News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[PeFe]

Why rebuild a functioning rapid rail line? Because it has to be rebuilt anyway, within 20 years

Who says? what government report can you quote? It has been virtually untouched for 50 years......it could be another 50 until electrification.

and it is not rapid

To quote Adelaide Metro timetables.. Train : 17 minutes Port Adelaide to Adelaide Station........Bus 150, 33 minutes Port Adelaide Interchange to Currie St..........Glenlg Tram : 40 minutes Mosley Square to Adelaide station

As far as access to the CBD, as a start why cant a light rail use the existing parklands line into Adelaide station?

Totally sparate tram tracks from train tracks???....... or tram/train???? What exactly do you mean? And how will it join the pre-existing tram system? (And dont say using the subway alignment between the new buidlings on North Terrace!)

upgrade to the Seaford line has not dramatically increased rail patronage, or dramatically sped up travel time-

I believe patronage has increased on the Seaford line since electrification (and I dont just mean the line re-opening which gave it a 78% boost from the previous year)
Light rail wont make the journeys from the north western suburbs any faster than heavy rail, in fact the people of the Le fevre peninsula would find light rail slower..........that what the DPTI report said.....if I could still find a link to it I would happily post it so other people on this forum could read it for themselves.

upgrading the existing Glenelg tram, has made it now the most patronised mode of transport

No its not.....the O-Bahn corridor carries the most passengers per day but that is 20 different routes (and the corridor works because it mimmicks heavy rail)
The Gawler train line carries the most passengers per day across any single bus train or tram service. (Looked for article to post to confirm this but very hard to come by)

[1NEEDS2POST]

If they want to cut costs, rather than deleting Grange services, just terminate them at Woodville. Grange can still receive the same number of services, but it needs fewer railcars to cover the shorter route.

If nothing changes, we will soon have four routes on the Outer Harbor line; Grange, Port Dock, Osborne and Outer Harbor.

Perhaps the long-term plan is to essentially replace the Grange services with the Port Dock services, keeping the overall frequency of trains on the line the same?

I hope they replace Osborne services with Port Dock too.

[Eurostar]

close the Grange line corridor , use corridor between current Port Road level crossing and current Todville Street level crossing for a bidirectional bus lane with b light allowing 157x buses to skip ahead of traffic.

[I Follow PAFC]

Outer Harbor to light rail

[Goodsy]

Here's the solution
Green is tram line, Reddish is train

[Norman]

If they want to cut costs, rather than deleting Grange services, just terminate them at Woodville. Grange can still receive the same number of services, but it needs fewer railcars to cover the shorter route.

If nothing changes, we will soon have four routes on the Outer Harbor line; Grange, Port Dock, Osborne and Outer Harbor.

Perhaps the long-term plan is to essentially replace the Grange services with the Port Dock services, keeping the overall frequency of trains on the line the same?

I hope they replace Osborne services with Port Dock too.

The actual quote on the budget website is:

This measure will seek to improve the efficiency of the public transport network through reviewing duplicated or low patronised services across the bus and rail network, identifying opportunities to optimise timetables and leveraging bus contractors’ expertise to identify customer improvements to maximise public transport outcomes for the community.

This could also mean more feeder buses and fewer bus services that duplicate existing train services.

We'll just have to wait and see what it really means.

[PeFe]

Here's the solution
Green is tram line, Reddish is train

Duplicate services down Port Road and the Outer Harbor train line......never gonna happen.

And you forgot West Lakes for your tram line.........big shopping centre and soon to have thousands of new residents !!

Whereas the Grange tram line should really continue down to Henley Square!

[Ho Really]

Here's the solution
Green is tram line, Reddish is train

No it's not the entire solution. There's no need to waste money on a tram up Port Road. You already have the Outer Harbor line. Use feeder buses or trams to the stations already on the Outer Harbor line. Keep the Outer Harbor line heavy rail and reinstate the Rosewater loop so trains can run from Outer Harbor to Gawler and into the Barossa. The Wine Train should be reinstated and used for tours every summer during the cruise season.

You can still have your trams running a loop in Port Adelaide to Semaphore and the Port Dock or to a new station near or under the Grand Junction Road bridge that can be a hub for trams to train (for trains to the Barossa).

The heavy rail line to Outer Harbor should also have express trains on cruise ships days with stops at Glanville (interchange with tram) and Adelaide Station.

The Grange line is the one that is not required as heavy rail (like in your proposal). Turn that into a tram service from Grange to Woodlville Station and across to Arndale Shopping Centre. A spur line can be added to the QEH as one to West Lakes. Eliminate the section running through the Royal Adelaide Golf Course detouring either down Trimmer Parade and Frederick Road or Tapleys Hill and Grange Roads to Grange/Henley Beach.

Cheers

[Goodsy]

No it's not the entire solution. There's no need to waste money on a tram up Port Road. You already have the Outer Harbor line. Use feeder buses or trams to the stations already on the Outer Harbor line. Keep the Outer Harbor line heavy rail and reinstate the Rosewater loop so trains can run from Outer Harbor to Gawler and into the Barossa. The Wine Train should be reinstated and used for tours every summer during the cruise season.

You can still have your trams running a loop in Port Adelaide to Semaphore and the Port Dock or to a new station near or under the Grand Junction Road bridge that can be a hub for trams to train (for trains to the Barossa).

The heavy rail line to Outer Harbor should also have express trains on cruise ships days with stops at Glanville (interchange with tram) and Adelaide Station.

The Grange line is the one that is not required as heavy rail (like in your proposal). Turn that into a tram service from Grange to Woodlville Station and across to Arndale Shopping Centre. A spur line can be added to the QEH as one to West Lakes. Eliminate the section running through the Royal Adelaide Golf Course detouring either down Trimmer Parade and Frederick Road or Tapleys Hill and Grange Roads to Grange/Henley Beach.

Cheers

I disagree. The point of a tram line is to service the Port and Port Road itself, not as a commuter service funneling people into Adelaide Railway station like the railway line. Connecting it to the already existing tram line is just a bonus, and will give alternative transport options to those who would use it to get into the city

[rubberman]

Why rebuild a functioning rapid rail line? Because it has to be rebuilt anyway, within 20 years

Who says? what government report can you quote? It has been virtually untouched for 50 years......it could be another 50 until electrification.

and it is not rapid

To quote Adelaide Metro timetables.. Train : 17 minutes Port Adelaide to Adelaide Station........Bus 150, 33 minutes Port Adelaide Interchange to Currie St..........Glenlg Tram : 40 minutes Mosley Square to Adelaide station

As far as access to the CBD, as a start why cant a light rail use the existing parklands line into Adelaide station?

Totally sparate tram tracks from train tracks???....... or tram/train???? What exactly do you mean? And how will it join the pre-existing tram system? (And dont say using the subway alignment between the new buidlings on North Terrace!)

upgrade to the Seaford line has not dramatically increased rail patronage, or dramatically sped up travel time-

I believe patronage has increased on the Seaford line since electrification (and I dont just mean the line re-opening which gave it a 78% boost from the previous year)
Light rail wont make the journeys from the north western suburbs any faster than heavy rail, in fact the people of the Le fevre peninsula would find light rail slower..........that what the DPTI report said.....if I could still find a link to it I would happily post it so other people on this forum could read it for themselves.

upgrading the existing Glenelg tram, has made it now the most patronised mode of transport

No its not.....the O-Bahn corridor carries the most passengers per day but that is 20 different routes (and the corridor works because it mimmicks heavy rail)
The Gawler train line carries the most passengers per day across any single bus train or tram service. (Looked for article to post to confirm this but very hard to come by)

The comparison between rail in its own corridor to those other modes is invalid. The tram and bus figures include a lot of street running. A valid comparison might be running times for a well run tram system in its own reservation, vs trains, or the O-bahn.

I'd also point out that one of my persistent grumbles is that the Citadis are slow unless they are on concrete track to keep them stable. Part of the reason for the slowness of the service on open ballast track areas is that the Citadis don't handle it well. That's also the case in Melbourne. Go somewhere like Poznań and see what they do with the right trams, then compare those times.

Putting up comparisons of apples and oranges won't convince anyone.

[claybro]

Who says? what government report can you quote? It has been virtually untouched for 50 years......it could be another 50 until electrification.

The 3000 series will not last another 50 years and probably barely 20. Assuming they would not replace diesel with diesel, it will require a complete upgrade to accommodate electrification

.

To quote Adelaide Metro timetables.. Train : 17 minutes Port Adelaide to Adelaide Station........Bus 150, 33 minutes Port Adelaide Interchange to Currie St..........Glenlg Tram : 40 minutes Mosley Square to Adelaide station

Port Adelaide to Adelaide station does not include travel THROUGH the CBD on street running. A light rail could cover the same route Port Adelaide to Adelaide station using the parklands line in the same time as the current service.

Totally sparate tram tracks from train tracks???....... or tram/train???? What exactly do you mean? And how will it join the pre-existing tram system? (And dont say using the subway alignment between the new buidlings on North Terrace!)

The light rail would travel on the parklands line on the existing alignment REPLACING the heavy rail. It would terminate at Adelaide station just like the current train, or any electrified heavy rail upgrade would do....no different...same travel time, less cost to construct, multiple destinations at the other end.

Light rail wont make the journeys from the north western suburbs any faster than heavy rail, in fact the people of the Le fevre peninsula would find light rail slower..........that what the DPTI report said.....if I could still find a link to it I would happily post it so other people on this forum could read it for themselves.

Nor will electrifying and upgrade of the existing line make it fast enough to warrant the loss of connection to multiple other destinations over light rail

I believe patronage has increased on the Seaford line since electrification (and I dont just mean the line re-opening which gave it a 78% boost from the previous year)

create

Has it? I would be curious to see the figures, and not including AFL days. Just Monday to Friday commuters.

No its not.....the O-Bahn corridor carries the most passengers per day but that is 20 different routes (and the corridor works because it mimmicks heavy rail)
The Gawler train line carries the most passengers per day across any single bus train or tram service. (Looked for article to post to confirm this but very hard to come by)

In fact the Obahn would be most like a Northwest light rail because it serves multiple destinations from the main line. It is most definitely not like heavy rail.

[mattwinter]

There was some talk a year or so ago about a Light rail following the OH line into the city as far as War Memorial Drive, then going along War Memorial Drive past Adelaide Oval and south down King William Road right? That would be a fairly fast route.

[claybro]

There was some talk a year or so ago about a Light rail following the OH line into the city as far as War Memorial Drive, then going along War Memorial Drive past Adelaide Oval and south down King William Road right? That would be a fairly fast route.

Really Matt a light rail can approach the CBD from any number of routes. However, as the heavy rail fans seek to compare heavy and light rail travel times, the entry to CBD using the existing alignment to the rail station is the only way of creating a DIRECT comparison in travel time. Also the simplest route, as it is just changing the exact existing route to light rail, but with the added benefit of servicing multiple destinations in the Northwest off the main line, for little if any loss of travel time over the current service. Once in the Adelaide, the light rail passengers can change to other services or walk, just like every other heavy rail passenger does, as a CBD loop will probably not be completed for many years yet.

[rev]

Here's another idea....Leave the OH line as it is instead of converting to trams

Convert the Grange spur line to a tram line, sink it below Port Road to eliminate that crossing, and expand that tram line to run down Military Road to Henley Beach, and a spur to West Lakes.
Buy up some of the property near the Woodville Train Station, move the nearby bus stops next to the station, and create a multi mode interchange. Tram stop, train station, bus stop, and car park.

Build a tram loop/lines around Port Adelaide, on both sides of the water front, and spur off down to Semaphore. Again, with an multi mode interchange at the Port Dock station to be.

[ml69]

Why rebuild a functioning rapid rail line? Because it has to be rebuilt anyway, within 20 years, and it is not rapid, and wont really be even when electrified. I doubt $160Mil would even come close for heavy rail. And the federal government will want to fund some sort of rail in Adelaide soon.-They are screaming to fund metro rail projects. So, as a start, since we would be virtually ripping out the existing system to replace it with something that is pretty much the same, a beginning would be replacing the main corridor with light rail, with the eventual aim of connecting the other areas.
As far as access to the CBD, as a start why cant a light rail use the existing parklands line into Adelaide station?
Also, as has shown, upgrade to the Seaford line has not dramatically increased rail patronage, or dramatically sped up travel time- and very few stations were seriously upgraded, however, upgrading the existing Glenelg tram, has made it now the most patronised mode of transport. It is popular, way more than the trains, even without large scale urbanisation along its corridor so far. This would be repeated with OH.

Let's get the facts correct about the Glenelg tram being the most popular form of public transport in Adelaide, as the headline passenger figures are completely misleading. The 9.2M passengers includes all the free rides between the Entertainment Centre and South Tce, and the Brighton Rd to Moseley Square section at Glenelg. The number of "paying" commuters is a much smaller subset of the 9.2M passengers.

My guess is that the true number of paying commuters on the Glenelg tram wouldn't be far different to the Outer Harbor rail line. If someone has the actual annual passenger numbers, it would be great if you could provide this to verify.