News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

[Spurdo]

Latest trial to integrate wind power as a "base stabiliser".

Can anyone here explain how this would work? I know a fair amount about electricity generation but even I don't know how intermittent generation would be able to provide stability without some form of battery storage.

[SBD]

Latest trial to integrate wind power as a "base stabiliser".

Can anyone here explain how this would work? I know a fair amount about electricity generation but even I don't know how intermittent generation would be able to provide stability without some form of battery storage.

The June Stage 3 construction update includes "Completed the installation of the Diesel Generator and terminations". That could be a clue to how it provides the "Frequency control and ancillary services".

However, a quick Google search finds things like GE: Why grids don’t need to rely on “synchronous” generation and How batteries can stabilize the grid that include claims that Texas and Germany already have these services from wind and batteries.

[Spurdo]

The June Stage 3 construction update includes "Completed the installation of the Diesel Generator and terminations". That could be a clue to how it provides the "Frequency control and ancillary services".

However, a quick Google search finds things like GE: Why grids don’t need to rely on “synchronous” generation and How batteries can stabilize the grid that include claims that Texas and Germany already have these services from wind and batteries.

I don't mean to sound rude or pushy, but do you have any articles from a neutral source? RenewEconomy and other green power sites are just as biased as The Australian however, towards the other side of the argument.

[SBD]

The June Stage 3 construction update includes "Completed the installation of the Diesel Generator and terminations". That could be a clue to how it provides the "Frequency control and ancillary services".

However, a quick Google search finds things like GE: Why grids don’t need to rely on “synchronous” generation and How batteries can stabilize the grid that include claims that Texas and Germany already have these services from wind and batteries.

I don't mean to sound rude or pushy, but do you have any articles from a neutral source? RenewEconomy and other green power sites are just as biased as The Australian however, towards the other side of the argument.

Google provides lots of hits, including some "scholarly articles", but I am not competent to understand the technical ones to to tell if they are neutral and on-topic.

The "big battery" was actually described as two batteries doing different things. I suspect the smaller one is involved in the frequency control system, and the larger one is used to play the market by storing cheap electricity and selling high-priced energy..

[bits]

Latest trial to integrate wind power as a "base stabiliser".

Can anyone here explain how this would work? I know a fair amount about electricity generation but even I don't know how intermittent generation would be able to provide stability without some form of battery storage.

Hornsdale wind farm is the site where the large battery is being installed.

[Spurdo]

I read a document the other day that said a large Combined Cycle gas power station is currently planned for Leigh Creek as part of the Leigh Creek Energy Project. The link is here if anyone wants to read as it lists some other electricity projects currently planned for SA - https://www.aemo.com.au/-/media/Files/E ... _SAFTR.pdf

[Norman]

Finally, some policy from the Liberals!

Interesting concept I wonder how many MW this will reduce off our peak load.

SA Election 2018: State Liberals propose $100m home battery plan as part of energy policy

UP to 40,000 homes with solar panels could access cash from a $100 million State Government fund to link them to a battery, in a major plank of the Liberal Party energy policy to be released today.

Opposition Leader Steven Marshall will make one of the biggest announcements of the state election campaign, unveiling a long-awaited plan to lower power prices that will include battery grants averaging around $2500.

It comes just days after SA Best Leader Nick Xenophon threw the election into chaos by announcing a return to state politics, and six months after Labor released its energy plan.

The Advertiser can reveal Mr Marshall’s “Liberal Energy Solution” will feature a $100 million household battery fund that seeks to take advantage of SA’s nation-leading levels of solar panels. The fund will be means tested, and aim to get batteries into 40,000 homes.

In a broadside at Premier Jay Weatherill’s high-profile deal with Tesla boss Elon Musk for a big battery, Mr Marshall said his plan “will focus on South Australians, not celebrity billionaires”.

“We are going to back South Australians who want to take charge of their energy generation and consumption,” Mr Marshall said on Monday night.

“South Australians have been treated like guinea pigs by Jay Weatherill and the Labor Party for too long.

“A Marshall Liberal Government will end Labor’s dangerous experiment and deliver cheaper electricity.”

Energy experts say household batteries, including models produced by Adelaide-based companies, are on the verge of moving from luxury items to mainstream technology.

Mr Marshall said his battery plan had been independently modelled and would deliver direct benefits to households as well as taking pressure off the shared electricity grid.

Latest figures show that 32 per cent of SA homes — almost one in three — have solar panels.

The average grant available to the 40,000 homes targeted by the Liberals would be $2500.

Adelaide City Council’s sustainability incentives scheme already offers its residents up to $5000 for installing a household battery, and the same for putting up solar panels.

A collapse in the cost of renewable technologies and the skyrocketing price of energy from the grid have led to industry predictions it will soon be cheaper to go it alone at home.

Currently selling for around $10,000 each, home batteries allow both backup during times of blackouts or load-shedding as well as the ability to store energy and sell it back to the grid.

That means households can theoretically buy power when it is cheap, sell it when it is expensive and take pressure off the shared network at peak demand times around sunset.

The release of the SA Liberals’ energy plan comes ahead of their federal colleagues finalising a response to a national review by Chief Scientist Alan Finkel earlier this year.

It also comes as the Australian Energy Market Operator continues to warn of possible blackouts and load shedding over the coming summer, with the first test just a month away.

According to current projections, SA and Victoria both face blackout risks following the closure of large coal-fired power stations in both states.

AEMO’s forecasts show SA will be running low on power reserves from November 20. SA is expected to remain with little excess in the system for most of the summer, and faces risk all the way to election day.

The Liberals’ move is also a sign the party believes it must promote a broader vision for the state, and give voters disgruntled with Labor a reason to avoid Senator Xenophon.

Mr Marshall has said he will not enter a coalition with SA Best, and claims only the Liberals can deliver reforms needed in the state while managing the realities of government.

Since the statewide blackout in September last year, Labor claims to have delivered significant reforms which will put downward pressure on prices and prevent blackouts.

It is spending $110 million on emergency diesel generators for the next two summers, at the Elizabeth Holden factory site and Adelaide Desalination Plant.

Mr Weatherill says they will probably be purchased outright and switched to gas after that, and moved to a different site, to become a promised “state-owned power station”.

The Government has also claimed credit for plans for a solar-thermal plant at Port Augusta, which has won a contract for the supply of public sector electricity. It still requires the release of a $110 million concessional loan from the Federal Government.

Plans for an energy security target, in which the State Government would force retailers to buy some power from reliable generators like gas, have been shelved until 2020.

Parliament has granted Mineral Resources and Energy Minister Tom Koutsantonis new authority to order power plants to switch on and manage power flows to Victoria.

Mr Koutsantonis yesterday revealed that companies from around the world had submitted almost 60 proposals under the Government’s $150 million Renewable Technology Fund. Storage and bioenergy projects were eligible for the grants and loans.

“What this result shows is that companies around the world recognise the potential that existsin the energy and storage sector in SA,” Mr Koutsantonis said.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... 596bbf62db

[bits]

Finally, some policy from the Liberals!

How is this plan fair?
It gives batteries to those who already have solar.
The people that can't afford solar, the ones that need cheap power the most, are left further subsidizing those more well off.

[rubberman]

Finally, some policy from the Liberals!

How is this plan fair?
It gives batteries to those who already have solar.
The people that can't afford solar, the ones that need cheap power the most, are left further subsidizing those more well off.

My reading of the report is that you don't need to have a solar panel. You can buy power from the grid off peak, and then use it during peak hours or during blackouts. It would be feasible in conjunction with time of day or peak tariffs.

That's if I'm reading it correctly.

It's certainly an interesting concept.

Of course, there's nothing to stop the ALP from pinching the idea, either.

[mshagg]

So basically further subsidising homeowners who probably already cashed in on solar panel subsidies and electricity grid rebates which were funded though higher tariff rates for all consumers. Great stuff from the party of free enterprise, no?

Whilst well intentioned - and let's face it you cant come to the SA election without an energy policy - it suggests they're either not sure how the local grid works, or don't care and just see it as a vote winner.

The distribution costs from the poles and wires, a primary driver of the retail cost of energy in recent years, aren't all that variable. If you give homeowners capacity to further remove themselves from the grid, the cost of the network doesn't fall and a higher supply charge has to be passed on to those who don't/cant/wont participate in the scheme. That's on top of the direct subsidy being provided to people who can afford the tech in the first place. This is precisely what happened with solar tariff rebates.

Without endorsing Weatherill's plan, their approach to increasing generation makes sense when you consider the structure of the energy market. That said without significant generation capacity coming online in the NEM it's difficult to see how anyone's going to put downwards pressure on retail pricing... seems the best we can hope for is greater resilience.

[rev]

So instead of a big battery that the government is building, the Libs want to pay for 40,000 homes that have solar panels to also get a battery installed.

Wow, so clever. So original.

[rubberman]

For a cost of $100m and 40,000 homes, that's $2500/battery.


That gets you about 3.5 kW of storage. That is, an hour of running an air conditioner and some lights for 40000 homes.

The question is whether it's better to buy one big $100m battery to serve more homes, or the same amount to serve 40000 homes for an hour.

So, it boils down to the question of whether big batteries are more efficient than small ones. If there's not much in it, or smaller batteries are cheaper, Mr Marshall might be onto something.

However, if they aren't cheaper, there's no advantage in lots of small batteries vs one big battery, and a big disadvantage in that lots of little batteries don't directly help grid stability because you can't control them all like one big battery able to be switched in if the system starts going unstable.

I wonder if Mr Marshall has taken the battery out of his car and replaced it with bundles of energiser bunnies?

[SRW]

There's probably a resilience advantage in lots of little batteries but there's then a question of equity. Equity both in terms of the fact that not everyone will have access to reserve power (as with a big grid connected battery). And because the Liberal proposal favours those who are well off enough to have already afforded solar panels and can again afford to install a battery.

It's probably clever politics as it'll appeal to their usual voter. But then again, that's been their downfall in recent elections - winning over their hardcore constituency to the exclusion of the voters they need to actually win.

[Nathan]

FWIW, the Adelaide City Council already runs a rebate on battery storage. 50% of the cost up to $5000.

http://www.cityofadelaide.com.au/your-c ... es-scheme/

[SBD]

Putting batteries near the site of consumption also reduces the need for larger transmission lines into an area only to handle the afternoon summer peak. I don't know how many areas this is becoming a problem for, but it is possible that urben infill increases that demand. If the batteries are on houses that already have solar, the inverters etc are already in place, and it is possible the control circuits to allow the power companies to manage charge and discharge are also in place.