News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

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PeFe
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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#481 Post by PeFe » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:48 pm

claybro wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:17 pm
Surely its sale (government portion) would depend on the lifespan of the battery? Do they even know how long these giant batteries will actually last being relatively new technology?
The battery is expected to last 20-30 years (or 10,000 cycles..charges and recharges).

Sorry no sources for this assertion, but I have read this in the past.

I am not ideologically opposed to the sale of the government section of the battery (especially it the proceeds were used to "seed" future storage options)
but my guess is that the function would stay the same.

The computers at Hornsdale monitor the National Electricity Market with intimate knowledge of who is producing how much power and where.

This is what makes the battery so useful in "grid stabilization"...it is like a "big brother" watching the grid, instantly adding power when "fluctuations" occur.

The health of the grid is number one priority, easily more important than power shortfalls in any given area.

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#482 Post by bits » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:53 am

I thought state Labor claimed the batteries wiped costs of nearly $50 million per year for frequency stability and grid restart services.

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#483 Post by SBD » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:33 pm

bits wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:53 am
I thought state Labor claimed the batteries wiped costs of nearly $50 million per year for frequency stability and grid restart services.
I think I read that the batteries respond quickly to instability and so the grid operators do not need to pay as much or as often to the gas generators to keep things stable. I think this is a side-effect and is not built into the current grid services pricing model - which means that there is no financial or contract arrangement in place to ensure that the batteries do it, rather than doing it for free (most of the time) and just getting a polite "thank you".

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#484 Post by PeFe » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:55 pm

The electricity producers themselves use to provide grid stabilization services in the past.......an operator would be assigned that role during their shift.

This person would literally be watching the frequency stability of the grid constantly. I believe at its peak the electricity providers were charging $42,000 a mwh for these services.....

The Tesla big battery is not just monitoring South Australia, it is "looking at" every electricity producer involved in the National Energy Market.

All Australians living in South Australia, Victoria, New South Wales, Queensland and Tasmania benefit (and pay towards the cost of services) from the big battery.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/tesla-big-b ... ngs-95920/

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#485 Post by PeFe » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:43 pm

The Tailem Bend solar farm has started sending electricity into the grid.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/south-austr ... ion-56221/

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#486 Post by PeFe » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:50 pm

And a new gas plant to come online......eventually replacing aging equipment at Torrens Island facility, and will integrate "better" with renewables.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/agl-gets-re ... ant-15012/

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#487 Post by PeFe » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:24 pm

Great article from Renew Economy detailing the Tesla's battery response to an interstate power issue.
If you didn't understand why the battery is so important then you will after you read this.
How the Tesla big battery kept the lights on in South Australia

They say that lightning never strikes twice. But on August 25 last year a single lightning strike managed to take out two major circuits on the main transmission line linking NSW and Queensland.

The impact was almost immediate, and felt across Australia’s main grid. It caused load-shedding at a scale that made the much-talked about load shedding in Victoria in January’s heat wave look comparatively small beer.

We reported the events at the time, noting the irony of the Tesla big battery holding together the grid on the very first full day of work for the new prime minister, Scott Morrison, the man who had spent so much time promoting coal and ridiculing new technologies like the big battery.

Full article : https://reneweconomy.com.au/how-the-tes ... lia-20393/

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#488 Post by NTRabbit » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:46 am

SA Water are planning to cut down one of the pine plantations within the Happy Valley Reservoir boundary and build a 30,000 panel solar farm, residents upset. It's real, despite the date.
Cut down trees for solar panels? Not on our watch, say residents

APRIL 01, 2019

Flagstaff Hill residents are furious over a plan by SA Water to remove the pine tree plantation on Black Rd to make way for a solar farm.

SA Water wants to remove the trees and install 30,000 solar panels on the corner of Black Rd and Main South Rd.

About 15 local residents who oppose the plan have joined forces to oppose it.

Flagstaff Hill resident Greg Keep said he is concerned about the visual impact of losing the trees as well as the potential loss of wildlife.

“SA Water haven’t done their homework as to the ramifications, they don’t even know what sort of panels they are going to use yet,” Mr Keep said.

“We are concerned about the aesthetics of it — because it is going to be a national park, that area — and what happens to the rest of the animals like the kangaroos up there.

“There are black and white cockatoos that feed off the nuts off of those trees — and there will be a reflection off the solar panels for drivers going down Black Rd.

“There are going to be huge ramifications for everyone in the area.”

He said the land behind the old drive-in on Majors Rd at O’Halloran Hill would be a better site for the solar farm.

Michael Butt lives directly opposite the pine plantation in the Pines Estate and said he was concerned about the lack of consultation.

“I strongly oppose the proposed development,” he said.

“It is a huge industrial-scale development and will constitute a blight on a neighbourhood which over the years has been blessed with a cornucopia of bird, animal and tree life.”

Mr Keep said the group had been touch with Environment Minister David Speirs about their concerns.

Mr Speirs said ensuring the “visual appeal” of the site was a priority for him.

“As a local member in the area, I am aware of the concerns of the community and have sought assurances from SA Water that they will continue to work with the local community to co-create a visual buffer for the site,” Mr Speirs said.

“The proposed solar installation at Happy Valley Reservoir is part of SA Water’s goal for zero net electricity costs in the coming years.

“This project is about reducing SA Water’s operating costs in an environmentally friendly way which in turn will help with household water bills.”

SA Water’s community engagement manager Matthew Bonnett said the company was working closely with direct neighbours to gather their feedback on the project.

“We understand visual amenity is important to the local community, so solar panels at Happy Valley will be set back around 20 metres from the reservoir reserve boundary and screened by an earth mound planted with low growing native vegetation, which will add to local biodiversity,” Mr Bonnett said.

“Forestry SA’s commercial Aleppo pine plantation hosted on SA Water land along Main South and Black Rd in Happy Valley will be harvested, to allow for the installation of solar panels. (The) pine crop was always intended to be harvested and is several years overdue for felling.

“A large area of native vegetation will remain in the reservoir reserve.”

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#489 Post by Waewick » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:38 am

They should have just harvested it, then put the panels.

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#490 Post by Jaymz » Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:29 pm

Sounds like a fair idea to me. Let's be honest here, a pine plantation is hardly attractive to the eye anyway. In fact, it's quite unsightly.

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#491 Post by rhino » Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:00 pm

There is another issue - the land is Crown Land that was dedicated to SAWater to care for and maintain the water infrastructure. At a profit to themselves, of course. Now it can be argued that being self-sufficient power-wise is in line with that, but only if they use the power themselves. If they sell the power, they are using Crown Land for profit outside of the dedication.
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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#492 Post by claybro » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:04 pm

So now we are proposing to cut down trees, which absorb co2 and cool the surrounding air, in order to put in a solar farm, which will act as a heat island increasing local temperature, in order to help prevent co2 being generated elsewhere in the generation system to cool the atmosphere elsewhere? Seems a bit mad to me, and I'm not surprised the residents are pissed off.

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#493 Post by Goodsy » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:08 pm

claybro wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:04 pm
So now we are proposing to cut down trees, which absorb co2 and cool the surrounding air, in order to put in a solar farm, which will act as a heat island increasing local temperature, in order to help prevent co2 being generated elsewhere in the generation system to cool the atmosphere elsewhere? Seems a bit mad to me, and I'm not surprised the residents are pissed off.
It's an artificial pine plantation.. It was planted for lumber

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#494 Post by claybro » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:12 pm

Goodsy wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:08 pm
claybro wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:04 pm
So now we are proposing to cut down trees, which absorb co2 and cool the surrounding air, in order to put in a solar farm, which will act as a heat island increasing local temperature, in order to help prevent co2 being generated elsewhere in the generation system to cool the atmosphere elsewhere? Seems a bit mad to me, and I'm not surprised the residents are pissed off.
It's an artificial pine plantation.. It was planted for lumber
So are you suggesting that a managed forest does not act like any other forest in absorbing co2 and cooling the local surrounds? Managed or natural, what difference does that make?

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#495 Post by NTRabbit » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:16 pm

claybro wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:12 pm
Goodsy wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:08 pm
claybro wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:04 pm
So now we are proposing to cut down trees, which absorb co2 and cool the surrounding air, in order to put in a solar farm, which will act as a heat island increasing local temperature, in order to help prevent co2 being generated elsewhere in the generation system to cool the atmosphere elsewhere? Seems a bit mad to me, and I'm not surprised the residents are pissed off.
It's an artificial pine plantation.. It was planted for lumber
So are you suggesting that a managed forest does not act like any other forest in absorbing co2 and cooling the local surrounds? Managed or natural, what difference does that make?
it's a forest that was designed to be cut down, the only issue is whether you think they should replace it with solar panels, or a native forest, once they cut down the current pine batch.

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