News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#616 Post by Eurostar » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:34 pm

Salisbury Council should just buy up the shops on Old John Street, demolish them, widen the road so buses can use John Street

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#617 Post by PeFe » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:03 am

Adelaide bus contracts are up for tender and the SA government seem intent on cutting services and forcing commuters to transfer modes to finish their journeys.........There is actually so little detail in the proposal I will wait for something more concrete to discuss.

Thus was in the 'Tiser a couple of days ago (behind the pay wall)
Overhaul aims to boost Adelaide public transport usage with bus, tram, train integration

Matt Smith, The Advertiser
April 19, 2019 7:08pm

Bus passengers will be forced to transfer to trains and trams under a proposed public transport overhaul aimed at reversing declining patronage and getting commuters to their destination faster.

The State Government will today release the first of two tenders for operation of the metropolitan bus system.

A key part of the lucrative contracts — expected to cost taxpayers $1.5 billion over eight years — would be that operators work within a system whereby commuters would be forced to hop between buses, trains and trams to speed-up travel times.

This ambitious and likely contentious plan is being considered by the Government’s new South Australian Public Transport Authority, which has been asked to draw upon experience of other cities where commuters commonly use multiple modes of transport for one trip.

Transport Minister Stephan Knoll told The Advertiser the tender was the “single biggest lever” the Government had to pull to provide better public transport.

“Over the last three years we’ve seen a decline in bus patronage across our network,” Mr Knoll, pictured, said.

“At around 8 per cent, Adelaide has one of the lowest rates of public transport usage in the country and the highest percentage of people who choose to drive to work of any capital city.

“We also have the worst level of integration between the different modes of public transport.”

Transport department figures show there were 49.6 million paid bus trips last financial year, down 0.55 per cent on a year earlier and 1.16 per cent on 2015-16. The department said total paid public transport patronage had declined by 1.34 per cent between 2016-17 and 2017-18, but it was unable to provide a figure for the total number of trips.

Mr Knoll said only “incremental” changes had been made to the public transport network over the past 20 years.

“I think it’s fair to say that we’re not getting the results we want with respect to customer satisfaction and patronage levels,” he said.

The successful company, or companies, would have to offer more frequent and faster services and scrap poorly used routes.

They would also have to be responsive to social and technological changes and reduce the cost of delivering services.

The first tender will service the eastern and western suburbs, the O-Bahn and the Adelaide Hills. The second tender, to be released in July, will cover the rest of metropolitan Adelaide.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#618 Post by SBD » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:19 am

"...forced to hop..." is presumably not intended to just test the balance of commuters.

Those of us who live in outer suburbs and use public transport to get to the city often already use two modes of transport - car or bus to a railway station and then a train in to the city. I live one side of the railway line and work the other side. I drive to work as walk-bus-train-bus-walk makes my 20-minute commute into around 2 hours with limited services. Most journeys that start and end outside the northern part of the CBD in different directions probably require a connection (if North Terrace to Currie Street counts as a connection between train and bus).

I wonder what percentage of commuters walk from home to their PT, and walk from the same vehicle to their place of work now. Feeder buses to the rail network make sense.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#619 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:24 am

So are services being cut in net or rerouted? The article doesn't say whether there will be fewer buses scheduled in total or whether those buses will be scheduled to fewer routes.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#620 Post by Brucetiki » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:29 am

I saw the press release from Knoll (or however he's spelling/pronouncing his name this week), and it seemed truly bizarre.

As minister he's made a number of cuts to services, yet somehow it's the operator's fault patronage is down. The operators merely drive the buses - it's up to Adelaide Metro (and whoever they report to these days) to market the services. In fact, the current operators have been hamstrung into expanding services (such as when the J1 had to be cut from Elizabeth-Airport to City-Airport due to the area being served by different service providers). So his response is to get new operators in - and we have a history of new companies making an absolute mess of the transition (Serco and Light City Buses spring to mind). What's to say whoever the new mobs that will operate the bus won't cause a bigger mess, or be curtailed by the zones they get into providing improved services.

Also, when the Minister cuts services, and patronage drops further, is he just going to tear up the tenders and call for new operators?

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#621 Post by Waewick » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:02 am

SBD wrote:"...forced to hop..." is presumably not intended to just test the balance of commuters.

Those of us who live in outer suburbs and use public transport to get to the city often already use two modes of transport - car or bus to a railway station and then a train in to the city. I live one side of the railway line and work the other side. I drive to work as walk-bus-train-bus-walk makes my 20-minute commute into around 2 hours with limited services. Most journeys that start and end outside the northern part of the CBD in different directions probably require a connection (if North Terrace to Currie Street counts as a connection between train and bus).

I wonder what percentage of commuters walk from home to their PT, and walk from the same vehicle to their place of work now. Feeder buses to the rail network make sense.
I couldn't work out if it was a bad idea, a poorly thought out idea or just a crap article.

It makes no sense what the proposal is, surely a bit more detail is needed before a tender is awarded? I mean how many changes do we need?

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#622 Post by TorrensSA » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:29 am

Having certain routes terminate at train stations could work, especially on the Gawler and Seaford lines. Why do we need buses like the 228 heading all the way into the CBD. What you need to do is increase the frequency of the trains at the connecting stations - 10 min frequency would be good. I doubt the idea would work on Outer Harbor and Belair lines, frequency and demand is not warranted to provide a 10 min frequency. But this being Adelaide it will be done half arsed and you will get a 228 / 224 loop terminating at Mawson / Smithfield at night to connect with a half hourly train, this is not good enough, a 20 min service could work at nights. Minimal routes would be better like a Mawson to Smithfield loop via everywhere at a high frequency. It links into Mawson, Parafield, Salisbury, Elizabeth and Smithfield stations. It would be like a smart bus type service. Hi frequency trains and a high frequency Northern Loop Smartbus. I doubt Adelaide could do this though, it's too hard to make a proper train service.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#623 Post by SBD » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:21 pm

TorrensSA wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:29 am
Having certain routes terminate at train stations could work, especially on the Gawler and Seaford lines. Why do we need buses like the 228 heading all the way into the CBD. What you need to do is increase the frequency of the trains at the connecting stations - 10 min frequency would be good. I doubt the idea would work on Outer Harbor and Belair lines, frequency and demand is not warranted to provide a 10 min frequency. But this being Adelaide it will be done half arsed and you will get a 228 / 224 loop terminating at Mawson / Smithfield at night to connect with a half hourly train, this is not good enough, a 20 min service could work at nights. Minimal routes would be better like a Mawson to Smithfield loop via everywhere at a high frequency. It links into Mawson, Parafield, Salisbury, Elizabeth and Smithfield stations. It would be like a smart bus type service. Hi frequency trains and a high frequency Northern Loop Smartbus. I doubt Adelaide could do this though, it's too hard to make a proper train service.
I'm not even sure the bus loops should connect to the train north-south.

How about mixing the routes differently. There's already a Gawler-Hewitt-Willaston loop. Have another one stopping twice at Smithfield station serving Angle Vale-Munno Para West-Andrews Farm-Smithfield Plains-Munno Para-Smithfield station/shops-Blakeview-Craigmore-Elizabeth Downs. Another one serving Davoren Park-Edinburgh North-Elizabeth North-Elizabeth Station and shops-Elizabeth South/Grove/Vale/East/Park-Hillbank. Then a loop focused on Salisbury and one focused on Mawson Lakes.

This would provide single-vehicle service between the east and west sides of the railway line, which is rarely possible now.

For the larger or sparser parts of the loops, run alternate buses on slightly different routes like 441 and 442 do different paths through Craigmore and Blakeview, and 443 is a compromise route for lower-traffic times. If someone lives/works/shops on the common parts of the route, they get higher frequency, and much the same for the home-bound part if it's nice weather and the passenger can walk a little further from the other path.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#624 Post by TorrensSA » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:44 pm

Smaller loops are good but wont have the patronage to warrant a bus every 10mins. The giant loop I mentioned Mawson to Smithfield is probably too big, another option would be a Smithfield to Salisbury Loop and a Salisbury -Salisbury East - Mawson - Salisbury West - Salisbury loop. Whatever way it goes trains need to run every 10min so connections don't matter too much.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#625 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:46 pm

Straight lines are generally better than loops because people don't need to travel in circles. East-west bus routes in the northern suburbs that connect with the railway stations will be great.

This is another reason to re-nationalise the buses. The bus operators have no incentive to integrate themselves with other forms to public transport. Sure, it's up to Adelaide Metro to decide the routes, but the private operators lobby the government to give as much of the network to themselves.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#626 Post by cricketworldcup » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:57 pm

This is completely waste of money and money, Does the Council have an idea of how many 'normal' buses can buy instead?
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#627 Post by Eurostar » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:00 pm

Merge the 248, 640, 645 and 646 into one route

Plympton Tram Stop to Marino via Morphett Road, Marion Centre, Diagonal Road, Braeside Avenue, Davenport Terrace and Marino

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#628 Post by SBD » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:50 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:46 pm
Straight lines are generally better than loops because people don't need to travel in circles. East-west bus routes in the northern suburbs that connect with the railway stations will be great.

This is another reason to re-nationalise the buses. The bus operators have no incentive to integrate themselves with other forms to public transport. Sure, it's up to Adelaide Metro to decide the routes, but the private operators lobby the government to give as much of the network to themselves.
The bus has to do "loops", whether it is out-and-back on the same road, or out on one and back on the next. My main point was to have the railway station in the middle of each route, rather than the end, so that people can catch one bus across the railway without having to wait at a railway station to catch another bus. Long "loops" probably need to either be same-road, or have buses going both ways, as people won't want to catch a bus in exactly the wrong direction. The routes that go from one railway station to another pretty much run empty across the middle after dropping the passengers from one station, before picking up passengers for the other.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#629 Post by [Shuz] » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:52 am

A couple of routes that I can think of that could be rationalised is to scrap the 150 to Port Adelaide, given it is basically a duplication of the train line, and have the 333 route take over the 150 route between Port Adelaide and Outer Harbour in a loop.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#630 Post by Eurostar » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:59 am

[Shuz] wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:52 am
A couple of routes that I can think of that could be rationalised is to scrap the 150 to Port Adelaide, given it is basically a duplication of the train line, and have the 333 route take over the 150 route between Port Adelaide and Outer Harbour in a loop.
Close the Outer Harbor Line and Grange Line. Extend the AEC Tramline along Port Road to Port Adelaide. Maybe have a branch line to West Lakes.
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