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Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:48 am
by Nathan
I've said this before with the train system — you do both. Have a local service that does all stops, and an express service that only serves larger stations. Have one or two large stations (depending on the length of the line) which double the number of tracks, and have services timed for easy transfer between the two (ie. local service comes in on platform one, then express service arrives on platform two. People transfer, express service leaves, then local service leaves). Larger stations get serviced more frequently and with faster services, all stops remain accessible, and even those at a local stop can still travel express for part of their journey if they transfer.

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Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:50 am
by Mpol03
You could certainly do that with Port Rd. Get rid of the stations from Bowden to Woodville, making it an express, and have the O-Bahn down Port Rd with stations that were once on the Outer Harbour line. :?:

Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:04 am
by Norman
Nathan wrote:I've said this before with the train system — you do both. Have a local service that does all stops, and an express service that only serves larger stations. Have one or two large stations (depending on the length of the line) which double the number of tracks, and have services timed for easy transfer between the two (ie. local service comes in on platform one, then express service arrives on platform two. People transfer, express service leaves, then local service leaves). Larger stations get serviced more frequently and with faster services, all stops remain accessible, and even those at a local stop can still travel express for part of their journey if they transfer.

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I absolutely agree with you, Nathan. This works extremely well in Japan.

I even made a mock up timetable for the Seaford Line that would use this system.

https://1drv.ms/b/s!Aka2NTSlJsWKs4FZ3tBQfcD8VQNxbw

Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:06 am
by Llessur2002
Mpol03 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 9:50 am
You could certainly do that with Port Rd. Get rid of the stations from Bowden to Woodville, making it an express, and have the O-Bahn down Port Rd with stations that were once on the Outer Harbour line. :?:
What happens when the buses reach the Entertainment Centre tram stop and get stuck in the city-bound traffic?

Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:19 am
by Mpol03
MONORAIL!

Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:26 am
by claybro
Mpol03 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 9:50 am
You could certainly do that with Port Rd. Get rid of the stations from Bowden to Woodville, making it an express, and have the O-Bahn down Port Rd with stations that were once on the Outer Harbour line
you have seen what an Obahn track looks like right? Do you think people would really accept two large concrete tracks down the middle of Port road? You do realise that vehicles cant cross Obahn tracks, so the whole track has to be grade separated at every crossing, unlike tram tracks that can be laid into the road surface.
Mpol03 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 9:43 am
I have no real idea about the economics of extending an O-Bahn system over the tram system but if patronage and demand for busses are higher then why don't we look at O-Bahn extensions as an option? I definitely fee in other areas trams would be much more suitable but we do have a fair few wide main roads.
That is like saying patronage of private vehicles is higher so lets just use more cars. Just because more people currently use buses, doesn't mean they are the best option. Trams and trains carry many more people per vehicle, can be coupled for extra capacity if required using no additional track time and require less maintenance.
The Obahn works well in a low density, sprawling suburban environment where the buses can leave the track to multiple and changing destinations. But not so suitable in high density, high volume fixed routes, which the Northwestern suburbs are on the way to becoming, and already serviced by rail.

Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:42 am
by Nathan
Norman wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:04 am
I absolutely agree with you, Nathan. This works extremely well in Japan.
That's exactly where I got it from. I'm very familiar with the Chuo line, and hopping between the rapid and commuter/special rapid at Mitaka. :wink:

Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:50 am
by rubberman
Llessur2002 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:06 am
Mpol03 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 9:50 am
You could certainly do that with Port Rd. Get rid of the stations from Bowden to Woodville, making it an express, and have the O-Bahn down Port Rd with stations that were once on the Outer Harbour line. :?:
What happens when the buses reach the Entertainment Centre tram stop and get stuck in the city-bound traffic?

Run them on the tram tracks. The tram lane is wide enough, and even at peak hours there's 7 minutes between trams, so there's capacity. In fact we could do it right now with Port Adelaide and Grange Road buses. Save 5-10 minutes at least, plus get buses out of the way of motorists.

Oh wait! Centre island stops. Can't work. As you were.

Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 11:01 am
by claybro
rubberman wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:50 am
Llessur2002 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:06 am
Mpol03 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 9:50 am
You could certainly do that with Port Rd. Get rid of the stations from Bowden to Woodville, making it an express, and have the O-Bahn down Port Rd with stations that were once on the Outer Harbour line. :?:
What happens when the buses reach the Entertainment Centre tram stop and get stuck in the city-bound traffic?

Run them on the tram tracks. The tram lane is wide enough, and even at peak hours there's 7 minutes between trams, so there's capacity. In fact we could do it right now with Port Adelaide and Grange Road buses. Save 5-10 minutes at least, plus get buses out of the way of motorists.

Oh wait! Centre island stops. Can't work. As you were.
Cant run an Obahn track down the centre of Port Road without it being elevated the whole way. The centre tram stops are the least of the problems. Never going to happen.

Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:47 pm
by SBD
claybro wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 11:01 am
rubberman wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:50 am
Llessur2002 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:06 am


What happens when the buses reach the Entertainment Centre tram stop and get stuck in the city-bound traffic?

Run them on the tram tracks. The tram lane is wide enough, and even at peak hours there's 7 minutes between trams, so there's capacity. In fact we could do it right now with Port Adelaide and Grange Road buses. Save 5-10 minutes at least, plus get buses out of the way of motorists.

Oh wait! Centre island stops. Can't work. As you were.
Cant run an Obahn track down the centre of Port Road without it being elevated the whole way. The centre tram stops are the least of the problems. Never going to happen.
A Port Road Median O-Bahn could be lowered instead of elevated much of the way except crossing the Torrens and North-South Motorway (both already have a prior claim on below-street-level). I'm not sure if O-Bahn and tram tracks can converge to share the median over the railway bridge (ban right turns in/out of Gaol Road)?

What could be and what should be do not always align. I don't want to be quoted as saying there should be an O-bahn track down the middle of Port Road.

Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:56 pm
by Brucetiki
Mpol03 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:19 am
MONORAIL!
What about us braindead slobs?

Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 12:58 pm
by Brucetiki
claybro wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:26 am
Mpol03 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 9:50 am
You could certainly do that with Port Rd. Get rid of the stations from Bowden to Woodville, making it an express, and have the O-Bahn down Port Rd with stations that were once on the Outer Harbour line
you have seen what an Obahn track looks like right? Do you think people would really accept two large concrete tracks down the middle of Port road? You do realise that vehicles cant cross Obahn tracks, so the whole track has to be grade separated at every crossing, unlike tram tracks that can be laid into the road surface.
You could have at grade, untracked intersections, similar to how the UK system operates. Priority lights are then given to the buses to help keep the service efficient.

Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:37 pm
by claybro
What you are all describing are work arounds to accomodate bloody great concrete tracks down the middle of Port Road. Given tram tracks can be laid flat into any surface - even grass as is the case in Vic Sq. and trams can carry more passengers, in longer vehicles, I just don't get the desire to have an Obahn on Port Road, or anywhere else for that matter.

Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 2:09 pm
by rubberman
claybro wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 1:37 pm
What you are all describing are work arounds to accomodate bloody great concrete tracks down the middle of Port Road. Given tram tracks can be laid flat into any surface - even grass as is the case in Vic Sq. and trams can carry more passengers, in longer vehicles, I just don't get the desire to have an Obahn on Port Road, or anywhere else for that matter.
Well, yes. If someone wanted to go to all that trouble, they might as well just put in a tramway.

Re: News & Discussion: O-Bahn

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 2:43 pm
by Eurostar
A simple tway style busway could be a suitable replacement for the north east busway. To extend to Golden Grove why not use one of the sides of the median strip for the tway.