News & Discussion: O-Bahn

[rubberman]

All door entry is a relatively easy/cheap way to greatly speed up the Obahn, but having not used the Obahn for a while now, is anyone able to advise if there are barricades for Metro Card entry at the interchanges? This would surely be required to prevent fare evasion with all door boarding.

We don't do it for trams. It's rarely, if ever, done for buses in Europe, where they have high on the spot fines and lots of "Inspectors".

[claybro]

All door entry is a relatively easy/cheap way to greatly speed up the Obahn, but having not used the Obahn for a while now, is anyone able to advise if there are barricades for Metro Card entry at the interchanges? This would surely be required to prevent fare evasion with all door boarding.

We don't do it for trams. It's rarely, if ever, done for buses in Europe, where they have high on the spot fines and lots of "Inspectors".

Good point. I think though, policing of the Obahn is a much more difficult proposition than the tram, due to many more individual vehicles, covering multiple destinations. I do get that it would be mega expensive to barricade the interchanges as the platforms are at road level, and would require some sort of glass wall off of the platform edge, with doors lining up with the bus doors. (otherwise people will just enter via the bus roadway.) This is done at the busport here in Perth, and I think the one in Brisbane from memory.

[rubberman]

All door entry is a relatively easy/cheap way to greatly speed up the Obahn, but having not used the Obahn for a while now, is anyone able to advise if there are barricades for Metro Card entry at the interchanges? This would surely be required to prevent fare evasion with all door boarding.

We don't do it for trams. It's rarely, if ever, done for buses in Europe, where they have high on the spot fines and lots of "Inspectors".

Good point. I think though, policing of the Obahn is a much more difficult proposition than the tram, due to many more individual vehicles, covering multiple destinations. I do get that it would be mega expensive to barricade the interchanges as the platforms are at road level, and would require some sort of glass wall off of the platform edge, with doors lining up with the bus doors. (otherwise people will just enter via the bus roadway.) This is done at the busport here in Perth, and I think the one in Brisbane from memory.

That's so upstream of TTP. However, once on the O-Bahn, inspectors would be able to check everyone on the bus without free riders being able to slip off at intermediate stops before the inspector got to them. Basically, it means employing enough inspectors that free riders have a big risk of getting caught, rather than having the driver act as a turnstile. While the driver-as-turnstile model saves the cost of employing inspectors, it makes buses far slower to load, and that costs in terms of slower trips and greater road congestion in Grenfell Street, North Terrace and King William Street.

[Norman]

All door entry is a relatively easy/cheap way to greatly speed up the Obahn, but having not used the Obahn for a while now, is anyone able to advise if there are barricades for Metro Card entry at the interchanges? This would surely be required to prevent fare evasion with all door boarding.

At the moment there are no barriers, but I have sent them feedback that they should consider it. I suggest we all do the same and give them as much feedback as possible.

[Brucetiki]

All door entry is a relatively easy/cheap way to greatly speed up the Obahn, but having not used the Obahn for a while now, is anyone able to advise if there are barricades for Metro Card entry at the interchanges? This would surely be required to prevent fare evasion with all door boarding.

We don't do it for trams. It's rarely, if ever, done for buses in Europe, where they have high on the spot fines and lots of "Inspectors".

Good point. I think though, policing of the Obahn is a much more difficult proposition than the tram, due to many more individual vehicles, covering multiple destinations. I do get that it would be mega expensive to barricade the interchanges as the platforms are at road level, and would require some sort of glass wall off of the platform edge, with doors lining up with the bus doors. (otherwise people will just enter via the bus roadway.) This is done at the busport here in Perth, and I think the one in Brisbane from memory.

Yep the Myer Centre interchange in Brisbane has them.

[monotonehell]

I caught a peak period O-Bahn (C1) out to TTP last night for the first time in ages. Was quick, and surprisingly uncongested. There were no standing passengers. Although looking at the ;door to door; services we passed, they were more full. The track's still a bit "lumpy" on the outer half of the old part before Klemzig. I wonder if the tire placement hypothesis is correct?

[Kasey771]

Sorry not sorry that I find these debates boring.
I'm only here for updates on the O-Bahn tunnel. Now that the tunnel has its final ceiling piece in place... how soon until n the remediation of the disrupted parklands area begins?

[bits]

Sorry not sorry that I find these debates boring.

I don't think it really matters if you find it boring. The discussion is whatever the users discuss and the site owner allows.

[adelaide transport]

Sorry not sorry that I find these debates boring.
I'm only here for updates on the O-Bahn tunnel. Now that the tunnel has its final ceiling piece in place... how soon until n the remediation of the disrupted parklands area begins?

You will find timelines for the completion of parklands landscaping on the DPTI website.

[Norman]

For those who missed it before the debate...

The new flyover can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfy5l__ybV0

Here are some shots provided on the DPTI website:










There is also a schedule for the remaining works:

Operational
- Construction of centrally aligned priority bus lanes between Richmond Street and Hackney Road/Botanic Road intersection
- East Terrace realignment open to traffic and road surfacing completed
- Botanic Gardens car parks (final landscaping and lighting works expected to be completed late in the second quarter of 2017)
- Last sections of roof over the tunnel on Hackney Road installed

In progress till late second quarter of 2017
- New shared use pedestrian/cycle bridge across the River Torrens
- Hackney Bridge widening works
- Park Road widening and changes to the Hackney Road / Bundeys Road intersection for the outbound priority bus lane

Late second quarter of 2017
- Extension of the Plane Tree Drive U-turn slip lane
- Reopening of the Linear Park paths under Hackney Bridge

In progress till mid-2017
- Backfilling of tunnel within Rymill and Rundle Parks

Mid 2017
- Reinstatement of fountain near East Terrace

Mid 2017 till last quarter of 2017
- Eastern service road improvements including landscaping
- Construction of the Botanic Gardens Plaza located in front of the Tram Barn and Goodman Building on Hackney Road

In progress till third quarter of 2017
- Construction of the new shared use path between the River Torrens and Hackney Road /Botanic Road intersection
- Hackney Road rehabilitation works (road resurfacing) night works
- Tunnel civil construction

Early third quarter of 2017
- Implementation of the right turn restriction from Hackney Road to Park Terrace during peak times

Third quarter of 2017
- Construction of the outbound priority bus lane from just south of Richmond Street up to the Gilberton entry
- U-turn facility to be installed between the tunnel portal and the intersection of Hackney Road and Botanic Road
- Lifting of right turn restrictions at the intersection of Hackney Road / Botanic Road / North Terrace / Dequetteville Terrace and reinstatement of all lanes on Hackney Road and Dequetteville Terrace

Last quarter of 2017
- Installation of urban design elements for the portal, including landscaping

Last quarter of 2017
- East Terrace and Rundle Road rehabilitation and upgrade works

End of 2017
- Reinstatement of parking on the eastern side of Hackney Road and Dequetteville Terrace between north of Botanic Street and Little Rundle Street with peak period weekday restrictions
- Complete tunnel testing and commissioning
- Complete operational testing

[citywatcher]

Actually I meant against obahn. The improvements people keep mentioning would already have been built into a rail system which could be extended and only highlight obahns shortcomings. . People alighting at interchanges, higher density , feeder services , the problem of Grenfell st
...
Having to spend $160m on a tunnel
...
My point is sure the obahn is ok. I just think rail would have been better IN THE LONG RUN. We proposed in this city way back CITY METRO NEAPTR MATS ETC . I just feel we missed an opportunity. I don't want to see obahn dug up. We do have our work cut out now to make it work as well as is needed.

All of the things you mention as specific to the O-Bahn apply to rail as well. Most perceived advantages to rail are bolt-on features. Bolt-on features can be applied to a guided busway, an un-guided busway, or even a non-busway with a distinct route. Continuous off-track running is pretty much the only intrinsic benefit of the O-Bahn over rail. Rail's only real intrinsic benefits are economy through easy availability of rollingstock (popularity), and economy of scale when you need to move a lot of passengers along a linear path. This is where O-Bahn shines over rail on relatively short routes - like the N.E. Suburbs. And hence why rail would not have been better in the long run. The relative short run from the N.E. Suburbs would make transferring to a rail corridor very unattractive. More people would be in their cars and we would be talking about the need for a N.E. Freeway instead of a tunnel through the parklands.

As volume increases, ie. too many buses using the o-bahn and grenfell/currie streets, we will not be able to run all buses the whole way.

Based on what quantification? When the O-Bahn reaches its capacity, it is already near the top of light rail's capacity and time to consider heavy rail.

The only concern is the bottleneck of running back onto street. This can be addressed with more stops along Grenfell Street. The PTB are already looking into this with the plans to make Grenfell a PT only street.

Also not all routes will fill their own buses to capacity, leaving either some buses partly empty (wasted capacity) or people utilise these buses to then transfer or alight to take their car from interchanges (meaning people may not be able to get on their own bus (route).

Not all routes need to run all the way. Not all routes need to run all the way, all the time. The current paradigm is to only run lower patronised routes during those times when they are more patronised. For example; the 556, 557 and 559 buses are run as feeders at all times, except in the morning peak, when the run into the city direct, and the afternoon peak, when they run out of the city direct.

Additionally, an aim (for economy) is to run buses at near capacity as often as possible, but it's not always necessary or possible to do so. The main aim is to encourage people out of their cars during peak periods. So all this talk of capacity only really applies to the 2 or 3 hours at each end of the working day.

Dedicated o-bahn only buses could be multi sectioned with much greater capacity, but could not navigate suburban street networks. They would require a greater turning around area, ie. light sq.

The need for greater capacity vehicles assumes that we have a great quantity of transferring passengers. If we have a great number of transferring passengers, then the system is failing. Remember: transfers incur a 19 minute perceived delay, thus encouraging people to jump in their cars. As soon as you are devising elements of a system for transfers on a short route, you need to ask yourself if you're doing the right thing.

Such higher capacity vehicles are used on the Bogota Busway. Which isn't guided, but operates in dedicated corridors down very straight routes. They work for Bogota, but require specialised infrastructure for loading and unloading as well as the fairly straight routes. This is before considering the engineering challenges of running double bendies on a guided busway.

You say this as if it is fact but it is actually just your opinion

Sent from my GT-S7275T using Tapatalk

[monotonehell]

You say this as if it is fact but it is actually just your opinion

You want references? It's an opinion formed from reading a lot of academically published studies. I've mentioned a few throughout this thread.

[citywatcher]

These studies also are just someones opinion

Sent from my GT-S7275T using Tapatalk

[rubberman]

These studies also are just someones opinion

Sent from my GT-S7275T using Tapatalk

So, what's your point? In that case, everything is an "opinion". Fair enough, if that's how you want to define something. 2+2=4 is only an "opinion" too in that case.

Having said that, it then comes down to whether the arguments presented make sense. Monotone has made his case. So, over to you.

Otherwise, if he makes a case, and you do not, I guess people might draw their own conclusions based on the information he has provided...and your reluctance to provide a counter-argument.

PS. Your real name isn't Donald is it?

[citywatcher]

As you are all so sure of yourselves and academically minded I'll point you to research papers that propose rail which of course are also just opinions and you have no doubt all researched them. Donald ay ? 2+ 2 = 4 ay.?
Uneducated rhetoric .

Sent from my GT-S7275T using Tapatalk