PRO: Port Adelaide Tramline | $260m

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Wayno
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Re: #Proposed : Port Adelaide Tram Line

#406 Post by Wayno » Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:15 pm

Norman wrote:
Community consultation on tram extension
September 15, 2008

Local residents, businesses and a range of stakeholders will have their say following conceptual planning on Coast to Coast Light Rail – City West to Adelaide Entertainment Centre.

Transport Minister Patrick Conlon says the project team has been busy gathering technical information necessary ahead of construction.
i think we can expect to see quick progress here. The Govt will want the 1st stage (to the Entertainment Centre) fully operational before the next election!
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Re: #Proposed : Port Adelaide Tram Line

#407 Post by Shuz » Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:08 pm

Norman wrote:
In the meantime initial investigations into the alignment of the extension have indicated a central track offers a number of advantages.

The recently constructed tram corridor from Victoria Square to City West balanced the needs of tram, pedestrian and other road users and successfully minimised the impacts on adjacent properties.

Like the original extension this one will take account of a number of key operational, economic, environmental and social factors.

“We need to be mindful of the existing traffic capacity on Port Road and North Terrace while providing a safe, reliable and efficient tram service,” Mr Conlon said.

“Every effort will be made to minimise impacts to existing utilities, business, the environment and residents along the corridor and to support urban regeneration opportunities.
If they want to minimise impacts, I do not believe a central track will be the best option as it exits out of the city. Where a reservation should be allocated within the Parklands, it should run adjacent Port Road's northbound alignment as it goes through Thebarton. The ease of accessibility for commuters (dis)embarking directly onto the footpath will be greatly advantageous, minimising traffic disruption and increasing safety for all. Once it enters Port Road proper, it should again resume its route into a central alignment utilising the median strip provided for there is a surrounding urban fabric to warrant commuter accessibility into a central location. Traffic sequencing at the intersections of George Street/East Terrace and Port roads and at Park Terrace/Port and Grange roads would operate similarly to the system in place at Greenhill, South Terrace and Brighton roads.

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Re: #Proposed : Port Adelaide Tram Line

#408 Post by Archer » Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:46 pm

Wayno wrote: i think we can expect to see quick progress here. The Govt will want the 1st stage (to the Entertainment Centre) fully operational before the next election!
Indeed, in the last month or so I've seen the following work being done:

1. Survey and soil core sampling work on Port Road by the West Terrace, North Terrace & Port Road Intersection.

2. Survey work around the Port Road, George Street & James Cogdon Drive (East Terrace) Intersection.

3. Survey work on the Rail yards side of North Terrace approaching the West Terrace, Port Road & North Terrace intersection.

4. And Finally this afternoon they were doing soil drilling on Port road in the Centre Median strip on either side of the bridge over the Noarlunga and Belair Rail Lines.

One can only assume this is all part of the pre construction work mentioned above.

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Re: #Proposed : Port Adelaide Tram Line

#409 Post by Norman » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:24 pm

A new document is out calling for public feedback. It also contains some extra information about the City West-Entertainment Centre tram extension.

http://203.147.248.196/alt-host/assets/ ... aoweri.pdf

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Re: #Proposed : Port Adelaide Tram Line

#410 Post by AG » Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:09 pm

I am interested as to whether Port Road will be reduced to two lanes in each direction between West Terrace and Park Terrace as shown in the diagrams of the document, or whether the corridor will be reconfigured to maintain the current 3 lanes in each direction.

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Re: #Proposed : Port Adelaide Tram Line

#411 Post by jk1237 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:27 pm

you wouldnt think they would reduce it to 2 lanes. That Port Rd stretch, according to the DTEI traffic stats, is almost as busy as main south rd (around Flinders - Darlington)

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Re: #Proposed : Port Adelaide Tram Line

#412 Post by Shuz » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:14 am

I believe the traffic volume for that stretch is around 62,000vpd. Main South Road stretch handles about 68,000vpd between the Southern Expressway and Ayliffes Road interesections. Quite busy really - hence why I think it would be better off if the tramline were instated in its own corridor adjacent the road and not within the road.

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Re: #Proposed : Port Adelaide Tram Line

#413 Post by AG » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:38 am

Shuz wrote:I believe the traffic volume for that stretch is around 62,000vpd. Main South Road stretch handles about 68,000vpd between the Southern Expressway and Ayliffes Road interesections. Quite busy really - hence why I think it would be better off if the tramline were instated in its own corridor adjacent the road and not within the road.
Which brings about another question as to whether the existing bridges at the railway lines and over the Torrens River are wide enough to cope with the changes to traffic flow or whether they need to be widened as well.

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Re: #Proposed : Port Adelaide Tram Line

#414 Post by Shuz » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:52 am

I sent in my feedback, summarising everything I have already stated here previously.

Good point made there Wayno - another piece of evidence to support my statement that a western alignment adjacent Port Road is better than a central alignment.

Minimal, if none, disruptions to traffic efficiency would be compromised if the tram corridor were built in its own entirety adjacent Port Road. The existing bridge would be left relatively unscathed, and a new bridge would simply be built to cater for the tram tracks over the train lines. Yes, this would come at a greater cost - but this is an option which maximises the tram and traffic networks efficiency during and after construction - An option in which the best outcome is delivered for all involved.

If I remember correctly, didn't the old tram route to Thebarton utilise its own corridor with a rail bridge?

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Re: #Proposed : Port Adelaide Tram Line

#415 Post by Will409 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:07 pm

Shuz, you are correct, the former Findon line did use it's own alignment along Port Road after West Terrace intersection and even included it's own timber viaduct over the rail lines. The key difference between the old line and the proposed one is that the reservation was on the southern side of Port Road.

There is a community consultation 'drop in session' at Bowden Library on Port Road on Wednesday, October 1 between 4pm and 8pm so you can air out your ideas to the tramway developement team in person if you wish. I am currently thinking up of having the tramline run on it's own reservation leaving Port Road just before the Port Road/Cogden Drive intersection and run on the northern/eastern side of Port Road before running through the middle of the wider section of Port Road before entering the terminus at the Entertainment Centre. This would only need a small bridge over the Torrens River about the same size as the one over the Sturt River on the Glenelg line. I'll post more of my ideas later when I have thought about it deeper and yes, I will be presenting them to the developement team in a written format.
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Re: #Proposed : Port Adelaide Tram Line

#416 Post by Shuz » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:13 pm

I think we're at odds here Will - I wish for the reservation to run adjacent the southern & western sides closest to the urban fabric, whereas you advocate for it to run adjacent the northern and eastern sides, utlising Parklands space. My proposal would follow in the footsteps of the former Findon line.

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Re: #Proposed : Port Adelaide Tram Line

#417 Post by Will409 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:16 pm

Wanna arm wrestle? :mrgreen:

In all seriousness though, I am personally thinking of trying to minimise the contact between trams/cars/idiots alogn Port Road and at the same time, trying to increase average operating speeds of the trams with their own reservation. Not only that but running off road for the majority of it's distance will also be somewhat more asthetically pleasing. However, your idea does have it's own merits Shuz.
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Re: #Proposed : Port Adelaide Tram Line

#418 Post by Shuz » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:32 pm

As I've listed the merits of the western alignment, you could list the merits of an eastern alignment?

Benefits of western alignment:
  • - Directly adjacent to urban fabric.
    - Limited crossing traffic as the alignment feeds directly onto the footpath.
    - Improved safety whilst accessing platforms for majority of commuters.
    - In sync traffic sequencing can operate as is done at Greenhill Road.
    - If engineering mechnasims are in place of the former Findon line, limited earthworks and construction activity required.
    - Reduction of construction time by operating off-road.
    - Limited inconvience of construction to traffic on Port Road as southnbound alignment is re-built due east whilst tram corridor starts work on North Terrace, and is finished as tram construction works approach Thebarton for northbound traffic to be diverted onto the eastmost lanes and utilise old southbound lanes for works to commence on utilising the 2 westmost lanes for tram corridor.
I may go to the information session and submit my input.

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Re: #Proposed : Port Adelaide Tram Line

#419 Post by Wayno » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:45 pm

Shuz wrote:As I've listed the merits of the western alignment, you could list the merits of an eastern alignment?

Benefits of western alignment:
  • - Directly adjacent to urban fabric.
    - Limited crossing traffic as the alignment feeds directly onto the footpath.
    - Improved safety whilst accessing platforms for majority of commuters.
    - In sync traffic sequencing can operate as is done at Greenhill Road.
    - If engineering mechnasims are in place of the former Findon line, limited earthworks and construction activity required.
    - Reduction of construction time by operating off-road.
    - Limited inconvience of construction to traffic on Port Road as southnbound alignment is re-built due east whilst tram corridor starts work on North Terrace, and is finished as tram construction works approach Thebarton for northbound traffic to be diverted onto the eastmost lanes and utilise old southbound lanes for works to commence on utilising the 2 westmost lanes for tram corridor.
I may go to the information session and submit my input.
how would the alignment work down near the entertainment centre? and esp considering a Clipsal site TOD?
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.

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Re: #Proposed : Port Adelaide Tram Line

#420 Post by Will409 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:46 pm

My list of benefits for the eastern alignment and down the centre of the wider section of Port Road:

- Higher operational speeds in the reserve section for shorter journey times or the ability for a late running service to catch up to time or atleast regain most of it.
- Reduction in tram/car/idiot interaction. No chance of a car deliberately driving along the tram line to try and leap frog traffic if it is off road.
- More asthetically pleasing. If the track is laid like the track in Victoria Square, the line will blend in very nicely to the surrounding park although some form of barrier will be needed to prevent people from wandering onto the alignment. A small hedge of sorts would probably be sufficient.
- Reduction in construction costs since a smaller amount of concrete will be needed compared to running 'in road'.
- Reduction in construction time since the road doesn't need to be jack hammered through and a smaller number of utilities will be affected.
- Better and faster pedestrian access to Bonython Park and the police barracks.
- Current intersections can easily be modified to cope with the new tram track and traffic light sequences altered accordingly (one would hope with tramway priority!)
Last edited by Will409 on Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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