News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[monotonehell]

Sidenote to all of this, once the rail electrification is complete. I think we as a state need to start talking about extending the Seaford line further south, Belair line to Mount Barker (and perhaps later on to Murray Bridge) and reopening the Northfield line and extending it to Golden Grove/Tea Tree Gully.

Where could an extension go after Briens Road (where Northfield station used to be)? Isn't the terrain behind Yatala all hills and quarry? Then it's all suburbs beyond that.
For all you anoraks out there...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6AQoxvRZl4

[Goodsy]

Sidenote to all of this, once the rail electrification is complete. I think we as a state need to start talking about extending the Seaford line further south, Belair line to Mount Barker (and perhaps later on to Murray Bridge) and reopening the Northfield line and extending it to Golden Grove/Tea Tree Gully.

Northfield would be hard, considering they built the train yard ontop of where it joined the gawler line. maybe a new line could be built along Montague road

[Torrens_5022]

Why do people think a Mt Barker railway line is a good option, it's close to 60km from Adelaide Station which is 25 to 30km longer then using the freeway / glen osmond rd.
The trip to Belair takes about 40min on the train, an express bus from Mt Barker takes as little as 45min.
Northfield line is pointless the O'Bahn would cover that area, the train would have to follow the dry creek gorge and end somewhere near Valley View plus it would take away frequencies from the Gawler line which will need more services as density along the line increases.

[ChillyPhilly]

Sidenote to all of this, once the rail electrification is complete. I think we as a state need to start talking about extending the Seaford line further south, Belair line to Mount Barker (and perhaps later on to Murray Bridge) and reopening the Northfield line and extending it to Golden Grove/Tea Tree Gully.

Convert the O-Bahn.

[Patrick_27]

Sidenote to all of this, once the rail electrification is complete. I think we as a state need to start talking about extending the Seaford line further south, Belair line to Mount Barker (and perhaps later on to Murray Bridge) and reopening the Northfield line and extending it to Golden Grove/Tea Tree Gully.

Convert the O-Bahn.

Yeah, but how much more is that going to cost? Tunnelling underneath the parklands, etc. The Northfield line corridor is still there and would be much more cost effective.

[Patrick_27]

Why do people think a Mt Barker railway line is a good option, it's close to 60km from Adelaide Station which is 25 to 30km longer then using the freeway / glen osmond rd.
The trip to Belair takes about 40min on the train, an express bus from Mt Barker takes as little as 45min.
Northfield line is pointless the O'Bahn would cover that area, the train would have to follow the dry creek gorge and end somewhere near Valley View plus it would take away frequencies from the Gawler line which will need more services as density along the line increases.

Because buses have shown time and time again their inability to deliver a reliable service, it also takes pressure off the SE Freeway as Mt. Barker continues to grow. Hypothetically speaking, electrify the Belair line and the speed of that line will increase significantly.

Similar applies to Northfield. The other alternative, is convert the O'Bahn to expressway with designated bus-lanes. Which would ease private vehicle traffic on lower and upper NE Road/s, maintain buses along that corridor and allow for more bus services along both lower/upper NE Road/s.

Living along this corridor, I see first hand just how much of a pain in the arse buses and cars go together,I can't help but feel another private vehicle or rail corridor would change this.

[Waewick]

would a train line to magill/norwood be better than a tram?

[rubberman]

would a train line to magill/norwood be better than a tram?

A Metro would be nice.

But Australian construction costs are so high for rail infrastructure, that unless Australian Governments stop the rail construction cartels, there's not much hope.

[Goodsy]

would a train line to magill/norwood be better than a tram?

that unless Australian Governments stop the rail construction cartels, there's not much hope.

want to elaborate on that part?

[ChillyPhilly]

Sidenote to all of this, once the rail electrification is complete. I think we as a state need to start talking about extending the Seaford line further south, Belair line to Mount Barker (and perhaps later on to Murray Bridge) and reopening the Northfield line and extending it to Golden Grove/Tea Tree Gully.

Convert the O-Bahn.

Yeah, but how much more is that going to cost? Tunnelling underneath the parklands, etc. The Northfield line corridor is still there and would be much more cost effective.

Where do you spur the hypothetical new Northfield line from, though? The Dry Creek railyards are located where it began.

Also I'm not sure how viable it is to do so, given terrain north and east of Yatala. How could it be built without significant earthworks? Where can stations be located; not just in terms of terrain, but of best residential and employment catchment possible?

[monotonehell]

Where do you spur the hypothetical new Northfield line from, though? The Dry Creek railyards are located where it began.

Also I'm not sure how viable it is to do so, given terrain north and east of Yatala. How could it be built without significant earthworks? Where can stations be located; not just in terms of terrain, but of best residential and employment catchment possible?

Rearranging the southern end of the new Dry Creek Rail Yards would be easy compared to, first the engineering involved to get over the Yatala Quarry site, and second to cut a swath through the houses from Yatala eastward. You'd have to do something like repurpose Wright Road all the way through (not going to happen).

[rubberman]

would a train line to magill/norwood be better than a tram?

that unless Australian Governments stop the rail construction cartels, there's not much hope.

want to elaborate on that part?

First, Australian urban rail projects are fiendishly more expensive than comparable projects elsewhere. For example, Ulm in Germany is putting in a new tramway 10 km for $400m, ie $40m per km including trams. Sydney, $1.6Bn for 12 km, ie $130m per km. This is echoed in Canberra, roughly $75m per km. Germany is hardly a low age country, so why?

The obvious answer is that if you look at major tram projects, there is almost no purchaser (government ) expertise, only a small number of suppliers able to undertake the scope of the work, and those suppliers also have the technical knowledge. So, economics 101 tells us that ignorant customers going against powerful knowlegeable suppliers will be done over, and badly. The figures above support this.

Compare this to roads, where there are many many road builders who do jobs for councils, state and federal governments, and where some expertise remains in the customers' hands. Much more reasonable prices.

So, while Tony Abbott got stick for not funding urban rail, it was either that or have taxpayers done over by a small number of suppliers. Now maybe he should have been more proactive, but there was method in his madness.

[monotonehell]

So, while Tony Abbott got stick for not funding urban rail, it was either that or have taxpayers done over by a small number of suppliers. Now maybe he should have been more proactive, but there was madness in his method.

Fixed that for you.

It's true. Years of underfunding, and outsourcing have seen a lot of knowledge lost. This isn't particular to rail - it has happened in government and private sector alike. There's several corporations who have assets that they have no idea how to maintain. They pay through the nose to bring the expertise in when it all falls over.

[claybro]

And yet trams and trains are still built in Melbourne are they not? Their extensive city wide system altered and extended and maintained at will? So why do one off projects like Sydney, Gold Coast and Adelaide all insist on getting in overseas expertise, when it all exists just up the highway in Melbourne?

[rhino]

Because they're Victorian.


Just for the record, that was a tongue-in-cheek reply