News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

[Spurdo]

You could look back at the Australian's approach to privatisation of the SA power system in the first place. Or to the Australian's approach to the NBN question of fibtre to the home vs fibre to the node. You could look at the Australian's approach to debt and deficit in 2013 vs its approach now when it is much bigger.

I'm not asking anyone to take sides, merely look at the figures in these cases and draw conclusions about the Australian.

I'm not trying to take sides. I was simply pointing out that both websites are highly biased (although to different ends of the political spectrum).

[Llessur2002]

I was simply pointing out that both websites are highly biased (although to different ends of the political spectrum).

I'll take the one that's highly biased towards the truth.

[[Shuz]]

I'll take the one that's highly biased towards the truth.

Alternative fact?

[Spurdo]

Can someone please explain to me why people criticise Baseload Generation for being "inflexible"? I always thought it would be better to have a consistent flow of power rather than intermittent generation that relies on demand management(load shedding) to keep up.

[rubberman]

Can someone please explain to me why people criticise Baseload Generation for being "inflexible"? I always thought it would be better to have a consistent flow of power rather than intermittent generation that relies on demand management(load shedding) to keep up.

Baseload generation from coal is inflexible because it takes a long time to fire up boilers. If baseload generation comes from gas or diesel, then it's much more flexible. So, it's not baseload generation per se, rather coal fired generation that lacks the ability to track demand.

That means that often you see coal based systems having demand management such as night time tariffs for water heaters. Similarly, the use of coal for baseload often has gas fired generation being used to supply during peaks. That is unfair on gas generators to some extent, because they get a much lower utilisation of their plant, contributing to higher costs, while coal generators get to run 24/7 and get great plant utilisation. That great utilisation is at the expense of gas generators.

Now, fast forward to renewables. They are intermittent, but with increasing battery efficiency, the intermittency is reducing quickly. Further, a supply from a battery can kick in very quickly, and used in conjunction with a gas generator, can turn the present economics on its head. Add to this, the fact that without demand management of any sort, people are using rooftop solar. This means that when the sun is shining, demand plummets. Gas generators can turn off. Wind turbines can store energy in batteries so that gas generators can use the time bought by that to run turbines up.

Where does all this leave coal? When demand plummets on sunny days and people are drawing on solar, coal generators have a serious problem. They can't efficiently reduce output. Whatever they do, use load banks, or give power away for free, it's bad news for them.

[Spurdo]

Baseload generation from coal is inflexible because it takes a long time to fire up boilers. If baseload generation comes from gas or diesel, then it's much more flexible. So, it's not baseload generation per se, rather coal fired generation that lacks the ability to track demand.

That means that often you see coal based systems having demand management such as night time tariffs for water heaters. Similarly, the use of coal for baseload often has gas fired generation being used to supply during peaks. That is unfair on gas generators to some extent, because they get a much lower utilisation of their plant, contributing to higher costs, while coal generators get to run 24/7 and get great plant utilisation. That great utilisation is at the expense of gas generators.

Now, fast forward to renewables. They are intermittent, but with increasing battery efficiency, the intermittency is reducing quickly. Further, a supply from a battery can kick in very quickly, and used in conjunction with a gas generator, can turn the present economics on its head. Add to this, the fact that without demand management of any sort, people are using rooftop solar. This means that when the sun is shining, demand plummets. Gas generators can turn off. Wind turbines can store energy in batteries so that gas generators can use the time bought by that to run turbines up.

Where does all this leave coal? When demand plummets on sunny days and people are drawing on solar, coal generators have a serious problem. They can't efficiently reduce output. Whatever they do, use load banks, or give power away for free, it's bad news for them.

Thanks for that explanation, that solves many of the other questions that I was thinking about. I also found this article on indaily today about a company based here in Adelaide that is working on a large grid scale storage system. It also says that they are planning on building a 1GWh storage plant near their factory at the former Mitsubishi engine plant at Lonsdale.

[Article]
https://indaily.com.au/news/business/20 ... x-listing/

[PeFe]

Another renewable energy proposal, for 2 new solar farms st Snowtown (next to the big wind farm), and another wind farm near Mintaro.
The wind farm proposal comes with a 50 mw battery.

From The 'Tiser

Snowtown and Mintaro to be site of three major solar farms which would generate hundreds of jobs during construction



THREE solar farms capable of generating enough electricity to power more than 100,000 homes are planned for the state’s Mid North promising hundreds of jobs during construction.

Tilt Renewables is proposing to build a 45MW solar farm and a 70MW solar farm next to South Australia’s largest wind farm project at Snowtown.

The company this month lodged plans with the State Development Commission for the $60 million 45MW Snowtown North Solar Energy farm, which will feature 180,000 panels, battery storage of up to 25MW and is expected to generate up to 200 jobs during construction.

The second larger is still in planning stages and the company said would likely be lodged for approval in the first half of next year.

The company said both projects are capable of powering up to 46,000 homes.

Full article : http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business/ ... 59948c59ae

[PeFe]

More battery technology moving to stage 1 of a small pilot plant, with the potential of something truly game changing if the technology is proven and can lower the price of storage.

From Renew Economy

1414 plans two “gigawatt hour” silicon storage plants in S.A.


An artist’s impression of a 1GWh integrated system

Energy storage company 1414 Degrees has opened a new factory and will begin building its first commercial system next month before listing on the Australian Stock Exchange in early 2018.

The South Australian company has spent almost a decade developing its Thermal Energy Storage System (TESS) technology to store electricity as thermal energy by heating and melting containers full of silicon at a cost estimated to be up to 10 times cheaper than lithium batteries.

1414 Degrees has moved into a 3000sq m factory on the site of the former Mitsubishi engine plant in the southern Adelaide suburb of Lonsdale where it will build its first 10MWh TESS-IND system and the first 13.3MWh test cell for a 200MWh TESS-GRID system.

The company is also planning to initially build two grid scale 1GWh systems in South Australia, which would be comprised of five 200MWh units and potentially play a significant role in stabilising the state’s renewable energy-dependent electricity network.

1414 Degrees has submitted three applications to the South Australian Government’s $150 million Renewable Technology Fund, which has already allocated up to $20 million towards Tesla’s ‘world’s biggest’ lithium-ion battery being built in the state’s Mid North.

Executive Chairman Dr Kevin Moriarty said 1414 Degrees was aiming to list on the Australian Stock Exchange in March or April after it had learned the outcome of its funding applications, which require matching funding.

He said the IPO would plan to raise at least $30 million to support the development of the technology.

“It hasn’t been difficult to raise money but we do need to offer liquidity to shareholders so we are planning to list at the earliest opportunity rather than continuing to raise privately,” Dr Moriarty said.

A tonne of silicon can store enough energy to power up to 28 houses for a day.

Its high latent heat capacity and melting temperature of 1414 C make silicon ideal for storing large amounts of energy.

The process also generates clean useable heat, which can easily be utilised for district heating or industrial purposes.

The 10MWh systems would use about 20 tonnes of silicon, pictured below, and be targeted at industries that required electricity and heat. It is likely the first units will be sent to New South Wales and used in large greenhouses.

Full article : http://reneweconomy.com.au/1414-plans-t ... s-s-75504/

[Goodsy]

Tesla has completed construction of its giant lithium ion battery, described as the world's most powerful, with testing expected in coming days ahead of a December 1 operation deadline

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-23/w ... sa/9183868

[Nort]

The last three posts are all awesome.

[Goodsy]

The Tesla battery was discharging into the grid last night

http://www.wattclarity.com.au/2017/11/h ... to-charge/

[PeFe]

The South Australian government are going to source their energy supplies from Zen Energy (50% owned by Sanjeev Gupta, who bought the Arrium Steel works in Whyalla) until the Aurora Solar Thermal power station is built at Port Augusta.

This good news on 2 fronts, first of all brings more competition to the retail energy market, and secondly increases the chances of Mr Gupta going ahead with his plans for 1 GW of new energy supply from Whyalla, putting downwards pressure on retail electricity prices.

From Renew Economy

S.A. Govt fast-tracks switch to renewables with Zen contract



The South Australia government has decided to fast-track its switch to 100 per cent renewable energy by contracting with Adelaide-based SIMEC ZEN Energy while it waits for the Aurora 150MW solar tower and molten salt storage project to be built.

The contract will underpin SIMEC Zen Energy’s plans to build 1 gigawatt of solar, storage and demand management to power the Whyalla Steelworks, which is switching to renewables and expects to cut its costs by 40 per cent in doing so.

“This is the beginning of a journey that will see SIMEC Zen Energy redefine the energy landscape of Australia, bringing down costs dramatically and making globally competitive energy a key advantage for Australian industry,” chairman Sanjeev Gupta said in a statement.

Gupta, the UK-based billionaire investor, bought the Whyalla steel assets – along with OneSteel’s operations near Melbourne, Sydney and Newcastle – after eyeing an opportunity to switch to green energy, save on energy costs and underpin expansion.

Full article : http://reneweconomy.com.au/s-a-govt-fas ... act-96108/

[Waewick]

1gw solar and battery?

I really hope the other solar thermal gets going too.

But would also appreciate electricity going down.

[Goodsy]

1gw solar and battery?

I really hope the other solar thermal gets going too.

But would also appreciate electricity going down.

7 news said some report has our prices dropping by 7.5% over the next two years.

[Goodsy]

Elon Musk's Tesla to give solar panels and batteries to 50,000 SA homes

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-04/e ... es/9394352