News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
Message
Author
User avatar
PeFe
Legendary Member!
Posts: 882
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:47 am
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 109 times

Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#466 Post by PeFe » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:51 pm

Tailem Bend solar farm not too far from commencing operation...
From Renew Economy
South Australia’s second big solar farm gets generation licence, to start production

Image

The second big solar farm in already renewables-rich South Australia has won its generation licence from the state’s regulator, and plans to start commissioning the project in a few weeks, with full production scheduled for mid April.

The 108MW Tailem Bend solar farm – about 95kms south-east of Adelaide – is being built by Singapore-based Vena Energy, now part of Global Infrastructure Group, and has contracted all of its output to the federal government-owned generator and retailer Snowy Hydro for 22 years.

The $170 million Tailem Bend project will join the Bungala solar project near Port Augusta as the first large-scale solar projects to begin production in South Australia, as the emphasis gradually switches from large-scale wind and rooftop solar, to a more balanced portfolio of wind, solar, rooftop and growing amounts of battery and then pumped hydro storage.

Full article : https://reneweconomy.com.au/south-austr ... ion-52919/

User avatar
PeFe
Legendary Member!
Posts: 882
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:47 am
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 109 times

Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#467 Post by PeFe » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:19 pm

The South Australian government has received 50 proposals for energy storage options.
Hoping pumped hydro wins big amongst the grant money...

And just out of interest, it is entirely possible to power South Australia by wind this afternoon Tuesday Feb 12 but AMEO (Australian Energy Market Operator) dictates a limit of wind supply (1,295 mw) Therefore wind power is curtailed (with nowhere to go) Gas is guaranteed a 300(?)mw bite of the market to "ensure stability"......I thought that was what the big battery is really good at...stability.

From Renew Economy
South Australia gets 50 new grid-scale energy storage proposals


The South Australia state government says it has received more than 50 proposals from energy storage developers keen to tap into a new $50 million scheme that will help navigate the local grid as it moves beyond a 50 per cent share of wind and solar and towards 100 per cent.

The state’s Liberal government is offering $50 million in taxpayer funds through its Grid Scale Storage Fund as it looks to expand its energy storage options, which have so far focused on the highly successful Tesla big battery at Hornsdale (owned and operated by Neoen), and the newly completed Dalrymple North battery on the Yorke Peninsula, and some household schemes,

The fund was formally launched in November and applications for projects ranging from big batteries, to pumped hydro, solar thermal, hydrogen and other forms of storage were due last Thursday.

Full article : https://reneweconomy.com.au/south-austr ... als-89227/

Nort
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:08 pm
Has thanked: 215 times
Been thanked: 131 times

Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#468 Post by Nort » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:40 pm

PeFe wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:19 pm
The South Australian government has received 50 proposals for energy storage options.
Hoping pumped hydro wins big amongst the grant money...

And just out of interest, it is entirely possible to power South Australia by wind this afternoon Tuesday Feb 12 but AMEO (Australian Energy Market Operator) dictates a limit of wind supply (1,295 mw) Therefore wind power is curtailed (with nowhere to go) Gas is guaranteed a 300(?)mw bite of the market to "ensure stability"......I thought that was what the big battery is really good at...stability.

From Renew Economy
South Australia gets 50 new grid-scale energy storage proposals


The South Australia state government says it has received more than 50 proposals from energy storage developers keen to tap into a new $50 million scheme that will help navigate the local grid as it moves beyond a 50 per cent share of wind and solar and towards 100 per cent.

The state’s Liberal government is offering $50 million in taxpayer funds through its Grid Scale Storage Fund as it looks to expand its energy storage options, which have so far focused on the highly successful Tesla big battery at Hornsdale (owned and operated by Neoen), and the newly completed Dalrymple North battery on the Yorke Peninsula, and some household schemes,

The fund was formally launched in November and applications for projects ranging from big batteries, to pumped hydro, solar thermal, hydrogen and other forms of storage were due last Thursday.

Full article : https://reneweconomy.com.au/south-austr ... als-89227/
I'm hoping that in the not too distant future we have an over-supply of wind/solar combined with storage that means we can rely on it for 100% of generation along with having excess to sell interstate.

User avatar
PeFe
Legendary Member!
Posts: 882
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:47 am
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 109 times

Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#469 Post by PeFe » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:04 pm

I'm hoping that in the not too distant future we have an over-supply of wind/solar combined with storage that means we can rely on it for 100% of generation along with having excess to sell interstate.
Thats today......I dont just mean Tuesday Feb 12, I mean "the current time in South Australian history".

Daily average power usage (business hours) 1600 mw. (2000mw in summer, 3400mw at heat wave peaks)

Current wind farm capacity 2000mw (soon to be 2200 with the Lincoln Gap wind farm opening Q1 2019)

Current solar capacity 800mw (combined home panels and solar farms) This will rise substantially in the coming years, about 250 mw in 2019 alone just from new solar farms.

Of course these numbers relate to "maximum capacity" so if the wind is not blowing or the sun is not shining.....but of course if both are generating tons of power then the excess can, and is, being exported.

Storage projects will lessen our dependency on (expensive) natural gas a power source and on our dependency on interstate connectors during heatwaves.

Nort
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:08 pm
Has thanked: 215 times
Been thanked: 131 times

Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#470 Post by Nort » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:58 am

PeFe wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:04 pm
I'm hoping that in the not too distant future we have an over-supply of wind/solar combined with storage that means we can rely on it for 100% of generation along with having excess to sell interstate.
Thats today......I dont just mean Tuesday Feb 12, I mean "the current time in South Australian history".

Daily average power usage (business hours) 1600 mw. (2000mw in summer, 3400mw at heat wave peaks)

Current wind farm capacity 2000mw (soon to be 2200 with the Lincoln Gap wind farm opening Q1 2019)

Current solar capacity 800mw (combined home panels and solar farms) This will rise substantially in the coming years, about 250 mw in 2019 alone just from new solar farms.

Of course these numbers relate to "maximum capacity" so if the wind is not blowing or the sun is not shining.....but of course if both are generating tons of power then the excess can, and is, being exported.

Storage projects will lessen our dependency on (expensive) natural gas a power source and on our dependency on interstate connectors during heatwaves.
Yeah, getting that storage up and running is the kicker. Plus we need excess capacity to account for events such as needing to ramp up desalination.

SBD
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1045
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:49 pm
Location: Blakeview
Has thanked: 328 times
Been thanked: 79 times

Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#471 Post by SBD » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:15 pm

The entire output of the Hornsdale wind farm is contracted to the ACT government. It makes sense for an NSW interconnector so that power doesn't have to be exported via Victoria.

There are also several proposals for solar farms in that part of the mid-north. A new high-capacity transmission line will help to make them more viable so that they aren't limited in their maximum output by the network's capacity to carry it to customers. I believe the interconnector between Berri and Mildura is limited sometimes by the ability to supply both the Riverland and the interconnector on the SA side, or Sunraysia and the interconnector on the Victorian side if there is high demand within the supplying state as well as to transfer electricity interstate.

User avatar
PeFe
Legendary Member!
Posts: 882
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:47 am
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 109 times

Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#472 Post by PeFe » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:17 pm

A little '"explainer" article on the proposed expansion of the SA-NSW electricity interconnector.

https://www.energymatters.com.au/renewa ... connector/

User avatar
PeFe
Legendary Member!
Posts: 882
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:47 am
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 109 times

Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#473 Post by PeFe » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:37 pm

Another "explainer" article re large amounts of wind power in the South Australian electricity grid and AMEO's changing response to the increasing role of renewables.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/aemo-furthe ... lia-73634/

User avatar
PeFe
Legendary Member!
Posts: 882
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:47 am
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 109 times

Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#474 Post by PeFe » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:28 am

How much money did the big Tesla battery make in 2018?

https://reneweconomy.com.au/tesla-big-b ... 2018-2018/

SBD
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1045
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:49 pm
Location: Blakeview
Has thanked: 328 times
Been thanked: 79 times

Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#475 Post by SBD » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:22 pm

PeFe wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:28 am
How much money did the big Tesla battery make in 2018?

https://reneweconomy.com.au/tesla-big-b ... 2018-2018/
So Neoen own it and collect the revenue from using the battery to maintain stability of the NEM. How much did the state and federal governments pay for it and how much did Neoen pay? Do the governments get any return on their investments besides grid stability and political goodwill?

Nort
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:08 pm
Has thanked: 215 times
Been thanked: 131 times

Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#476 Post by Nort » Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:57 pm

SBD wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:22 pm
PeFe wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:28 am
How much money did the big Tesla battery make in 2018?

https://reneweconomy.com.au/tesla-big-b ... 2018-2018/
So Neoen own it and collect the revenue from using the battery to maintain stability of the NEM. How much did the state and federal governments pay for it and how much did Neoen pay? Do the governments get any return on their investments besides grid stability and political goodwill?
Figures released last year suggest that the cost to SA taxpayers is a government contract worth 4 million a year for supplying stability to the grid.

User avatar
PeFe
Legendary Member!
Posts: 882
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:47 am
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 109 times

Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#477 Post by PeFe » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:17 pm

The South Australian government own 70 mw (or 70% of the battery). Neoen own 30%....however the government pays Neoen to "manage" the (whole) battery.

So who gets the money from the frequency control services?

My guess is that when Neoen uses its part of the battery the money goes straight to them, but when the SA government section of the battery is used....I am not sure.

Dan van Holst Pellekan has claimed in the past that "the battery deal was terrible".....but alas no details, it just sounded like "a bit of pollitiking" to me.
And then weeks later he claimed that the standby diesel generators were "overpriced, and not even necessary".... and of course they were needed in the heatwave of January 24.....Err shut up Dan your foot seems perpetually in your mouth!

It seems that the government section of the battery is to remain on permanent "emergency stand-by mode" either for grid stabilization or emergency power
addition (not used on Jan 24 though)

Neoen continue to sell its 30% of the battery power into the market....and that's it, the other 70% is quarantined for the above mentioned purpose.

I wonder one day in the near future whether a future Liberal government may sell the remaining 70 % of the battery to Neoen.......more big batteries are coming (all around the country) and commercial reality says that the power will be sold back into the grid during times of need.

User avatar
PeFe
Legendary Member!
Posts: 882
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:47 am
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 109 times

Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#478 Post by PeFe » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:29 pm

Lincoln Gap wind farm near Port Augusta is on track for a late winter commencement of operations.

From Renew Economy
Life after coal: Lincoln Gap wind farm powers up, battery to be installed soon

The former coal town of Port Augusta continues its transformation into a major renewable energy hub with the “powering up” of the 212MW Lincoln Gap wind farm, one of the biggest new developments in a state that already sources more than 50 per cent of its demand from wind and solar.

Lincoln Gap, about 12kms from Port Augusta, joins the 220MW Bungala solar farm, as two major clean energy replacements for the two coal fired generators – Northern and Playford – that dominated the city’s economy, and its environment – for decades.

The second stage of the Bungala facility is nearly finished, and more clean energy projects are planned for the town and its surrounding areas, including the 160MW Aurora solar tower and molten salt storage project, DP Energy’s huge wind and solar and storage project, and Sanjeev Gupta’s big battery associated with the “greening” of the Whyalla steelworks.

Full article : https://reneweconomy.com.au/life-after- ... oon-58291/

Nort
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:08 pm
Has thanked: 215 times
Been thanked: 131 times

Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#479 Post by Nort » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:10 pm

PeFe wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:17 pm
I wonder one day in the near future whether a future Liberal government may sell the remaining 70 % of the battery to Neoen......
Almost certainly will happen. The standard privatization argument goes like this:

1. Government owned infrastructure is under performing, the private market could do better.

or...

2. Government owned infrastructure is over performing, it's unfair to the private market.

claybro
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 1983
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:16 pm
Has thanked: 48 times
Been thanked: 213 times

Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#480 Post by claybro » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:17 pm

PeFe wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:17 pm
The South Australian government own 70 mw (or 70% of the battery). Neoen own 30%....however the government pays Neoen to "manage" the (whole) battery.

So who gets the money from the frequency control services?

My guess is that when Neoen uses its part of the battery the money goes straight to them, but when the SA government section of the battery is used....I am not sure.

Dan van Holst Pellekan has claimed in the past that "the battery deal was terrible".....but alas no details, it just sounded like "a bit of pollitiking" to me.
And then weeks later he claimed that the standby diesel generators were "overpriced, and not even necessary".... and of course they were needed in the heatwave of January 24.....Err shut up Dan your foot seems perpetually in your mouth!

It seems that the government section of the battery is to remain on permanent "emergency stand-by mode" either for grid stabilization or emergency power
addition (not used on Jan 24 though)

Neoen continue to sell its 30% of the battery power into the market....and that's it, the other 70% is quarantined for the above mentioned purpose.

I wonder one day in the near future whether a future Liberal government may sell the remaining 70 % of the battery to Neoen.......more big batteries are coming (all around the country) and commercial reality says that the power will be sold back into the grid during times of need.
Surely its sale (government portion) would depend on the lifespan of the battery? Do they even know how long these giant batteries will actually last being relatively new technology? That being said, there is nothing more annoying than a politician bagging a former governments decisions/deals. You've won the election, presumably because the public already formed some sort of conclusion, so just get on with managing the situation at hand...good or bad, and shut up about the past! The public don't need constant harping about issues long ago decided on by the electorate.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: adelaide transport, Google Adsense [Bot] and 8 guests