympathise with those with accessability issues, but train services shouldn't have stations every 500 metres. It's mass transit, not local door to door transport.... Hopefully if they rebuild Clovelly Park station one day they can move it slightly South, but other than that I don't think there's a need to keep Tonsley station if they're building a new one at Flinders.
Accessibility is not the issue, even if that's what they claim. I can't think of a disability that allows someone to walk 100 m to the train station, but not 400 m. People who can't get to the train station already use paratransit. Moving the station won't change this.

Some people will find the station too far compared to their other options (eg driving or bus), but it's not because of accessibility issues.

If anything, new stations have easier access than old ones.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3921 Post by PeFe » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:22 pm

Does anyone know of the future planning for the 3000 series rail cars?

Will they be converted to electric operation?

Or will they be run as diesels until they just die, and the government is forced to consider replacements?

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3922 Post by PD2/20 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:01 am

PeFe wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:22 pm
Does anyone know of the future planning for the 3000 series rail cars?

Will they be converted to electric operation?

Or will they be run as diesels until they just die, and the government is forced to consider replacements?
Given that they have just been re-engined and mechanically refurbished, I would say that that electric conversion is now extremely unlikely.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3923 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:37 pm

Why do we bother with different stopping patterns on the Gawler line? In my opinion, all trains should be all stops, including North Adelaide. Let's see why.

All stops trains, including North Adelaide, take 56 minutes to travel from Gawler to Adelaide. During the day, most trains follow one of two stopping patterns. Pattern A trains will stop at half of the small stations, pattern B will stop at the other half. Travel times from Gawler to Adelaide are:
Pattern A: 52 minutes
Pattern B: 50 minutes

At 7:51 on Weekdays, there is a non-stop train from Adelaide to Salisbury. It takes 21 minutes. Compare to all-stops at 29 minutes. This a larger saving, but there are other big stations in between that this train skips.

My point is that there is not much time saving with skipping small stations. For people at the small stations, during the day, their frequency gets cut to once every half an hour. At the big stations, the frequency is once every 15 minutes.

So the average wait is 15 minutes at the small stations and 7.5 minutes at the big stations. Average journey time from Gawler to Adelaide during the day is:
(Pattern A + Pattern B)/2 + Average wait
(52 + 50)/2 + 7.5 = 58.5 minutes

But for say, Ovingham to Adelaide during the day is:
Pattern A + Average wait
6 + 15 = 21 minutes

If we make all trains all stops, the average journey time from Gawler to Adelaide during the day will be:
All stops + Average wait
56 + 7.5 = 63.5 minutes

But for say, Ovingham to Adelaide during the day will be:
All stops + Average wait
6 + 7.5 = 13.5 minutes

So average journey times increase slightly for Gawler, less for the other big stations. However, those passengers now have the option of getting off at more stations and the average journey time for people at the small stations is much faster. Furthermore, making all trains all stops reduced confusion with passengers.

If we make all trains all stops and increase frequency to every five minutes, the average journey time from Gawler to Adelaide during the day is back to:
All stops + Average wait
56 + 2.5 = 58.5 minutes

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3924 Post by Waewick » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:53 pm

So do we have limitations to having express trains from Gawler/Noarlunga or at least limited stops?

I would have thought getting travel times well below car would be a great advantage to have?

Also, wouldn't have express/limited stop tie into moving buses to interchange with the trains?

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3925 Post by Eurostar » Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:37 pm

A new station should be set up under the Grand Junction Bridge,

this will allow passengers to travel between Port Adelaide and the northern suburbs, also the G10 and 235 could be extended to the station.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3926 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:55 pm

Eurostar wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:37 pm
A new station should be set up under the Grand Junction Bridge,

this will allow passengers to travel between Port Adelaide and the northern suburbs, also the G10 and 235 could be extended to the station.
There used to be passenger train services between Dry Creek and Port Adelaide using the Rosewater Loop. Soon, the freight trains will all move onto a new alignment and the whole Dry Creek-Port Adelaide railway will be disused.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3927 Post by Aidan » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:10 am

Eurostar wrote:A new station should be set up under the Grand Junction Bridge,
You think the trains should stop at the location where it would add most to the journey time, even though nobody lives there and relatively few work there?
this will allow passengers to travel between Port Adelaide and the northern suburbs, also the G10 and 235 could be extended to the station.
The 235 runs sufficiently close to other stations on the line for this not to be a significant benefit, and there are already longer, more useful variants of the route.
The G10 could be more usefully extended to Mawson Lakes.

A much better way to link Port Adelaide with the northern suburbs would be to create a new bus route from Port Adelaide to Mawson Lakes via Wingfield (which is a major employment area that our bus system currently ignores).
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3928 Post by Eurostar » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:47 pm

Aidan wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:10 am
Eurostar wrote:A new station should be set up under the Grand Junction Bridge,
You think the trains should stop at the location where it would add most to the journey time, even though nobody lives there and relatively few work there?
this will allow passengers to travel between Port Adelaide and the northern suburbs, also the G10 and 235 could be extended to the station.
The 235 runs sufficiently close to other stations on the line for this not to be a significant benefit, and there are already longer, more useful variants of the route.
The G10 could be more usefully extended to Mawson Lakes.

A much better way to link Port Adelaide with the northern suburbs would be to create a new bus route from Port Adelaide to Mawson Lakes via Wingfield (which is a major employment area that our bus system currently ignores).
Yes I do think trains should stop there. It'll offer alternative to driving.

There are existing bus services that run along Grand Junction Road.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3929 Post by PeFe » Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:26 pm

Since we're throwing out ideas for the Gawler train line how about this one.......close all the stations between the city and Dry Creek and make the train
line an "express" line to Gawler Central stopping all stations.

Stations along this section would be culled also, there are at least 6 candidates I can think of....Greenfields, Parafield Gardens, Chidda, Womma, Tambelin and Gawler Oval.

The section between the city and Dry Creek would be serviced by buses.....extend 235 and G10 to Mawson Lakes. Timetable appropriate connections.

The reamaining stations on the northern section of the train line would be rebuilt and re-purposed......bus interchanges where needed and medium density development encouraged within a 10 minute walk of each station.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3930 Post by PeFe » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:17 pm

And Nurlutta can go as well......

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