News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

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claybro
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#571 Post by claybro » Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:44 pm

Nathan wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:10 pm
Out of curiosity, say buses did use the tram corridor on Port Rd, how would they merge across from the left of the road into the middle and vice versa? Same as the messy O-Bahn arrangement on heading toward the tunnel on Hackney Rd?
Good question. I thought the bus could enter the intersection with its "B" priority light and cross into the tram right of way, but then realised the bus would have to stop in its little lane at the intersection and wait for the next change of lights for this to be activated. This would then hold the bus up, and be counter productive to its free right of way ie no real time saving. Also presumably at present the tram is free to go also when the bus has priority , but the tram would have to wait for the bus. It is a bit messy.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#572 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:48 pm

Eurostar wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:32 pm
The bus lane on Anzac Highway was a good idea. The Government should look into replicating it on other roads.

- Port Road between Hindmarsh and RAH
- Dequetteville Terrace between Rundle Road and Brittania Roundabout
- Glen Osmond Road between South Terrace and Greenhill Road
We shouldn't be running so many buses parallel to the tram line in the first place. Most of those routes should terminate at the closest tram stop or railway station.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#573 Post by Nathan » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:28 pm

claybro wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:44 pm
Nathan wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:10 pm
Out of curiosity, say buses did use the tram corridor on Port Rd, how would they merge across from the left of the road into the middle and vice versa? Same as the messy O-Bahn arrangement on heading toward the tunnel on Hackney Rd?
Good question. I thought the bus could enter the intersection with its "B" priority light and cross into the tram right of way, but then realised the bus would have to stop in its little lane at the intersection and wait for the next change of lights for this to be activated. This would then hold the bus up, and be counter productive to its free right of way ie no real time saving. Also presumably at present the tram is free to go also when the bus has priority , but the tram would have to wait for the bus. It is a bit messy.
Exactly. I wonder then if the reason then for the concreted track rather than open ballast was because they were anticipating the NRAH and that it would be able to take more than just the occasional emergency vehicle. Then again, I'm probably giving someone too much credit.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#574 Post by rubberman » Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:47 am

Nathan wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:10 pm
Out of curiosity, say buses did use the tram corridor on Port Rd, how would they merge across from the left of the road into the middle and vice versa? Same as the messy O-Bahn arrangement on heading toward the tunnel on Hackney Rd?
I assume they would use the tram stops, so wouldn't need to weave and merge.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#575 Post by Nathan » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:15 am

rubberman wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:47 am
Nathan wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:10 pm
Out of curiosity, say buses did use the tram corridor on Port Rd, how would they merge across from the left of the road into the middle and vice versa? Same as the messy O-Bahn arrangement on heading toward the tunnel on Hackney Rd?
I assume they would use the tram stops, so wouldn't need to weave and merge.
Obviously. I was thinking more about entering the and exiting the tram corridor at the ends.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#576 Post by Aidan » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:25 am

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Eurostar wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:32 pm
The bus lane on Anzac Highway was a good idea. The Government should look into replicating it on other roads.

- Port Road between Hindmarsh and RAH
- Dequetteville Terrace between Rundle Road and Brittania Roundabout
- Glen Osmond Road between South Terrace and Greenhill Road
How congested are those routes? Anzac Highway effectively ends in a convergence (with Goodwood Road) so there is a significant bottleneck, whereas the ends of your examples are more divergent.
We shouldn't be running so many buses parallel to the tram line in the first place. Most of those routes should terminate at the closest tram stop or railway station.
WRONG! The buses need to run where the passengers want to go. When the trains and trams go where the passengers want to go, some more of the outer suburban buses should be able to avoid running into the City. But even then, the inner suburban routes shouldn't avoid the biggest destination!
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#577 Post by Aidan » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:32 am

rubberman wrote:
Nathan wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:10 pm
Out of curiosity, say buses did use the tram corridor on Port Rd, how would they merge across from the left of the road into the middle and vice versa? Same as the messy O-Bahn arrangement on heading toward the tunnel on Hackney Rd?
I assume they would use the tram stops, so wouldn't need to weave and merge.
Most of our tram stops have platforms on the right, whereas the buses all have doors on the left. Not that we'd want buses clogging up our tramways anyway.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#578 Post by Eurostar » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:58 am

How congested are those routes? Anzac Highway effectively ends in a convergence (with Goodwood Road) so there is a significant bottleneck, whereas the ends of your examples are more divergent.
Port Road can be bad for traffic jams during peak hours and you got multiple bus services sharing the corridor I.e. 110, 112, 117, 118, 150, 157, 157X, 286, 288.
A bus lane will reduce delays for bus commuters.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#579 Post by rubberman » Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:42 am

Aidan wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:32 am
rubberman wrote:
Nathan wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:10 pm
Out of curiosity, say buses did use the tram corridor on Port Rd, how would they merge across from the left of the road into the middle and vice versa? Same as the messy O-Bahn arrangement on heading toward the tunnel on Hackney Rd?
I assume they would use the tram stops, so wouldn't need to weave and merge.
Most of our tram stops have platforms on the right, whereas the buses all have doors on the left. Not that we'd want buses clogging up our tramways anyway.
Amateur design and poor planning are no reason for taking an extra lane off motorists. Redo the tram stops so they can take buses, not take a lane off motorists because the tram corridor design was faulty. BTW, that could be achieved by repairing the King William Street South track, rather than replacing it, as is done in Melbourne in identical situations. Joints rewelded, corrugations ground off by grinder, loose rail sections repacked with grout and reconcreted. Cheap and quick, with no disturbance to traffic and shops because it can be done overnight.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#580 Post by Llessur2002 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:40 pm

I can't see how Port Road buses (and there are a lot) can use the tram corridor and stops without negatively impacting the running of trams - especially if frequencies increase in future and/or the line is extended to Outer Harbor, Grange Road, West lakes (delete as applicable).

The tram to the city is slow enough already without having to sit behind buses - it is already noticeably slower between the nRAH and the Railway Station with trams servicing two routes running on the same track.

Slow down the trams and clog their reserved corridor with buses and that's half of the attraction of trams gone.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#581 Post by rubberman » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:52 am

Llessur2002 wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:40 pm
I can't see how Port Road buses (and there are a lot) can use the tram corridor and stops without negatively impacting the running of trams - especially if frequencies increase in future and/or the line is extended to Outer Harbor, Grange Road, West lakes (delete as applicable).

The tram to the city is slow enough already without having to sit behind buses - it is already noticeably slower between the nRAH and the Railway Station with trams servicing two routes running on the same track.

Slow down the trams and clog their reserved corridor with buses and that's half of the attraction of trams gone.
I find it quite sad when people say Adelaide can't do things that other cities manage quite easily. Munich, Krakow, Warsaw, Ostrava all do this with far busier tram services. Apparently Adelaide can't work it out.

I'm not sure what the source of this inferiority complex is. Sure, we may not have thought of it first, but if these other cities can do it, I am sure Adelaide can. Let's not think of oursrlves as less capable than others. If necessary, send our people over to these places, or get some of their people to come as consultants.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#582 Post by Eurostar » Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:49 pm

In my opinion its time King William Street between North Terrace and Victoria Square be turned into a transit mall

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#583 Post by SBD » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:33 pm

Eurostar wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:49 pm
In my opinion its time King William Street between North Terrace and Victoria Square be turned into a transit mall
Some major new traffic engineering would be required for that! Main North Road and Prospect Road feed straight into O'Connell Street, and some time in history King William Road was cut across the southern bit of North Adelaide to feed them onto King William Street.

Even allowing for the assumption that King William Street should not be regarded as a shortest path between Prospect/Medindie and Wayville/Unley, where would you propose to move traffic that usually traverses that section with an origin or destination in the City of Adelaide? Morphett Street/Montefiore Road/Ward Street and Frome Street/Frome Road/Lefevre Terrace routes would both need some fairly serious upgrades that would destroy their character even further.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#584 Post by claybro » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:20 am

SBD wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:33 pm
Eurostar wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:49 pm
In my opinion its time King William Street between North Terrace and Victoria Square be turned into a transit mall
Some major new traffic engineering would be required for that! Main North Road and Prospect Road feed straight into O'Connell Street, and some time in history King William Road was cut across the southern bit of North Adelaide to feed them onto King William Street.

Even allowing for the assumption that King William Street should not be regarded as a shortest path between Prospect/Medindie and Wayville/Unley, where would you propose to move traffic that usually traverses that section with an origin or destination in the City of Adelaide? Morphett Street/Montefiore Road/Ward Street and Frome Street/Frome Road/Lefevre Terrace routes would both need some fairly serious upgrades that would destroy their character even further.
Even now, most of the traffic in KWS does not need to be there. Most major cities in the world have taken serious measures to prevent private vehicles entering the heart of their CBD's. Adelaides problem is the lack of cohesive inner ring routes. You are quite right, that Main North road almost funnels traffic directly into KWS, and this should not be the case. The Southern end of KWS demonstrates this perfectly, as its suburban extension peters out into a dead end a few kilometres out of the city, rather than continue as a major arterial road, and therefore the South end of KWS is usually quiet.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

#585 Post by SBD » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:45 pm

The southern feeder roads lead primarily to Pulteney Street and West Terrace, neither of which continue directly across the Torrens. The Adelaide Bridge on King William Road is the obvious route from the northern suburbs into the city centre, and has been for over 100 years since KWR and O'Connell Street were lined up in front of the cathedral, and reinforced by Bonython Hall being strategically positioned to prevent Pulteney Street continuing to North Adelaide.

The goal of calming traffic in northern King WIlliam Street might be achieved without actually banning it by re-doing the North Adelaide routes to feed into the Montefiore and Frome Road bridges. This would also reduce traffic on O'Connell Street.

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