News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

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AG
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Re: Oaklands Crossing | $174m

#3976 Post by AG » Mon May 13, 2019 10:12 am

If the Seaford Line is going to squeeze any more services into peak hour, then some compromises or changes are going to be needed to maximise peak hour capacity. At peak frequencies of every 3-4 minutes (or quicker) inbound from Woodlands Park including the Tonsley Line, you are not going to be able to run a mix of express, all station and skip-stop services as the express services will end up stuck behind the slower services.

Longer trains or adding additional express tracks between Oaklands and the city is going to require some significant infrastructure upgrades.

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Re: Oaklands Crossing | $174m

#3977 Post by AndyWelsh » Mon May 13, 2019 10:48 am

AG wrote:If the Seaford Line is going to squeeze any more services into peak hour, then some compromises or changes are going to be needed to maximise peak hour capacity. At peak frequencies of every 3-4 minutes (or quicker) inbound from Woodlands Park including the Tonsley Line, you are not going to be able to run a mix of express, all station and skip-stop services as the express services will end up stuck behind the slower services.

Longer trains or adding additional express tracks between Oaklands and the city is going to require some significant infrastructure upgrades.
Could they not have left some track for passing express trains when they did the new Oaklands? Maybe Brighton could be used again as it has plenty of platform and track flexibility there?


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Re: Oaklands Crossing | $174m

#3978 Post by Eurostar » Mon May 13, 2019 10:59 am

AG wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:12 am
If the Seaford Line is going to squeeze any more services into peak hour, then some compromises or changes are going to be needed to maximise peak hour capacity. At peak frequencies of every 3-4 minutes (or quicker) inbound from Woodlands Park including the Tonsley Line, you are not going to be able to run a mix of express, all station and skip-stop services as the express services will end up stuck behind the slower services.

Longer trains or adding additional express tracks between Oaklands and the city is going to require some significant infrastructure upgrades.
Seaford Trains should be express between City & Woodlands Park 7 days a week and Tonsley Trains should be all stops 7 days a week. Seaford Trains should run at least every 15 minutes 7 days a week (every 30 minutes after 9pm). Tonsley trains should run at least every 15 minutes 7 days a week (every 30 minutes after 9pm).

You could then have bus routes such as 241 and 248 run as feeders between Woodlands Park and Marion Centre outside peak.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3979 Post by mattwinter » Mon May 13, 2019 11:37 am

[Shuz] wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 12:21 pm
They really should make a reservation beyond the line terminus to future proof any rail extension. Any development in the way will just stuff things up.
There's a point where planning for the future can just go too far.... they probably don't see any further extension being on the table for 50 years, so reserving land just makes no sense IMO...

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Re: Oaklands Crossing | $174m

#3980 Post by mattwinter » Mon May 13, 2019 11:38 am

Eurostar wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:59 am
AG wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:12 am
If the Seaford Line is going to squeeze any more services into peak hour, then some compromises or changes are going to be needed to maximise peak hour capacity. At peak frequencies of every 3-4 minutes (or quicker) inbound from Woodlands Park including the Tonsley Line, you are not going to be able to run a mix of express, all station and skip-stop services as the express services will end up stuck behind the slower services.

Longer trains or adding additional express tracks between Oaklands and the city is going to require some significant infrastructure upgrades.
Seaford Trains should be express between City & Woodlands Park 7 days a week and Tonsley Trains should be all stops 7 days a week. Seaford Trains should run at least every 15 minutes 7 days a week (every 30 minutes after 9pm). Tonsley trains should run at least every 15 minutes 7 days a week (every 30 minutes after 9pm).

You could then have bus routes such as 241 and 248 run as feeders between Woodlands Park and Marion Centre outside peak.
Totally agree. Have Tonsely trains follow behind the Seaford train into the city so that anyone who wants to get off at any other stops can transfer at Woodlands without a long wait.

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Re: Oaklands Crossing | $174m

#3981 Post by AndyWelsh » Mon May 13, 2019 1:04 pm

Totally agree too. Not sure why they haven’t done this already?!


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Re: Oaklands Crossing | $174m

#3982 Post by Norman » Mon May 13, 2019 5:20 pm

AndyWelsh wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 1:04 pm
Totally agree too. Not sure why they haven’t done this already?!
Well, they kind of have. The Tonsley Line, running at a 30 minute frequency, allows every second Seaford train to run express between Woodlands Park and Adelaide. This has not rolled out to all Seaford Line services as there is not enough demand. This may change once the Flinders extension is completed.

I agree that the frequency should be increased on weekends, but not necessarily every 15 minutes until 9pm. There is not enough demand on the lines to justify this at the moment. Most trains run close to empty in the reverse peak flows.

The way to challenge this is to increase demand by increasing density of activities and connections around existing stations. This will take time though, so it should not be considered at this point in time.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3983 Post by ChillyPhilly » Thu May 23, 2019 9:58 am

Just for this week, I've been counting passenger numbers on select services along the Gawler line during morning and evening peak periods.

Here are some key thoughts:
- Electrification will make a massive difference by speeding up the service.
- Some stations definitely need to be culled. Kudla is a prime example.
- Some are in urgent need of upgrades and modernisation.
- Gawler station is the biggest surprise. A beautiful station building that is used as a volunteer-run cafe and gift shop.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3984 Post by Eurostar » Thu May 23, 2019 11:18 am

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 9:58 am
Just for this week, I've been counting passenger numbers on select services along the Gawler line during morning and evening peak periods.

Here are some key thoughts:
- Electrification will make a massive difference by speeding up the service.
- Some stations definitely need to be culled. Kudla is a prime example.
- Some are in urgent need of upgrades and modernisation.
- Gawler station is the biggest surprise. A beautiful station building that is used as a volunteer-run cafe and gift shop.
According to when Mike Rann & Co was in State Government, the plan had electrification on all lines (except Belair) done by now. Gawler Electrification should be fast tracked, Outer Harbour Line Electrification should be fast tracked too. Then commit to City Train Loop.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3985 Post by claybro » Thu May 23, 2019 11:31 am

Eurostar wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 11:18 am
According to when Mike Rann & Co was in State Government, the plan had electrification on all lines (except Belair) done by now. Gawler Electrification should be fast tracked, Outer Harbour Line Electrification should be fast tracked too. Then commit to City Train Loop.
Mike and Patrick certainly got the ball rolling with electrification and the tram extension, problem was they had a timeline, but no real cohesive plan to fund it all. There was also no master plan about how the newly electrified lines would integrate into improved urban areas in the suburbs to actually make it all worthwhile. Development in the suburbs has just continued on ad hock and still does with little thought to train connections.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3986 Post by ChillyPhilly » Thu May 23, 2019 12:21 pm

claybro wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 11:31 am
Eurostar wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 11:18 am
According to when Mike Rann & Co was in State Government, the plan had electrification on all lines (except Belair) done by now. Gawler Electrification should be fast tracked, Outer Harbour Line Electrification should be fast tracked too. Then commit to City Train Loop.
Mike and Patrick certainly got the ball rolling with electrification and the tram extension, problem was they had a timeline, but no real cohesive plan to fund it all. There was also no master plan about how the newly electrified lines would integrate into improved urban areas in the suburbs to actually make it all worthwhile. Development in the suburbs has just continued on ad hock and still does with little thought to train connections.
The plan to fund it, like the new RAH, Adelaide Oval and a myriad of other big projects back then, was to come from the benefits of the expansion of Olympic Dam. Unfortunately, this fell through and so a great deal of projects suffered. Gawler electrification was partially funded with the plan subsequently scaled back to only as far as Dry Creek, then to Salisbury. Then Tony Abbott ( :lol: ) cut funding in 2013.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3987 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Thu May 23, 2019 1:51 pm

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 9:58 am
Just for this week, I've been counting passenger numbers on select services along the Gawler line during morning and evening peak periods.

Here are some key thoughts:
- Electrification will make a massive difference by speeding up the service.
- Some stations definitely need to be culled. Kudla is a prime example.
- Some are in urgent need of upgrades and modernisation.
- Gawler station is the biggest surprise. A beautiful station building that is used as a volunteer-run cafe and gift shop.
I think the most cost effective improvements to the stations will be making the pedestrian access easier. Almost every public transport user is a pedestrian at some point. Some of the stations are hidden away in back streets with terrible and confusing footpaths leading up to them. The cost of footpaths is so so so low compared to other improvements.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3988 Post by SRW » Thu May 23, 2019 2:12 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:51 pm
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 9:58 am
Just for this week, I've been counting passenger numbers on select services along the Gawler line during morning and evening peak periods.

Here are some key thoughts:
- Electrification will make a massive difference by speeding up the service.
- Some stations definitely need to be culled. Kudla is a prime example.
- Some are in urgent need of upgrades and modernisation.
- Gawler station is the biggest surprise. A beautiful station building that is used as a volunteer-run cafe and gift shop.
I think the most cost effective improvements to the stations will be making the pedestrian access easier. Almost every public transport user is a pedestrian at some point. Some of the stations are hidden away in back streets with terrible and confusing footpaths leading up to them. The cost of footpaths is so so so low compared to other improvements.
Many would also benefit from additional access points: https://theconversation.com/how-to-incr ... ick-115222
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3989 Post by claybro » Thu May 23, 2019 2:22 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:51 pm
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 9:58 am
Just for this week, I've been counting passenger numbers on select services along the Gawler line during morning and evening peak periods.

Here are some key thoughts:
- Electrification will make a massive difference by speeding up the service.
- Some stations definitely need to be culled. Kudla is a prime example.
- Some are in urgent need of upgrades and modernisation.
- Gawler station is the biggest surprise. A beautiful station building that is used as a volunteer-run cafe and gift shop.
I think the most cost effective improvements to the stations will be making the pedestrian access easier. Almost every public transport user is a pedestrian at some point. Some of the stations are hidden away in back streets with terrible and confusing footpaths leading up to them. The cost of footpaths is so so so low compared to other improvements.
These are precisely the stations that should be closed. People expect more than just tarted up footpaths and a newly painted shelter these days. They expect security ( cameras emergency buttons, lighting). Sheltered areas, and toilets. Disabled access.. This all costs millions. We can't afford to upgrade all the stations, and not enough people use them to make the spend worthwhile.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

#3990 Post by TorrensSA » Thu May 23, 2019 3:44 pm

New "stand behind the white line" messages have been painted on some train stations - via SA Planning, Transport and Infrastructure on Facebook. This clearly shows how dangerous Brighton is there's about 50cm between the white line and a wall. Brighton station is busy and needs a rebuild. Rip down the structures and put a roof over all 4 platforms. They should do it while grade separating Brighton Road, rebuild Brighton and Hove Stations and remove Warradale.

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