PRO: Port Adelaide Tramline | $260m

[peachy]

Funny how the Rann gov rushed the decision of choosing the current less than adequate model of tram, based on the fact it was the only one that could be up and running in time for the last election and now they are fixing their blunder a term later in time for another election. Despite my frustration every time i cram into a chockers tram at rann & co for putting their election prospects ahead of the people they are meant to represent, i do eagerly look forward to the possibility the new trams will be prima and i can move on into a new golden age of Glenelg-City tram travel (and maybe a new gov to boot ).

Those pics just add to the excitement, its just like christmas.

[AtD]

These trams were built for Madrid, which has a similar climate to Adelaide. Hopefully they'll have half decent air conditioning units without the stink we had with the Flexitys.

I can't wait to see one of these arrive at Pirie Street in peak, where the crowds struggle to fit onto the platform, absorb the lot and trundle off. Or see one pull up at Rundle Mall, open its doors and an instant crowd appears and floods the street. What fun!

[SRW]

If there's 22 surplus trams from the Mintra order, should the State Government be aiming to secure more than just 6 (considering how long the lead times can be for new orders)?

[muzzamo]

now this is a mans tram:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... dapest.JPG

[mattblack]

Funny how the Rann gov rushed the decision of choosing the current less than adequate model of tram, based on the fact it was the only one that could be up and running in time for the last election and now they are fixing their blunder a term later in time for another election. Despite my frustration every time i cram into a chockers tram at rann & co for putting their election prospects ahead of the people they are meant to represent, i do eagerly look forward to the possibility the new trams will be prima and i can move on into a new golden age of Glenelg-City tram travel (and maybe a new gov to boot ).

Those pics just add to the excitement, its just like christmas.

On the reverse side of your arguement, if you voted liberal, you wouldn't need to squeeze on a tram because they wouldn't of extended the tramline.

[rubberman]

now this is a mans tram:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... dapest.JPG

Oh yes. I rode them last time I was in Budapest.

They would have no trouble in taking a goodly load from Football Park now.

[Aidan]

European trams to bolster our City-Glenelg fleet
RENATO CASTELLO
May 24, 2009 09:30am

THESE are the French-made trams with a Spanish connection that the State Government hopes will help ease the passenger crush on Adelaide's line.

The Sunday Mail understands the Government is close to sealing a deal to import up to six trams from Madrid to run on the City-to-Bay tramline. The French-made Alstom Citadis trams are scheduled to be in service by December.
...

Madrid's city transport body, MINTRA, ordered 70 of the Alstom trams under a major light-rail project for the Spanish capital.

But it is understood the project has since been scaled back because of the global recession, with 22 superfluous trams available to buy or lease.

State Transport Minister Patrick Conlon's media spokesman, Sam Ion, declined to comment when contacted by the Sunday Mail. Opposition Transport spokesman Duncan McFetridge said he understood the trams were worth about $3 million each, nearly half the price of the Bombardier trams.

My first thought (other than a few technical questions about the Citadis design) was that I thoroughly approve.

But obviously I didn't read that article carefully the first time. Why only six? At that price wouldn't it be better to put in a bid for all 22?

[AtD]

You're assuming that the other 14 haven't already been taken. Note the Sunday Mail article says it's not a done deal yet.

Besides, would the government do with them?

[AG]

My first thought (other than a few technical questions about the Citadis design) was that I thoroughly approve.

But obviously I didn't read that article carefully the first time. Why only six? At that price wouldn't it be better to put in a bid for all 22?

There isn't a need for 22 additional trams. Even if you could buy or lease all 22 they need to have storage space somewhere, which would require financing and constructing an expanded or new facility.

[stumpjumper]

I have yet to see a good argument against building new tramcars here. We have built powered and unpowered rail cars and locomotives, as well as diesel electric submarines - why can't we knock up a few trams??

[AtD]

The Citadis trams have already been built, so I assume you're referring to the Flexitys. I would presume it's cheaper to use an existing design, existing plant and experienced staff - both orders of the Flexitys were appended to larger orders from European cities so to save on tooling costs.

The Australian alternative would be to start from scratch with a new, unproven design (as the design is no doubt protected intellectual property), tool up a new plant, build or import the specialist equipment, establish a supply chain and train up a team of staff. For just a dozen or so vehicles with zero certainty around future orders it's simply not cost effective when compared to the option of imports.

[Will409]

If you wanted to build Flexity's here, you'd spend a fortune trying to tool up the Bombardier plant in Dandenong for what is really a small order in the greater scheme of things. The costs of such a small order wouldn't make building the trams in Australia worthwhile.

[rubberman]

My first thought (other than a few technical questions about the Citadis design) was that I thoroughly approve.

But obviously I didn't read that article carefully the first time. Why only six? At that price wouldn't it be better to put in a bid for all 22?

There isn't a need for 22 additional trams. Even if you could buy or lease all 22 they need to have storage space somewhere, which would require financing and constructing an expanded or new facility.

Yes, but assuming that the Govt is actually going to extend to the Port, would we not be able to use those trams? Or are they intending to use different sort of stock? If so, then surely at the half price which was quoted, maybe some reconsideration of using these trams on the Port Line is warranted? It would seem a little strange to end up with 11 Flexitys 6 Citadis and however many different 'Port' LRVs for basically two lines. A maintenance nightmare.

Add to that, the question you bought up about where the vehicles might be housed. If the Port Line is going to be extended, then presumably those vehicles will need to be housed somewhere anyway. Or are we going to have to have a separate depot for the Port LRV and the Glenelg/Hindmarsh trams? Logistics Logistics - gah.

So, again, why not buy enough Citadis to run the Port Line in total, save $$$ and house them in the same depot?

Of course if the Govt has no intention of extending the trams to the Port, that is another matter.

[AtD]

The Outer Harbor line is looking at a time frame of 2014/15, so that's 6 years away. In the mean time, they'd need to be placed in storage either here or in Europe. They'll be purchased on debt, paying interest and suffering depreciation for six years before they get used. Not a wise use of taxpayers money - there's other things we could buy that can be in use now.

Still, we're assuming there's more than six available. Melbourne already runs these, so surely they'll have their hat in the game along with other cities from across the globe.

Maybe we could buy them, then lease them to Melbourne.

[Prince George]

European trams to bolster our City-Glenelg fleet
The Sunday Mail understands the Government is close to sealing a deal to import up to six trams from Madrid to run on the City-to-Bay tramline. The French-made Alstom Citadis trams are scheduled to be in service by December.

What happened with the plan to get some old tram cars from Hungary? I must admit to having a soft-spot for that idea - I hoped that we were going to embrace their Eastern-bloc origins, leave some of the Hungarian signage up (a-la the old "Gentlemen, please refrain from spitting" signs), and give them names like "From Budapest With Love", "Hungarian Rhapsody" and "The Les Murray Flyer".