News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

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rev
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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#91 Post by rev » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:07 pm

Only around 25% of households in SA have roof top solar panels.
Is Marshalls plan really going to make that much of a difference?
If 1,000 homes in Mawson Lakes have solar, and get these batteries, what difference will it make to 10,000 homes in Elizabeth?

A better policy would be to fund solar panels and battery storage for all South Australian homes.
Bring that technology within reach of everyone. Not just the minority who can afford it, or those able to put them selves in debt to afford it.
If we can all generate our own power, and have storage that gives us a couple hours of power each night during summer, wouldn't that make a far bigger impact?

If they want to win the election that is..

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#92 Post by mshagg » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:51 pm

Marshall has today clarified that of the $300 annual saving modelled for a typical household, "$60 to $70" of that would be due to his plan to give $100mil to people for the installation of batteries and $200mil to ElectraNET on the assumption they can knock an interconnector together within 3 years.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-11/s ... gy/9039726

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#93 Post by monotonehell » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:15 pm

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Exit on the right in the direction of travel.

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#94 Post by rev » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:13 pm

Too bad for Marshall that said interconnectors have already been estimated to cost closer to a billion dollars each.

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#95 Post by Spurdo » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:40 am

Not sure if you guys have heard about this but there is a company based here in Adelaide who are developing their own energy storage system - http://1414degrees.com.au

According to their latest quarterly update they are planning on building a 1GWh storage facility (1GW is roughly equivalent to the full capacity of Torrens Island at present) The setup seems to be 5 blocks of 200MWh storage units plus what looks to be a Combined Cycle Gas Turbine (Same type as Pelican Point and the planned Leigh Creek Power Station)

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#96 Post by PeFe » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:43 pm

This announcement is a biggy......

Sanjeev Gupta plans for solar power/storeage in and around Whyalla.

Pumped hydro from the Middleback Ranges.......now that really is different !

From Renew Economy
Gupta-owned Zen Energy plans 1GW solar and storage in South Australia

Image

UK billionaire Sanjeev Gupta has moved quickly to leverage his new investment in Australian renewable energy and storage company Zen Energy, announcing plans for 1GW of “dispatchable” renewable generation in South Australia.

The investment – hinted at earlier this month by Zen’s Ross Garnaut – will be based around up to 680MW of solar capacity, and significant investments in battery storage, pumped hydro and demand management.

Included in the plan are expanding the proposed 80MW solar plant in Whyalla to 200MW, and then adding a further 480MW of solar to support the expansion of industrial capacity in the steel city of Whyalla and industrial loads elsewhere in the state.

The other projects include:

· 100MW/100MWh battery at Port Augusta;
· a 100MW of demand response at the Whyalla Steelworks and other SA sites;
· 120MW/600MWh pumped hydro storage facility at a disused iron ore mine pit in the Middleback Ranges.

Full article : http://reneweconomy.com.au/gupta-owned- ... lia-92904/

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#97 Post by Spurdo » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:11 pm

Sounds like a good plan except for this part
· a 100MW of demand response at the Whyalla Steelworks and other SA sites;
Yuck, more load shedding

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#98 Post by PeFe » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:16 pm

Spurdo wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:11 pm
Sounds like a good plan except for this part
· a 100MW of demand response at the Whyalla Steelworks and other SA sites;
Yuck, more load shedding
To me 100mw demand response means storeage at a specific site, to be used for that site only.
For example, 100mw stored (via batteries or whatever) at factory, to be used only at that factory when there are power issues.
I welcome other peoples opinions if they have a clearer explanation.......

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#99 Post by Spurdo » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:24 pm

PeFe wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:16 pm
To me 100mw demand response means storeage at a specific site, to be used for that site only.
For example, 100mw stored (via batteries or whatever) at factory, to be used only at that factory when there are power issues.
I welcome other peoples opinions if they have a clearer explanation.......
Demand Response is basically electricity rationing (load shedding). It involves shutting off houses and factories to make up for the fact that gentailers such as AGL & Origin are too addicted to super profits from high prices to build extra generating capacity. Normally we would try to incentivise companies to build extra capacity but for some reason everyone from energy retailers to Silicon Valley hipsters seem to be in favour of this terrible idea.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demand_response

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#100 Post by Goodsy » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:30 pm

PeFe wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:16 pm
Spurdo wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:11 pm
Sounds like a good plan except for this part
· a 100MW of demand response at the Whyalla Steelworks and other SA sites;
Yuck, more load shedding
To me 100mw demand response means storeage at a specific site, to be used for that site only.
For example, 100mw stored (via batteries or whatever) at factory, to be used only at that factory when there are power issues.
I welcome other peoples opinions if they have a clearer explanation.......
maybe they plan on switching to electric arc furnaces

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#101 Post by PeFe » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:36 pm

Pehaps it means "the ability to shift/shed 100mw internally" ie within the factories owned by Sanjeev Gupta, nothing to do with power supplies for the general population.

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#102 Post by SBD » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:47 pm

PeFe wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:36 pm
Pehaps it means "the ability to shift/shed 100mw internally" ie within the factories owned by Sanjeev Gupta, nothing to do with power supplies for the general population.
I don't know what the steel works' total electricity consumption is compared to how much the company wil generate. So to me it is a recognition that when the spot price of electiricty spikes up, then either it is more profitable to sell electiricty than to sell steel at that moment, or at that moment's price, there is no profit in making steel.

Furnaces don't like being turned off and on again, so I don't know which parts of the business are in question. Do they run electric crushers, excavators or conveyors in the mines? Miners might be quite happy to be given an early knock-off on the ten hottest days of the year! For all we know, the WHS rules might give the workers the time off anyway, and there is no additional cost to business for being paid by the electricity retailers to shut down at those times :-)

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#103 Post by Goodsy » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:18 am

http://www.afr.com/news/south-australia ... 106-gzfqaf
Average electricity prices in South Australia fell below those in coal-rich Victoria and NSW in the first four months of the financial year, and have been the lowest of any mainland eastern state in the past two months.

The surprise reversal of the historical premium paid by South Australian energy users suggests steps taken by the Australian Energy Market Operator and the Weatherill government to ease the state's energy reliability problems are working, energy export Ross Garnaut says.

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#104 Post by PeFe » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:54 pm

Exciting times ahead for renewables/power generation in South Australia.

Dec 01 (2017) 100 mw Tesla battery due to be commissioned at Jamestown, to be used to "transition" between windy and non-windy periods, as well as push power into the grid when the wind is not blowing.

May (2018) 30 mw battery due to come online in the Yorke Peninsula. Trialing separating the Yorke Peninsula from the main grid (i.e. isolating it from a major blackout) and also push power into the grid when the wind is not blowing.

2019 - 200 mw wind farm, and 200 mw solar farm both being built near Port Augusta. The solar farm will be "storeage ready" according to the developers (they have given no further details of what that actually means)

Late 2018 or 2019 - 140 mw solar farm being built by Adani (yes the same Adani who dig coal mines in Queensland) near Whyalla

Aurora Solar Thermal (Port Augusta).......the Federal government has committed $100 million as a low interest starter loan, whilst the South Australian government has committed to be a client (paying no more than $78 mw hour, currently gas is around $100 mw hour) The American company behind this proposal is currently chasing finance in the usual places, banks/private investors/hedge funds etc.
The plant would supply 130-150 mw to the SA government and when that amount is not needed the excess will be sold into the grid.
This proposal comes with 135 mw of storeage ( that can last 8 hours)

Sanjeev Gupta's Power Proposals - the owner of the Arrium Steel Works in Whyalla wants to drive down the price of power in South Australia by building his own power generating systems. A solar farm (480 mw) at Whyalla powering the steel works, a 100 mw battery at Port Augusta to store energy and protect the steel works from a major blackout, and also construct a pumped hydro facility at a disused mine in the Middleback Ranges (owned by Arrium) that would pump 300-400 mw of power into the grid when needed.

These are concrete proposals......there are other projects floating around that either have no finance or no detailed development path.

Remember the average daily South Australian grid usage is around 1600 mw so all these proposals will add a lot of capacity to that, so much in fact that in 2019 I see South Australia becoming a net energy exporter ( currently a net energy importer due to shortages in summer)

And best of all this should put some downward pressure on retail energy prices for the average South Australian, nothing like fooding the market to drive prices down.......

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#105 Post by Norman » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:58 pm

PeFe wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:54 pm
Remember the average daily South Australian grid usage is around 1600 mw so all these proposals will add a lot of capacity to that, so much in fact that in 2019 I see South Australia becoming a net energy exporter ( currently a net energy importer due to shortages in summer)
This has already changed, in the first 4 months of this financial year SA has been a net exporter to the national grid. Let's hope this continues.

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