News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3931 Post by Eurostar » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:46 pm

PeFe wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:26 pm
Since we're throwing out ideas for the Gawler train line how about this one.......close all the stations between the city and Dry Creek and make the train
line an "express" line to Gawler Central stopping all stations.

Stations along this section would be culled also, there are at least 6 candidates I can think of....Greenfields, Parafield Gardens, Chidda, Womma, Tambelin and Gawler Oval.

The section between the city and Dry Creek would be serviced by buses.....extend 235 and G10 to Mawson Lakes. Timetable appropriate connections.

The reamaining stations on the northern section of the train line would be rebuilt and re-purposed......bus interchanges where needed and medium density development encouraged within a 10 minute walk of each station.
Redevelop the Dry Creek residential areas and the station, the street by the railway station could be a bus interchange for 235 and G10. Maybe rename it as Burford or Churchill. Upgrade Churchill Road North whilst you are at it.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3932 Post by claybro » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:16 pm

PeFe wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:26 pm
Since we're throwing out ideas for the Gawler train line how about this one.......close all the stations between the city and Dry Creek and make the train
line an "express" line to Gawler Central stopping all stations.

Stations along this section would be culled also, there are at least 6 candidates I can think of....Greenfields, Parafield Gardens, Chidda, Womma, Tambelin and Gawler Oval.

The section between the city and Dry Creek would be serviced by buses.....extend 235 and G10 to Mawson Lakes. Timetable appropriate connections.

The reamaining stations on the northern section of the train line would be rebuilt and re-purposed......bus interchanges where needed and medium density development encouraged within a 10 minute walk of each station.
Agree with all this, but I think one major station and interchange between Dry Creek and the city is warranted.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3933 Post by SBD » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:16 pm

PeFe wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:26 pm
Since we're throwing out ideas for the Gawler train line how about this one.......close all the stations between the city and Dry Creek and make the train
line an "express" line to Gawler Central stopping all stations.

Stations along this section would be culled also, there are at least 6 candidates I can think of....Greenfields, Parafield Gardens, Chidda, Womma, Tambelin and Gawler Oval.

The section between the city and Dry Creek would be serviced by buses.....extend 235 and G10 to Mawson Lakes. Timetable appropriate connections.

The reamaining stations on the northern section of the train line would be rebuilt and re-purposed......bus interchanges where needed and medium density development encouraged within a 10 minute walk of each station.
I'm intrigued that you keep Broadmeadows and Kudla, but propose to drop Tambelin which is used for access to/from Trinity College.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3934 Post by TorrensSA » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:48 am

You want to remove stations next to Churchill road in Prospect which is currently redeveloping and lots of apartments are going up, the train is there to service everyone not just people who live near the end. Some stations can go like Greenfields, but why remove Womma it provides easy access to the new housing in Eyre and suburbs across Main North Road. the Gawler line already offers a fast service. Just increase the frequency to every 10 min and upgrade the stations, build the city loop and maybe extend the line? Aldinga to Concordia ??? Flinders to Freeling ????

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3935 Post by PeFe » Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:05 pm

TorrensSA wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:48 am
You want to remove stations next to Churchill road in Prospect which is currently redeveloping and lots of apartments are going up, the train is there to service everyone not just people who live near the end.
The new apartments on Churchill Road can be adequately serviced by the bus.....these small 4 story apartment blocks are being built in very low density suburbia, the density of the suburb would never justify a tram, let alone heavy rail (if you were building from scratch)
Some stations can go like Greenfields, but why remove Womma it provides easy access to the new housing in Eyre and suburbs across Main North Road. the Gawler line already offers a fast service. Just increase the frequency to every 10 min and upgrade the stations, build the city loop and maybe extend the line? Aldinga to Concordia ??? Flinders to Freeling ????
The Gawler rail line has far too many stations spaced too closed together....most people would need to make a bus transfer so why not make the trip into the city as fast as possible...keeping every station (even if it is next to the school) just makes the train line like a.....bus service.

I imagine the future Gawler train something like the Paris RER....pick up lots of passengers at major stations in suburbia and the high tail it into the city centre as fast as possible with basically an express service along the last 5kms.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3936 Post by claybro » Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:13 pm

TorrensSA wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:48 am
You want to remove stations next to Churchill road in Prospect which is currently redeveloping and lots of apartments are going up, the train is there to service everyone not just people who live near the end. Some stations can go like Greenfields, but why remove Womma it provides easy access to the new housing in Eyre and suburbs across Main North Road. the Gawler line already offers a fast service. Just increase the frequency to every 10 min and upgrade the stations, build the city loop and maybe extend the line? Aldinga to Concordia ??? Flinders to Freeling ????
The apartments on Churchill road, are adequately served by the bus on Churchill road. Residents of those developments will not walk to stations 500m away, when there is a bus literally at their front door. The sprawling low density suburbs you mention further north are better served by local buses, feeding innto major hubs, and no.. the Gawler service could not be currently described as fast, and increasing the frequency to 10 minutes, while keeping most of the stations, would not speed up journey times, in fact it is a recipe for monumental delays.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3937 Post by TorrensSA » Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:24 pm

It's about 100m from Dudley Park station to Churchill Road, yes the apartments are not huge blocks but people living there have the same right to a train station as someone in Davoren Park does. On the other hand Ovingham may have to go when the road and rail is grade separated. The Seaford line currently operates an all station service every 15 interpeak and there is rarely a delay add the Tonsley line and that's 6 trains an hour, the Seaford and Tonsley lines run 13 services an hour in peak (9 Seaford and 4 Tonsley) delays are rare. Look at Melbourne many lines operate at 10 min frequency and very little delays. The Mernda line is actually pretty slow and the stations can be very close there's something like 13 stations in 10km - crazy close but it operates every 7min in peak, the Gawler line is 1/3 longer and only takes 5min more then the Mernda line (approx 40km / 30km). Also the people who live in the apartments on Churchill will most likely be catching the train north if they are using it, to places like Uni in Mawson Lakes, work in Salisbury or Elizabeth etc, yes there's a bus service at their door, but that only goes to the city. Why do people seem to think it's a good idea to remove a service instead of improving it, they think the Gawler line is slow so lets remove 5 stations, who is using it now? Elizabeth will be a mini CBD in the future, people will commute via train and get on at stations like Dudley Park.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3938 Post by PeFe » Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:47 pm

TorrensSA wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:24 pm
I Why do people seem to think it's a good idea to remove a service instead of improving it, they think the Gawler line is slow so lets remove 5 stations, who is using it now? Elizabeth will be a mini CBD in the future, people will commute via train and get on at stations like Dudley Park.
You are improving the service......probably cutting 10 minutes travel time into the CBD under my proposal, plus no skip-stop trains.......all stops every 15 minutes during business hours and 30 minutes outside that.

Commuters from Dudley Park to Elizabeth ..(99.9% of Adelaidians would choose to drive)...the 2 or 3 who did want to use the train would be inconvenienced, but the number of winners (from the entire line) who receive a much faster service would be in the tens of thousands.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3939 Post by EBG » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:23 pm

We should follow Melbourne and Sydney and Brisbane which have express trains only stopping at a few main stations followed a few minutes later by 'stopping all stations'. some times the stopping all stations don't go to the end of the line but only serve the inner suburban stations.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3940 Post by OlympusAnt » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:26 pm

The issue with that is the level crossing congestion that would result
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3941 Post by claybro » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:48 pm

EBG wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:23 pm
We should follow Melbourne and Sydney and Brisbane which have express trains only stopping at a few main stations followed a few minutes later by 'stopping all stations'. some times the stopping all stations don't go to the end of the line but only serve the inner suburban stations.
Those cities have much great population density. The problem with the Gawler line, is that it traverses large sparsely populated industrial estates, then the suburban areas it enters are low density. Stations located in back suburban streets in the sprawling suburbia are out of sight, perceived as unsafe, and require many millions spent in upgrading of surveillance, ticketing infrastructure and disable access. Those stations serve at best a handful of commuters each train-sometimes none. It is not viable for this to continue if we want a modern attractive and fast service. Given the limited available funds for upgrades, and new rolling stock, it would be far better to identify 6-8 major station sites, in visible locations, able to support bus interchange infrastructure, secure ticketed access platforms, with security surveillance both physical and electronic, and able to have nearby service infrastructure developed-(shops, government services etc). These locations would preferably be on sites that already have existing major infrastructure in place such as Salisbury and Mawson, but new sites could be identified. Local buses should feed into these station precincts, further enabling commercial viability and critical mass.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3942 Post by PeFe » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:59 pm

I would like to know, and compare, the passenger numbers at Ovingham, Dudley Park and Islington stations, compared to Mawson Lakes, Salisbury and Elizabeth. That would be illuminative where resources should be focused.....

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3943 Post by ml69 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:18 pm

claybro wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:48 pm
EBG wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:23 pm
We should follow Melbourne and Sydney and Brisbane which have express trains only stopping at a few main stations followed a few minutes later by 'stopping all stations'. some times the stopping all stations don't go to the end of the line but only serve the inner suburban stations.
Those cities have much great population density. The problem with the Gawler line, is that it traverses large sparsely populated industrial estates, then the suburban areas it enters are low density. Stations located in back suburban streets in the sprawling suburbia are out of sight, perceived as unsafe, and require many millions spent in upgrading of surveillance, ticketing infrastructure and disable access. Those stations serve at best a handful of commuters each train-sometimes none. It is not viable for this to continue if we want a modern attractive and fast service. Given the limited available funds for upgrades, and new rolling stock, it would be far better to identify 6-8 major station sites, in visible locations, able to support bus interchange infrastructure, secure ticketed access platforms, with security surveillance both physical and electronic, and able to have nearby service infrastructure developed-(shops, government services etc). These locations would preferably be on sites that already have existing major infrastructure in place such as Salisbury and Mawson, but new sites could be identified. Local buses should feed into these station precincts, further enabling commercial viability and critical mass.
Sounds logical to me.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3944 Post by PeFe » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:43 am

Flinders extension to cost more and finish mid 2020.
An extension of the Tonsley rail line to Flinders University and Medical Centre is set for completion in the middle of next year, but at a much higher cost than first predicted.

SA Transport Minister Stephan Knoll on Monday announced development approval had been granted for the Flinders Link project, which is a 650m extension of the existing line.

The final plans come in at a cost of $125 million, a blowout from the earlier price of $86 million.

Mr Knoll said the budget had been “revised up” after significant design changes and improvements that include “safety, functional and stakeholder requirements”.

Major works will start in the coming months, with completion expected in mid-2020.

The project is jointly funded by the state and federal governments, and the latest announcement comes in the middle of a national election campaign where SA’s most hotly fought seat will be the marginal electorate of Boothby held by Liberal Nicolle Flint.

Source : Adelaide Now

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3945 Post by mattwinter » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:31 am

Glad it's approved and looks like it will be a pretty quick project... I imagine they'll work on it at the same time as finishing Darlington.

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