News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

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Honey of a City
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3886 Post by Honey of a City » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:29 pm

I asked the PTPA a few weeks back if they’d provide an update on how the ‘design stage’ was progressing but no response and no update on their site. Considering the local interest in this project it’s pretty discourteous and very unlikely to be completed by Q1 2019. (March 31) when there is no sign of any works or station construction having even commenced. Starfish are having an open day tomorrow for the Dock One development so maybe they’ll have some inside info.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3887 Post by EBG » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:29 pm

24 Jun 2017 Port dock rail line announced by Stephen Mulligan labour transport minister.
Nov 2017 The PTPA has been selected to deliver the design and construction of the Port Dock Railway Line & Station.
The fact is they have not even bothered to up date their web site since 6 Nov 2017.

Project brief 1 K of single track railway, one single sided platform . one tram type platform shelter associated points and signalling. I repeat how long doe it take to build this.

Is DPTI - Department of Planning, Transport ...incapable of handling more than 1 project at a time?



See also

Port Adelaide to get new train station served by 1km rail spur - ABC ...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-24/ ... ../8648778

Jun 23, 2017 - Work is to start next year on a new rail line into the heart of Port Adelaide with a train station to be built in Baker Street, close to the Dock One ...

Port Dock Railway Line - DPTI - Department of Planning, Transport ...

https://www.infrastructure.sa.gov.au/pu ... ilway_line

The PTPA has been selected to deliver the design and construction of the Port Dock Railway Line & Station. The PTPA brings McConnell Dowell, Arup and Mott .

Latest News and Publications
Port Dock Railway Line Project - Early Investigation Works, Monday 6 November 2017

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3888 Post by claybro » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:34 pm

EBG wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:29 pm
24 Jun 2017 Port dock rail line announced by Stephen Mulligan labour transport minister.
Nov 2017 The PTPA has been selected to deliver the design and construction of the Port Dock Railway Line & Station.
The fact is they have not even bothered to up date their web site since 6 Nov 2017.

Project brief 1 K of single track railway, one single sided platform . one tram type platform shelter associated points and signalling. I repeat how long doe it take to build this.

Is DPTI - Department of Planning, Transport ...incapable of handling more than 1 project at a time?



See also

Port Adelaide to get new train station served by 1km rail spur - ABC ...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-24/ ... ../8648778

Jun 23, 2017 - Work is to start next year on a new rail line into the heart of Port Adelaide with a train station to be built in Baker Street, close to the Dock One ...

Port Dock Railway Line - DPTI - Department of Planning, Transport ...

https://www.infrastructure.sa.gov.au/pu ... ilway_line

The PTPA has been selected to deliver the design and construction of the Port Dock Railway Line & Station. The PTPA brings McConnell Dowell, Arup and Mott .

Latest News and Publications
Port Dock Railway Line Project - Early Investigation Works, Monday 6 November 2017
Perhaps the current government is hoping it quietly goes away. :?

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3889 Post by Norman » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:27 am

The is a community open day next weekend, the project is not dead.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3890 Post by Joelmark » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:01 am

Thanks Norman. Living abroad it can be frustrating trying to find out information about these projects- googling finds very little about timelines and start dates. The Flinders link project I'm pretty sure was first promised in 2014 and yet here we are heading towards mid 2019 and there's still no sign of a start date of the the proper construction work. And this is also a very short kilometre spur or so. The Gawler Electrification work was supposed to start in the last quarter of 2018 - it's almost the end of the first quarter of 2019 and besides undergrounding some cables and trimming some trees there's still no word of heavy construction starting.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3891 Post by Norman » Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:00 pm

Regarding Flinders Link, some of the pylons have started construction. The project is also awaiting final approval by SCAP (the assessment panel). It is still showing as Deferred.

Regarding the Gawler Line electrification, I think major construction is imminent as I have seen stations with markings indicating where the masts will be installed.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3892 Post by EBG » Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:14 pm

Extending the train from Tonsley Park to Flinders university was first proposed in 1970.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3893 Post by Aidan » Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:51 pm

Joelmark wrote:The Flinders link project I'm pretty sure was first promised in 2014 and yet here we are heading towards mid 2019 and there's still no sign of a start date of the the proper construction work.
When the Flinders Link plans were referred to the State Commission Assessment Panel, I was one of four people who lodged representations against it, and one of two who made a verbal presentation to the SCAP. I focussed mainly on the transport and land use implications, and suggested a better alternative (straightening the Tonsley Line and extending it above Flinders Drive to a station by the FMC main entrance and bus interchange) and a cheaper alternative: making the existing station more visible and improving its bus links to Flinders. In my presentation I also highlighted the shortage and inaccuracy of the information DPTI provided.

The other presentation, focussing on accessibility issues and the impact on Tonsley residents, was made by Jodie Pearce.

The initial result of these presentations was that the SCAP decided to defer its decision pending more information from DPTI. A week and a half ago, after DPTI had supplied more information, SCAP reconsidered it. This time there was no opportunity for Jodie and myself to present, though we'd both made written responses (mine highlighted the flaws in DPTI's options selection process; DPTI didn't respond to it). This time SCAP did make a decision as to what to recommend to the minister, but they kept it secret. They'll tell me what it is when the minister makes the decision.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3894 Post by claybro » Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:47 pm

Well Aidan I must say, it's pretty disappointing that an option was even presented to the government recommending a cheaper option of upgrading Tonsley and providing better bus links to Flinders. Our public transport planners show absolutely no willingness or expertise in co ordinating bus and train services as it is, and Adelaide is already awash with buses doing what trains should do, and trains stopping just short of where people actually need to go. We don't need another near enough is good enough solution. I do like your option 1 though.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3895 Post by SBD » Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:13 pm

EBG wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:14 pm
Extending the train from Tonsley Park to Flinders university was first proposed in 1970.
Gawler railway electification was mooted in the late 1940s/early 1950s as part of the project to electrify the Port Adelaide, Belair, Dry Creek and Marino lines. RAILWAY ELECTRIFICATION REPORT (1950, August 17). Chronicle (Adelaide, SA : 1895 - 1954), p. 8. There seems to have also been thoughts in that direction prior to World War I around the same time as the Adelaide tram lines and Melbourne railways were electrified.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3896 Post by OlympusAnt » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:16 pm

Rail has been neglected in this state for a long time.

In a way, it comes back to the gauge issue that resulted from frankly pathetic communication between the colonies in the 1860's. If we'd just built the 4 ft 8 1⁄2 like NSW did, there wouldn't be this patchy and broken network.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3897 Post by Aidan » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:30 pm

OlympusAnt, are you aware of the history?

SA did recognise the advantage of gauge commonality, and met with Victoria and NSW to decide which gauge to select.
NSW had an Irish chief engineer who insisted on the 5ft 3 gauge which was standard in Ireland. So SA ordered broad gauge equipment. Victoria soon followed. Then NSW replaced their Irish chief engineer with a Scottish one who insisted on switching to standard gauge.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3898 Post by Aidan » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:33 am

claybro,
I make no apologies for presenting the cheaper option. DPTI's Flinders Link plan is catastrophic for Adelaide's long term development, as it would make it very difficult to extend the line further (and if they did somehow manage it, the route would be very slow and expensive).

However it does have the short term advantage of being cheaper than my preferred option. So presenting a cheaper still option was essential lest they selected DPTI's plan on cost grounds.

Linking an upgraded Tonsley station with Flinders Uni (with an upgraded Flinders Loop bus, or better still by diverting the G10 via Ring Road) would provide much of the short term benefit of DPTI's plan at a small fraction of the cost. But most importantly, it would still enable a more comprehensive solution in the future.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3899 Post by NTRabbit » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:02 am

Aidan wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:33 am
claybro,
I make no apologies for presenting the cheaper option. DPTI's Flinders Link plan is catastrophic for Adelaide's long term development, as it would make it very difficult to extend the line further (and if they did somehow manage it, the route would be very slow and expensive).

However it does have the short term advantage of being cheaper than my preferred option. So presenting a cheaper still option was essential lest they selected DPTI's plan on cost grounds.

Linking an upgraded Tonsley station with Flinders Uni (with an upgraded Flinders Loop bus, or better still by diverting the G10 via Ring Road) would provide much of the short term benefit of DPTI's plan at a small fraction of the cost. But most importantly, it would still enable a more comprehensive solution in the future.
Are you talking about extending the Tonsley line up into the Flagstaff-Aberfoyle-Happy Valley-Woodcroft area in the long term future? and if so, can I ask what about the current plan makes it difficult to extent? Can the line not swing around and use University Drive or Ring Rd (with a Uni stop)? Aren't they going to need to wind a bit and cut across the gorge on a bridge to handle the steep grade heading up into the hills? Not attacking, I'm just curious as to how it would all work under either idea.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3900 Post by Aidan » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:22 pm

NTRabbit wrote: Are you talking about extending the Tonsley line up into the Flagstaff-Aberfoyle-Happy Valley-Woodcroft area in the long term future?
Not quite. Based on a plan posted here by Fabricator a few years back, it would have a station by the Flagstaff Hill roundabout, but then run west of the Happy Valley Reservoir. Possible station near South/Chandlers junction. Definite station near Lander Road (which would be extended under South Road). Possible station near northern end of OSR; definite station by bus interchange at southern end. Then to Hackham via route of old Willunga line.

A branch to Aberfoyle Park is also a long term possibility.

Interestingly, DPTI's document also showed they had considered a second option for an extension to Hackham (from a Flinders Drive alignment) further east. Only the northern end is shown, so I can do no more than speculate about the rest of the alignment, but imagine it would run through Aberfoyle Park, Happy Valley and the eastern part of Woodcroft before ending at the eastern end of Doctors Road.
and if so, can I ask what about the current plan makes it difficult to extent?
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Can the line not swing around and use University Drive or Ring Rd (with a Uni stop)? Aren't they going to need to wind a bit and cut across the gorge on a bridge to handle the steep grade heading up into the hills? Not attacking, I'm just curious as to how it would all work under either idea.
It certainly can't use either of those roads. They did consider a way to extend it to a Uni stop in the gully east of Ring Road, but doing so would (by their own reckoning) require 150m radius curves. 200 is the current minimum in Adelaide; aside from any rollingstock modifications needed, tighter curves could only be negotiated at very low speeds.
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